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ClockworkMind WolfsRain SHvar KrazyKelli ClockworkMind SHvar KrazyKelli SHvar Beatles SHvar KrazyKelli Bps516 KrazyKelli Bps516 SHvar KrazyKelli Rya Tcmoore87 Derick Tiliquachub SHvar |
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ClockworkMind View Profile |
Reptic Zone Care Sheets
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| 08/18/05 08:19pm |
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WolfsRain View Profile |
Message To: ClockworkMind In reference to Message Id: 446621 Reptic Zone Care Sheets
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| 08/18/05 09:03pm |
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SHvar View Profile |
Message To: ClockworkMind In reference to Message Id: 446621 The problem is that noone hear keeps them..
Thats the problem with most of the caresheets here, most here have no experience or first hand knowedge in keeping what they wrote the sheet on. So you cant go by many caresheets you read. I read through many of the monitor caresheets and cringe at the care info given by most. Especially the beardie caresheets. I would probably be sickened to read too many further on lizard caresheets written here. Too many quoted from old outdated, junk petstore books also. You need to consider the source that it came from, their experience, their sucess with that animal, their long term track record, and not empty claims. This of course will make many mad because the caresheet was their attempt to showcase what they believe is right. The national zoo keeper that cared for them for years and produced the first captive breeding outside of Indonesia wrote a book on them and their care, but thats from experience, trial and error, and research. |
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| 08/19/05 12:49am |
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KrazyKelli View Profile |
Message To: SHvar In reference to Message Id: 447008 The problem is that noone hear keeps them..
That’s not the point the guy who made the thread is trying to get at. Who cares if noone can own one. It’d be funny just to see someone Put a caresheet down under the KomodoDragon area. Would probably be more of a joke if the person up for the challange puts ’this is a joke, you can’t have K.Dragons’ at the end of the caresheet, or makes the caresheet that impossible to care for that you know it’s a joke.... The only prob I see in this is trying to get the webmaster to approve the sheet. Anyway, I think it’s a good idea. Hopefully someone will take up the challange, do extensive research on Komodos, and try to make something up that’s not only ironically inconvenient, but funny to boot. |
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| 08/19/05 01:17am |
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ClockworkMind View Profile |
Message To: KrazyKelli In reference to Message Id: 447028 The problem is that noone hear keeps them..
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| 08/19/05 01:43am |
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SHvar View Profile |
Message To: KrazyKelli In reference to Message Id: 447028 As I said, about caresheets and those who write them.
Unfortunately there is very little info thats even work reading in other books about monitors, and some books are really bad. Unfortunately its these other books that are sold in petstores and in local bookstores, they are the mass produced cheap books that most refer to and seem to want to belive when researching captive care, unfortunately these books are trash and the authors are just that, authors, they either have never kept a monitor, or cannot even keep one alive very long, so why write the book? Making money, what they do as authors. This is why I mention about caresheets, so many people who write caresheets trying to be serious quote from these junk books when writing their caresheet, they think they have done their research, but they just dont realize its the wrong research, and not so good research. The problem I have with caresheets and the comment you made about it being for a joke is that someone will take it seriously as they read caresheets to get serious info, so why write a fictional caresheet, they are supposed to be factual? Theres a guy that owns an island thats part of Africa, but considered part of Spain, he has a bunch of komodos living on hus island, he has bred them and keeps them sucessfully, Im sure he could write one, I believe the island is for sale to. |
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| 08/19/05 12:08pm |
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KrazyKelli View Profile |
Message To: SHvar In reference to Message Id: 447335 As I said, about caresheets and those who write them.
I’m sure if the person making the caresheet were to PM the Webmaster with a note that the caresheet is for a joke on the board... Or he sees this thread.. or it’s written right on the sheet ’this is a joke’... it’ll get through. Btw, I’ve written novels in the past and I resent your statement about authors. Everyone is different, gets their subject material differently, learns things differently. Just because one or two books aren’t to your liking doesn’t mean that Every author out there is just as bad. |
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| 08/19/05 01:56pm |
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SHvar View Profile |
Message To: KrazyKelli In reference to Message Id: 447453 One or two, well lets see..
Authors are authors, they write books for a living, that doesnt mean what they write is true, plain and simple. And novels are fiction, unless specifically based on factual situations. I listed so far the only good monitor books available that have good captive care info in them, period. The others are all recycling the same info from each other, after all if you quote another well known author on the same subject and support them it gives the claim and both authors a bit more credibility in a readers eye if they dont know any better. The idea behind caresheets is to help someone understand captive husbandry of what ever animal, why even do it if its a joke? Unfortunately too many take the bad caresheets way too seriously, the ones that should specify "this is a joke". A caresheet is a caresheet, plain and simple. No they will probably never own one, and cannot get one, but the point is that caresheets are no novels, or short stories, they are supposed to be reference material. I really dont like caresheets because they are a short cut for someone who wants to avoid research and get a set of simple instuctions in a sense. I wrote one for this site, but it has an entire "species plate" included so that the reader can understand what the animal is, and needs. |
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| 08/20/05 02:56am |
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Beatles View Profile |
Message To: SHvar In reference to Message Id: 448256 One or two, well lets see..
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| 08/21/05 09:12pm |
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SHvar View Profile |
Message To: Beatles In reference to Message Id: 450372 Grow up, does your mommy know you talk to others that way?
Anyways, why would anyone write a caresheet if they know nothing abou the animal, or to give advice that someone might take and endanger their pet, why, they have too much time on their hands and wish to cause problems or prove some kind of point. Lets actions speak not words, you need to back up a caresheet with real knowledge and some experience. Other wise its not your caresheet, you just wrote someone elses, that makes you an author. What i said about authors of petstore reptile books is that they are authors, they write books to make money, anyone with common sense knows this. As far as monitor books go I gave a list in this thread of the only good or decent books available on captive care as of yet, these authors have experience and knowledge to back it up. I can site many titles that arent worth the paper they were printed on, these were written by authors, they are not written by those who have raised, kept, or bred these animals sucessfully. There are a few books written by great field researchers, but also mediocre or bad at keeping these animals in captivity, for whatever reasons. None the less the best example of a monitor care book that could have been written was advised by the most experienced and sucessful keeper/breeder in the world, but was to be written by another individual, as Frank Retes said, hes not an author, he wont write books, hes a keeper. He advised a good article in Reptiles mag years ago, and advised Daniel Bennets savannah book, but nothing since. He gives advice on the internet, thats his effort to this hobby. I am not an author, it took me a bit to write and edit that species plate I wrote, I decided to do so originally as I was asked by many people over years to make a caresheet, then by a good friend who has a website that deals with reptiles etc. So I did it, Im not author and will not try to be, Im a hobbyist, a keeper, I actually keep and care for the animals, I do ok as a matter of fact if I do say so myself. But then again you are free to see my animals and decide for yourself, experience is a great teacher. |
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| 08/22/05 12:23am |
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KrazyKelli View Profile |
Message To: SHvar In reference to Message Id: 450617 Grow up, does your mommy know you talk to others that way?
You have fingers to type with, Var. And you see the world in only one of many perspectives. I cannot even begin to comprehend how you came to be this way or even how I interpret what you say. At the same time it has become clear that your actions in this thread have hurt more than the simple deviator and other actors on the stage. Are you aware of this? I make money off of my novels, yes. I also have a career in art and music composition. Does this make me a bad individual to you? Do I write, draw, and compose simply for the handful of coin in my pocket? There is more to life than profit and you need to understand this: my life’s work is my heart. I hold that regard towards everyone who chooses to work in the literature or art world. For while you envision them as mindless teachers with no experience, I envision you as one whom either envies their choice of life style... Or lacks the spirit to step outside away from a teenagers internet forum simply to breath the air and clear your head. Please talk with the people whom write the books, invite them out for lunch, and become their friends before you decide to insult how they choose to make their money to eat with. I hope we’ve come to a mutual understanding. Btw, who’s gunna write that KomodoDragon caresheet? =D Were you going to, Beatles? Or maybe Clockwork was offering to when he made the thread ^^` =P |
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| 08/22/05 01:17am |
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Bps516 View Profile |
Message To: KrazyKelli In reference to Message Id: 450668 Grow up, does your mommy know you talk to others that way?
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| 08/22/05 08:32pm |
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KrazyKelli View Profile |
Message To: Bps516 In reference to Message Id: 451555 Grow up, does your mommy know you talk to others that way?
Please PM me next time if you wanna ask questions like this. I mean, I don’t wanna divert the thread any... ^^` You should help out on writing this KomodoDragon caresheet idea =D |
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| 08/22/05 09:14pm |
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Bps516 View Profile |
Message To: KrazyKelli In reference to Message Id: 451601 Grow up, does your mommy know you talk to others that way?
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| 08/22/05 09:26pm |
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SHvar View Profile |
Message To: KrazyKelli In reference to Message Id: 450668 I read your response and dont understand some points..
Yes, it is, I agree, and I chose to follow a path that allowed me to travel the world, see places and things that many people will never see or experience, later on I decided to get back to a hobby I enjoyed, of which I have 20 yrs experience with, keeping reptiles. I am in no way jealous or envious of any author, I appreciate a good read when and if I have the time. "I cannot even begin to comprehend how you came to be this way or even how I interpret what you say" In interpret what? I wrote in plain english to make it easy to understand for anyone, I came to see that almost all sources in books about care or husbandry on monitor lizards outside of a few examples I gave are outdated assumptions, bad advice, recycled versions of each republished, and in general harmful to the animals they claim to be giving advice on. "At the same time it has become clear that your actions in this thread have hurt more than the simple deviator and other actors on the stage. Are you aware of this? " I stated a simple fact, this is again stated above about information sources on monitor lizards. As far as anyone being offended, why would someone (I cannot comprehend why they would do so) make a caresheet that either has wrong, harmful, fictitious information on it. There are people that read caresheets to honestly get information to keep their animals by. Yet, I can say that on the monitor forum many times people mention the sewage that they read on caresheets and ask if its true, or they just follow it and the animal suffers the consequences. This is why I responded and hold the statements Ive made here, Im here to help other while I have time to. "For while you envision them as mindless teachers with no experience, I envision you as one whom either envies their choice of life style... Or lacks the spirit to step outside away from a teenagers internet forum simply to breath the air and clear your head. Please talk with the people whom write the books, invite them out for lunch, and become their friends before you decide to insult how they choose to make their money to eat with. " As a matter of fact Ive discussed these points with many of these authors on many occaisions, they are authors who are writing books as reference to people who keep monitor lizards, many have changed their views after being proven wrong on some subjects of husbandry. But many are authors who write these books from information they got from other authors, these people are not even in the community of varanid keepers, they have no first hand knowledge. There are the field researchers who are decent or good at keeping them, but some that are bad or not so good at it, Ive discussed these things with them also. I know these people enought to say with confidence what Ive stated, I also out of respect for the individuals have not mentioned their names to associate what is bad, I have however mentioned those who write good info on them. As far as taking a breath of fresh air, I get plenty of this, as well planty of time away from internet forums with real experience with varanids and other reptiles, etc, every day. Heres a few pictures for you to see what I mean, these are my captives, they are the results of my knowledge, as well knowledge from others who really keep them, and experience as well tons and tons of effort to allow them to not just live, but thrive. This is my little baby Sobek when she was 2 months old sent to me from Rob Faust via Pro exotics.
this is her a few years later, the pic was taken at around 3 years old, she is the world record for a female albigularis (whitethroat/blackthroat) at 6ft 3.5 yrs old and still young. Shes a blackthroat/whitethroat/whitethroat cross.
This is a male flavi-argus cross, I was given him by someone who didnt think it was fair to the animal that he couldnt properly provide what it needed after he got it, this came from actually lack of research before getting something.
This is my pink patternless female pinesnake..
This is a WC bosc monitor I was given for free, he was very tiny in the pic when I got him, Ill have to get new pics soon, hes 3-4 times this size in the time Ive had him.
This a male storrs monitor, the second smallest species in the world, a hands off type, hes a large male at 14 inches or so, he came from someone who didnt quite understand what it may have taken to get them to get along as pairs, so this guy killed the female he lived with, he may have also disliked her, but hes been in my collection now for a while.
This a not as yet completely positively ID wolf Spider that supposedly came from Asia, shes been in my collection for a few years now.
This cage conatins my pair of red ackies that has layed 2 clutches of eggs now in almost 2 months.
This is them. The male Sedona cruising so cricket food for crickets and fuzzy mice.
This is the female laying the last egg from clutch 2, this was taken 1 ft deep in the dirt while she was in her egg laying trance.
This is a pic of my last beardie I kept from when I bred them, hes just soon about 1.5 yrs old, hes 21.5 inches long now.
I could go on with other pets in my collection, or some that bad choices or bad husbandry have killed, but I leave it at this. These beautiful creatures are real, they and others like them are the reason I post to help others and give advice on this forum. Fiction reading is fun to do but it does not create or produce something like these, they are real, this is why I resonded to this thread, its about real live creatures, not fiction or authors, or how someone took offense to fiction not being reality. Before you tell someone to step away from the forums you need to know what they reference their statements and knowledge from, you need to realize that forums to someone like me are a communications device to help others and to trade info on these beautiful creatures. Before you assume someone is a teenager with no imagination you need to know a bit about them, the last time I was a teenager was many years ago. This discussion isnt and wasnt about fiction writing, its about someone asking why a care sheet was never written on komodo dragons, an honest truthful answer was given by myself on this. Now maybe you can understand why I dislike bad caresheets and bad reference books. |
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| 08/23/05 01:26am |
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KrazyKelli View Profile |
Message To: SHvar In reference to Message Id: 451902 I read your response and dont understand some points..
The guy didn’t make the thread asking you why there are no komodo caresheets... Where did you get that idea? He KNOWS why there are no komodo dragon caresheets.. It’s cause they can’t be kept as pets.. SO he wanted to see a joke one made for the hell of it. Then you come in rambelling about how much you hate authors, books, and bad caresheets. Who cares? Seriously, mate. I was just leading you on a wild controversy chase for the fun of it up til now. =P Pulling your tail to see what you’d write. But you really gotta relax. We aren’t out to destroy Komodo Dragons. We aren’t out to encourage people to get exotic illegal lizards. And we aren’t out to write bad caresheets for pet lizards to have them hurt. Writing a komodo dragon caresheet will just be for the fun of it and I assure you that no harm will come out of it. Now chill, person. |
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| 08/23/05 02:02am |
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Rya View Profile |
Message To: ClockworkMind In reference to Message Id: 446621
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| 08/23/05 05:39pm |
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Tcmoore87 View Profile |
Message To: Rya In reference to Message Id: 452663 Reptic Zone Care Sheets
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| 08/25/05 07:15am |
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Derick View Profile |
Message To: ClockworkMind In reference to Message Id: 446621 Reptic Zone Care Sheets
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| 09/14/05 06:34pm |
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Tiliquachub View Profile |
Message To: Derick In reference to Message Id: 478714 Reptic Zone Care Sheets
is that correct Shvar? andy |
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| 09/15/05 03:05pm |
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SHvar View Profile |
Message To: Tiliquachub In reference to Message Id: 479533 I answered this same question a while back on the komodo forum.
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| 09/17/05 12:23am |
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Reptic Zone Care Sheets