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 #1447749


WT NolaN
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 Substraite

I wish people would make sand or some other substraite that would not impact your lizzard.I know alot of yall use that carpet stuff but it dosent look natural at all.
09/17/07  11:29pm

 #1448661


Jakemyster44
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   Message To: WT NolaN   In reference to Message Id: 1447749


 Substraite

I agree with you..... sorta. THe green retile carpet does look quite fake, but there is a brown type out too, sure its not really really realilstic but its alot better in my opinion. Theres also slate with i dont think looks natural. I agree with you completly on wishing there was a substrate that would not impact them. I used to be set on sand but eventualy i realized for the sake of the lizard to switch. Your post gave me an idea (witch may sond completly stupid to you, or not make any sence at all.) : theres like a magnet under the cage and then theres some sand tha t isnt really sand but is magnetic too, so it stics really strong and cant be ingested. This even sounds stupid o me now that i think of it, but just putting that out there.
09/18/07  09:57pm

 #1448833


WT NolaN
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   Message To: Jakemyster44   In reference to Message Id: 1448661


 Substraite

Sell it takes ideas to invent stuff.
09/18/07  11:59pm

 #1448834


WT NolaN
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   Message To: Jakemyster44   In reference to Message Id: 1448661


 Substraite

Well it takes ideas to invent stuff.
09/18/07  11:59pm

 #1449607


BAMF3321
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   Message To: WT NolaN   In reference to Message Id: 1448834


 Substraite

I don’t see why sand is so bad, what do they walk around on in the wild? I doubt that they had little carpet patches out in the desert. I just don’t get what makes the sand so "dangerous"
09/19/07  07:00pm

 #1449921


WT NolaN
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   Message To: BAMF3321   In reference to Message Id: 1449607


 Substraite

exactly
09/19/07  09:58pm

 #1449992


KrazyKelli
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   Message To: WT NolaN   In reference to Message Id: 1447749


 Substraite

The problem is not ’I never see lizards getting impacted in the wild!’. It’s ’Do the lizards I own live on sand in the wild?’. Not all desert-living lizards live on sand as not all deserts are made of sand. Some desert-living lizards (like the sandfish and dune gecko) have to live on sand in order to be comfortable and can do so in an enclosed environment. The problem lies in lizards like the leopard gecko, which live in an arid environment, but tend to frequent rocky regions and dig into hard-packed clay. People think arid is desert sand everywhere and this obviously isn’t the case.

Another problem is captivity. An arid lizard in the wild (that live a small fraction compared to lizards in captivity) have to deal with hiding from or evading the hot sun or die from it. They have to stay ever-watchful for predators or get eaten. They have to find water to drink and insects to eat, which can be sparse. They have to establish and control territories and fight off others of their own species. Females need to contain part of their time while gravid for eggs and laying. What does a captive lizard have to worry about? No predators will come to eat them (aside from humans, which some lizards can learn to tolerate), and we take care of their other needs to they don’t have to. So what does that leave a lizard to do? Eat, sleep, sleep... um... Climb up on that log. Sleep. Hide. Eat and get filled up without having to hunt. Move to the other side of the tank to thermoregulate. It’s no small wonder that some if not all lizards would escape if they had the chance. And that they would, usually from age or improper keeping due to the owner, ingest the substrate if it’s improper - even if it’s in small quantities from checking out their surroundings with their tongue.

Now I’m once again not saying that all lizards, even all terrestrial lizards, will eat their substrate. But it can happen with certain species like the leopard gecko and bearded dragon. If they’re under a year old, they will taste check their surroundings far more frequently and sometimes eat more ravenously. Some of these lizards, as adults, can be kept on the substrate if it’s correct for them and their husbandry is up to par (they get their vitamins and calcium, etc).

At the same time, the type of substrate used is the cause. This is especially the case with Calci and Vita sand. The problem with ingestion of this is more the fact that you’re putting the lizard on something that can clog their systems with a large flag saying, "You can eat the ground for calcium intake, you reptile that I own!" They will look at the ground as an edible source and, of course, eat it. Then the impaction happens. Other brands of substrate, when eaten, can cause more harm than others. Lizard Litter and ground wallnut shells are like shards of glass when put in the system of a lizard, for example. It’s up to the owner to research on what their selected reptile lives on in the wild, to do the research to see if there it a risk of impaction in captivity, and if it’s all safe and clear to try it out, to research the substrates that can be alright. I know of many safe substrates used for different lizards. Sifted playsand is fine-grained and good for sand-dwelling lizards. Bed a Beast and Peatmoss are great for humid lizards. There’s also cypress mulch, non-fertilized potting soil, junglemix, and such. Completely depends on the lizard. Sometimes you need to mix substrates to attain the proper bedding (some people mix non-fertilized potting soil with sifted playsand to pack the ground down better, as well as add rough stone/beachrock to give the substrate some harder texture in places for the leopard gecko.)



09/19/07  10:39pm

 #1450160


WT NolaN
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   Message To: KrazyKelli   In reference to Message Id: 1449992


 Substraite

Thanks that gave me a clear understanding ,what substraite do you suggest for leos.
09/20/07  12:45am

 #1450224


KrazyKelli
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   Message To: WT NolaN   In reference to Message Id: 1450160


 Substraite

Well.. Semi-clear understanding. I rambled a bit in the post as well.

Leos are one of the lizards that end up getting impaction. The hatchlings and juvis have to be kept on something solid such as papertowel, newspaper, slate, tile, non-adhesive shelfliner, and repticarpet. You could also get creative and use other means of solidity. A member on the Leo forum used cut up cat litter trays and (I think) plaster to make a realistic, multi layered, safe setting. For the humid hide you can use spagnum moss, bed a beast, papertowel, or something that retains humidity. If the leo looks like they’re trying to eat what’s in the humid hide, then stick with papertowels or spagnum moss.

For adults, provided you know what to look for concerning signs of impaction, you can use the same as before, and you can also use sifted playground sand with a bit of safe dirt (ie, non-fertilized potting soil) mixed in. I can’t recall the mixing ratio, it’s best to ask it on the leo forum. I recommend putting slabs of concrete, beachrock, or something generally smooth and flat in the substrate mixture to balance things out as well as give the leo something to burrow around. The worry with soil in the sand is that it will raise the humidity. So long as the humidity in the tank is generally around 30% or lower, you should be fine. Keep in mind that this will never make up for what a leo subspecies would get in the wilds of Pakistan, but it should work.

There is also a type of excavator substrate that I can’t recall the name of that recently came on the market. It seems to be doing well with some curious leo owners and, supposedly, there’s a way to mold it and harden it to prevent ingestion (don’t quote me on that, I’ve yet to use the stuff.)



09/20/07  02:21am

 #1450226


KrazyKelli
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   Message To: KrazyKelli   In reference to Message Id: 1450224


 Substraite

correction:

’Put something smooth and flat in the substrate’ - I meant to say something rough and flat. How that escaped me is beyond knowledge. You will never find beach rock that is smooth. And by rock, I mean something large, not pebbles or small rocks. You can get beach rock at pet and aquarium stores for 1 to 3 pounds each. You can also get slabs of concrete or similar stone at garden supply and yard stores, depending on where you look and who you ask.
09/20/07  02:26am


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