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 #1775538


Hockeygoalie
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 The traveling southern alligator ? lizard, continued


This is the lizard we think is a southern alligator lizard. He (?) is presently in a 10 gal tank with a sand/soil zoo-med substrate, a hide-a-log, a couple smaller rocks from the yard, and a small dish of water. We’ve been feeding him live gut-filled crickets for the past 3 days, about 3/4 a day. How much should we be feeding? The crickets are also covered in a calcium powder (well, most of them) The lizard has eaten all crickets offered to him. A friend has a larger tank so we hope to get him in that soon. What do we do, and not do, for habitat stuff? help.
06/27/08  01:32pm

 #1775966


PrinceSushi
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   Message To: Hockeygoalie   In reference to Message Id: 1775538


 The traveling southern alligator ? lizard, continued

Looks like a northern species, possibly elgaria coerulea palmeri.
The care for southerns and northerns is very similar, except northerns require higher humidity.

What was the zip code/county the package shipped from?
06/27/08  08:53pm

 #1776240


Aliceinwl
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   Message To: PrinceSushi   In reference to Message Id: 1775966


 The traveling southern alligator ? lizard, continued

It looks like a southern to me. A lot of the California subspecies, Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata have a lot of black mottling on the head and body. Northerns also seem to have bit different build. If you flip it over and look at the belly, northerns will appear to have faint lines running down the sides of the scales while the lines will appear to run down the center of the scales in southerns.

In terms of care:

20 gallon tank
UVB lighting
50 watt basking light
water bowl
lots of hides
reptibark or compressed coconut fiber substrate (i prefer the bark, it’s less dusty)
calcium supplement with vitamin D3 and no phosphorus (I’ve had great results with Rep-Cal )
lots of crickets

Crickets should be gutloaded by offering them fish flakes orange slices, carrots and other fresh produce for 24 hours before offering them to your lizard and dusted with the calcium supplement. Avoid feeding lots of high fat items like mealworms, superworms, waxworms and pinkie mice. These are fine as the occasional treat, but will lead to obesity if fed regularly. I feed my adult als ~5 large crickets 3-4 times a week. Water should always be available.
06/28/08  01:43am

 #1776365


Hockeygoalie
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   Message To: PrinceSushi   In reference to Message Id: 1775966


 The traveling southern alligator ? lizard, continued

the package he arrived in came from San Luis Obispo, CA 93401. I guess that’s one of the reasons we thought he might be the southern . . .



06/28/08  08:23am

 #1776368


Hockeygoalie
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   Message To: Aliceinwl   In reference to Message Id: 1776240


 The traveling southern alligator ? lizard, continued

Thank you! We’e been offering him 3 or 4 crickets a day (after the 2nd day the crickets had been fed with flukers cricket food and water-gel), so I’ll add some to the crickets diet to better feed the lizard. Is feeding him every day too much? And thanks for the substrate info too, I’ve gotten lots of mixed info on this particular issue. I called the company that shipped the package to tell them about the lizard and they insist it couldn’t have come from them, no such lizards there -- uh hunh. No such lizards like this in NY. Is there anyone else I should let know about this bizarre shipment? I tried to look into the species, and while it doesn’t appeared protected I don’t know about accidental shipments of species out of state. That being said, I must say the lizard has been well received here, after the shock wore off. We are doing the best we can to keep him happy - thanks for the info



06/28/08  08:32am

 #1777280


Aliceinwl
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   Message To: Hockeygoalie   In reference to Message Id: 1776368


 The traveling southern alligator ? lizard, continued

I live pretty close to San Luis Obispo and he (the head shape is indicative of a male) looks a lot like our local southerns. Maybe he was a stow-away in an box they had lying around or maybe they left it open for awhile partially packed. They don’t have any special protections in California, it would be illegal to purchase a wild California al and you need to have a sport fishing license to collect your own. A person in California can gift excess offspring or unwanted legally collected captives as long at there is no commercial aspect (exchange of money or goods). Since you’re out of state, you’d be bound by your state’s reptile laws rather than California’s in terms of what you do with him. I’m not sure what you ordered, but if it were me I’d consider him a huge bonus ;o)

Your feeding regime sounds fine, just make sure you’re religious with the calcium with vitamin D3 supplementation as these guys are very prone to metabolic bone disease without it. If you want more interaction with him, you can try offering him his crickets on forceps and if he takes them you can switch him over to taking them from your hand. This is a great way to start building trust. They’re pretty perceptive lizards and it usually doesn’t take them long to overcome fear when food is involved. I have two northerns that are pretty skittish and don’t tolerate handling well, but when they see me with the cricket bag, they’re at the front of the tank grabbing crickets from my fingers as I drop them in. They know that when I approach their tank with baggie in hand, it means food.
06/29/08  01:55am

 #1777317


PrinceSushi
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   Message To: Hockeygoalie   In reference to Message Id: 1776368


 The traveling southern alligator ? lizard, continued

Ah, must be e. m. multicarinata or e. m. webbii if he came from that location. Location can be the key point to IDing many allies, since some look a lot alike. They aren’t protected so you shouldn’t have anything to worry about there. As long as your state permits the possession of the species, you should be fine. If you find he is too much for you, they are aggressive, you should contact your local zoo or wildlife center to see if they have room for him or can send him to another center that may take him. Other wise they are amazing lizards to watch and care for.

Personally I offer food everyday, but I currently have a growing boy. An adult can survive on crickets every other day and may only eat that much, others will eat up to 10 adult crickets a day. Just fix your routine according to his habits.

I 100% have to agree with Alice, its male. Thats one giant head on him!

Alice- Yes, most northerns do have a different shape, but palmeri who’s range extends to southern California, heavily resembles most southerns. The eyes in the photos look very dark, suggesting palmeri, but now that I take a second look I believe he is blinking in the 2nd picture. Of course, the recommendation of looking at the scales on the abdomen is the best was to differentiate the two.
06/29/08  03:43am


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