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 #781049


Monitorkid
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 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

hey all, i am making a survey on what you would do if you weere bitten by an 18 inch-3 foot alligator. here are the choices:

A. kill it

B. go to the hospital and have it removed

C. try to PULL it off.

whatever your choice is, please share why you chose that answer, and why.
05/11/06  02:28am

 #781060


Bayou Beasts
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   Message To: Monitorkid   In reference to Message Id: 781049


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

I have been bitten over 30 times by gators/caiman from 12 inches through 8 feet and I can tell you none of the above is even close to a smart idea. First just go with the flow of the gator(meaning if they pull go along, if they swing to the side get ready to dance). Second if you get bit chances are it was your fault not the animals so killing it is not at all fair. And last taking a Gator to the hospital is not a good idea for many reasons so I am not going to get into that at all.

Tony



05/11/06  02:56am

 #781247


Monitorkid
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   Message To: Bayou Beasts   In reference to Message Id: 781060


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

i just made this because SOMEONE on here kept tellling me about some survey he took, because he thinks it was a bad idea for ****** ******* to drive to the hospital...with a gator attached. he said that hed kill it instead, and appaerently his survey was that everyone he asked would kill the gator, so i thought id find out what you all think.



05/11/06  10:37am

 #781426


Beanobeansly
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   Message To: Monitorkid   In reference to Message Id: 781247


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

wow monitor kid it looks like you proved nothing... what i am saying is, if it came down to it, to remove the alligator,(which i have as a pet so i do like them) would be to get it off of my hand by any means. don’t drive a car when it happens, thats stupid, what if the alligator rolls, or the driver passes out... monitor kid... i still would have gone to a hospital, i think that the driving part is stupid...

also your taking this survey on a reptile forum, that a rather inaccurate set up for a survey on this matter..
05/11/06  01:17pm

 #781439


Razeraze
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   Message To: Monitorkid   In reference to Message Id: 781049


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

you hope for the best that is what you do. hope you live to work againLink Link
05/11/06  01:30pm

 #781441


Beanobeansly
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   Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 781439


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

haha i bet he drove with it on his head... geat links.
05/11/06  01:32pm

 #781459


Monitorkid
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   Message To: Beanobeansly   In reference to Message Id: 781441


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

thats the most important thing, to hope for the best. but he thiks driving to the hospital with an alligator on her hand is stupid, because she didnt KILL it. id just like to get everyones opionion
05/11/06  01:50pm

 #781488


Beanobeansly
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   Message To: Monitorkid   In reference to Message Id: 781459


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

killing it or not, it was the driving thats stupid.... you don’t have to kill it, but if it wouldn’t detach i would....
05/11/06  02:10pm

 #781505


Monitorkid
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   Message To: Beanobeansly   In reference to Message Id: 781488


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

you would drive if it didnt detach? i guess it can be kinda idiotic to do that...like you said, putting others in danger.
05/11/06  02:36pm

 #781520


Flavio
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   Message To: Monitorkid   In reference to Message Id: 781049


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

The choices you have given are really not valid. If you are in that situation you should already have a plan to handle that. There are many techniques and protocol for handling that situation that are published. To be a serios survey with serious choices you should think it through next time.



Flavio Morrissiey



05/11/06  02:54pm

 #781567


Beanobeansly
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   Message To: Flavio   In reference to Message Id: 781520


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

no monitor kid i wouldn’t, that has been my point this entire time, that it is idiotic... haha case and point
05/11/06  03:39pm

 #781571


Beanobeansly
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   Message To: Flavio   In reference to Message Id: 781520


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

not to mention that we are on a reptile forum so most replies favor the animal no matter what, i think that a door to door survey would be more telling of what a person would do.



05/11/06  03:44pm

 #781578


Razeraze
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   Message To: Flavio   In reference to Message Id: 781520


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

flavio on your site you should mention safety and accidents so people getting reptiles know what to do. i have had great results with bitter apple a non chew spray for dogs. i have tried liquor which did not work. warm water worked on my sav but not my water monitor. i have sat it out and waited. the best so far is the bitter apple. before we would spray her in the mouth with it we would say "no" after months of using gloves she finally dociled down so we didn’t need gloves. one day though she did bite my un gloved hand i said "no" and she let go. i am sure she thought the bitter apple was coming.

you should have a section on precautions / signs of aggression/ saftey tools and measures/ and methods and instructions in case of an attack or accident.

if you would like for me to send you a list of monitor warning signs and methods i have used i will.



05/11/06  03:52pm

 #781593


Krokadilyanguy3
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   Message To: Beanobeansly   In reference to Message Id: 781571


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

A survey on this section dealing with these animals is highly valid compared to any other place.

We keep them, we have a higher possibility of being in the position to where this poll would even be considered. Asking door to door is where your validation is flawed. Especially since none of these people probably care as much for these animals as any of us do.

Now, if you’re just asking to see how many "would bes" would kill an alligator from being bit, sure death would be the higher end of the court, but in the case, their replies are mute.

Also, rolling would be a bit of a task being restrained as Celtic claimed she had the animal. However, the animal could have simply thrashed about making the incident a bit more severe, so driving probably wasn’t the best idea, but what’s done is done.

Get bit, call it a day.



05/11/06  04:06pm

 #781785


Beanobeansly
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   Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 781593


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

i disagree, the response here would favor saving the life of an animal. it would be a one sided poll. but apparently noone has sided with the kid
05/11/06  06:25pm

 #781916


Flavio
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   Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 781578


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

I will take that into consideration. I have written policies for all sizes of crocodilians, however I want to educate about prevention. On a note of bite prevention, the best that I have found was brushing the teeth of the crocodilians. This is a great way for desensitization. With adults I have used push brooms. This technique is to lower the percentage of getting injured. In the past myself and staff would work (handling) with animals from 3 to 12 feet. In one year the number of interactions was 45k to 50k. The rule was not to be bitten. We went 22 months with out an incident. The incedents before and after were very minor. The key was the training and also the mindset of not getting injured by an animal.
On the other hand there are some that think there is status in being bit. If any one that wants to be bit it is really easy. The real challenge is how long can you go with out being bit.

I will add some a safety page on basic first aid, and there is a grading system that I have used for 17 years that proves helpful. If there any specifice questions on how to get out of a bite I will be happy to share my experiences and put the protocol on the website.
On the different taste releasing chemicals lemon juice has worked the best with vinegar number 2. The bitter apple is very close to the lemon juice and vinegar. Thanks for the great comment about posting a safety page I will start on it now.


Flavio Morrissiey
ReptileTraining.Com
05/11/06  07:36pm

 #781935


Monitorkid
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   Message To: Flavio   In reference to Message Id: 781916


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

am i asking anyone to side with me? no. id just like to see what some one would do if, prey they dont, get bit. this isnt about sides, or who knows more, tis just a question.
05/11/06  07:52pm

 #781950


Razeraze
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   Message To: Flavio   In reference to Message Id: 781916


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

flavio i agree the best is to not get bit. that is why i said

Quote:

you should have a section on precautions / signs of aggression/ saftey tools and measures/ and methods and instructions in case of an attack or accident.

signs of aggression being a huge part. i know with monitors things like no i contact and slow movements help you appear as less of a threat. how ever new keepers should know the warning signs(wide eyes/ tense body movement/ raised tail/throat puffing/hissing/ excessive drool/ gaping mouth/ tripod/ elevated front end etc..) before they start interaction.

i can’t wait to here some more of your methods and ideas. perhaps we can turn this thread into a what to do and not to do instead of where it seems to be going.

croc keepers i would love to here your stories and ideas incase i decide to get a cayman eventually.
05/11/06  08:03pm

 #782231


Krokadilyanguy3
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   Message To: Beanobeansly   In reference to Message Id: 781785


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

The circumstance is among a herper, the entire ordeal is dealing with herpetculture; which most of an entire neighborhood population probably is not involved in. And probably half that are, really aren’t that well dedicated, as I’m sure most of us are.

So, tallies will be biased in either case however, since the discussion is among herpers to begin with, an outside vote would be nothing short of mute.

Same could be said about most polls, anyway.

As for my vote on the poll, death would be the last option. I was bitten by one of my Spectacle caiman while dealing with the animal and having to watch someone else deal with another. My mistake was not paying attention to where I had my knees and I happened to have knee a bit too close to the mouth of the animal and not having a secure handle on the animal. My focus was towards another’s safety that was trying to help with my safety. Never fun housing more than one crocodilian within the same enclosure, even at the size my enclosures are; and a few of them being highly aggressive.

I simply just sat there while the animal had my knee in it’s mouth for a good 15 minutes and neither one of us moved, every time I did he bit a little harder, so I figure not moving was a swell idea. It was, he let go, I let go and we both went on our marry way. No one died, I lost a little bit of blood and gained a stupidity sign.

Killing in this circumstance was never an option and probably isn’t in many who keep these animal’s. Same for a bite on the hand. If it is, I would advise that this probably isn’t the field for you because many animals will most likely end up on the short end of the stick.

I am stating this solely on the fact that you would have "seriously damaged your animal" due to a broken hand from the animal or a simple flesh wound. Death for a bite from self lacking intelligence is a high price to pay, even if you are one who believes humans own a higher regard when compared to an animal. And like I’ve said, if my life were in fact in danger I would defend myself, and it’s apparent the animal has the same principle.

Flavio, did you get my email I sent you a few weeks ago: Me moving to Orlando and such.
05/11/06  11:08pm

 #782345


Beanobeansly
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   Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 782231


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

i think it is more fair to ask the public for it is the less experienced people that get bitten.
not to mention that this is a forum about the care of reptiles, maybe a post on a forum about animal attacks would be better. if i went into the snake area and said i hate snakes, everyone would get pissed, but if i said it in a public area, people would agree, so when talking about killing an alligator in this area, of course there will be some upset. ask around, see what people say, i bet you at leats a few will say what i did.... three foot alligator bit you on the hand and will not let go, what would you do... just ask..

ps. my alligator has never bitten me. because i understand that it is an alligator so i handle it properly. its not hard to avoid being bitten, not hard at all...
05/12/06  01:38am

 #782383


Bayou Beasts
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   Message To: Beanobeansly   In reference to Message Id: 782345


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

The problem with asking the general public is as stated earlier. Most don’t own, handle, or care for the animal in question.

What would you do if you were in a space shuttle mishap? You don’t have a clue as you are not in a position to do anything other than speculate as to what it would be like. I know people who say if a dog bites me I would kill it but when the time comes it is sheer panic and they come closer to curling into the fetal postion than killing the animal.

You took your survey with people who deal with the animals, Sure we deal with them because we have a love for it but I ask who better to ask than the people with handsa on.

I would not go to boxing match to find out what everyone there would do if the cupcakes they might bake would burn. LOL

Plan and simple these animals are in captivity or around people mostly because we choose to have them there, so why make the animal pay with it’s life for our choices?

Tony



05/12/06  03:18am

 #782428


Flavio
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   Message To: Krokadilyanguy3   In reference to Message Id: 782231


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

My original comment was pointed to the answers to the surveys answers not the question.

Flavio Morrissiey
ReptileTraining.Com
05/12/06  06:46am

 #782606


Beanobeansly
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   Message To: Flavio   In reference to Message Id: 782428


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

we make animals pay all the time for attacking humans, sharks are hunted down along with many other large animals. then killed, i feel thats less right... if you bit an alligator on the tail it would not hesitate to kill you... if i punched a bear i would feel the rath of it. so, if an alligator is clamped on my friggin arm, i will do what it takes to remove it....
05/12/06  11:39am

 #782718


Beanobeansly
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   Message To: Beanobeansly   In reference to Message Id: 782606


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

i can’t believe they got rid of the other one... i have seen far harsher words exchanged in this site. all i said was that she was really attached to her new alligator purse.. man some people need to lighten up..

anywho i chose A.

but after thinking about the size. three feet. i think it wouldn’t be that hard to remove .. now if it were 8’ i think even killing it would be more then a struggle.

i think that an animal attack area would be interesting, for not only would there be survivel stories, and just dumb stories. but also how to avoid having a story to tell..



05/12/06  01:02pm

 #783553


Bayou Beasts
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   Message To: Beanobeansly   In reference to Message Id: 782718


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

I have been bit in the knee by my 8 footer and he released me immediately. I can tell you from experience that you will not be thinking about how to get it to release you because the pressure and pain involved will more than deffinately have you mind on it.

I went to the hospital about 3 years ago because I thought I was going to loose three of my fingers due to a croc bite that I sustained during normal maintainance. First I told the hospital that it happened with a power saw, as I seen it I was the one to blame because I did something wrong. My wife said " thats it she has to go I want that F’n thing out of our house". My response was(hands in bandages, pain and all)" She did what she was suposed to do. I am the one who screwed up not her, she acted on instinct".
Again We choose to be near them. Just like with venomous snakes and any other animal, you can play with fire so long before you get burnt. But sooner or later it will happen. My thoughts on this are simple if you feel you would kill an animal for doing what millions of years of instinct tell it to do then stayy the hell out of the way, and get rid of them if you have them.

Tony



05/12/06  11:39pm

 #783604


Beanobeansly
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   Message To: Bayou Beasts   In reference to Message Id: 783553


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

those are great points, but i feel that not everyone that plays with fire gets burnt. those who handle the animal using all precautions will never have an infraction.
my concern now is from the local reptile shop, their store alligator has free roam throughout the store and to all of the customers. the alligator is 9 years old and maybe is 4.5-5 feet long maybe! i don’t even know if they feed it. the owner suggested that i hardly feed mine to keep it dog sized. i was rather offended by this and is my main reason why i feel that captive alligators are a bad idea. i would never consider anything like that, however a few people in the store had alligators and were basically describing that they starve theirs... whats up with that?



05/13/06  12:36am

 #783953


Razeraze
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   Message To: Beanobeansly   In reference to Message Id: 783604


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

Quote:

using all precautions will never have an infraction.

don’t count on it. the only 100% safe way to keep an animal (any animal) is not to keep it. dogs attack/ horses attack/ etc.....

snake sticks and gloves are great precautions so is understanding the animals body language but don’t count on never getting bit you might get dissapointed.

tony that story sounds like when my salvator bit me. rachel was furious. i was like "it could have been worse" at least she let go.



awww the little angels



05/13/06  12:07pm

 #1004263


Simbaah
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   Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 783953


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

I would never be over confindent in my skill in handling any crocodillian or lizard even though I have never been biten either but with any gator/croc I wonder why people have never thought of using metal mesh gloves, you can order these online, they are like a shark suit for your hand and arm, they come up high and protect your arm as well and to be safer wear regular gloves over them so you can escape a clamp, but the metal should stop penetration but you may still feel some pressure. Dont try to be Steve Irwin, I love him but he rarley handled snakes or crocs in a proper or safe way, not becuase he didn’t know how to but he was an entertainer and a thrill seeker, a dare devil and he loved his life, thats cool for him I guess but I am not a thrill seeker or a dare devil, I just love being around reptiles of all kinds and I choose to be as safe as I can and fear is a good instinct to keep up safe, fear keeps us from doing stupid stuff. Dont be brave and dead for a no cause matter. Many things you see on TV shows are for stunts and for show, thats not the correct or safe way to handle crocodilians, its for show only. But to each his own. And one more thing, it is better for beginners to ask stupid questions then to pretend to know it all, that is what gets people hurt, (pride) and everyone had to start somewhere wether it be with a Skink or a Gator but I agree that a monitor is the best practice. We were all begginers at one time so there is no need to diss others but I do agree with the comment about anger over people keeping full grown crocs in way to small enclosures and neglegent care takers and people with no finances to support them but on the other hand we all make mistakes and learn from them. Peace, no drama please........



09/30/06  11:53pm

 #1007158


Snakebite4
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   Message To: Simbaah   In reference to Message Id: 1004263


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

that would be funny to see someone walk into a hospital with a little gator on there hands saying PULL IT OFF PULL IT OFF! lol im actually picturing this too lol


by the way c



10/02/06  10:57pm

 #1008127


Krokadilyanguy3
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   Message To: Snakebite4   In reference to Message Id: 1007158


 SURVEY: what would you do if you got bit by a gator.

I do not wear gloves with my larger animals because any that would even help against a Nile or Saltwater, or even my Paleosuchus are typically to thick to manipulate properly and throws off my handleing. Plus, the grip from my palms and fingers seem to be more firm than with gloves. I don’t even like wearing gloves with my mangrove.

Also, my Niles and one of my gators are one of those ’grab and pull as hard as possible’ type of guys. Most of the niles and the saltwater also enjoy a nice spin if the branch, food, water hose still has resistance on it afterwards.

A glove, even one off a nautical shark suit, won’t withstand something like this. Ah, the love may but the limb won’t. Plus, from rumors, these are fairly loose (Not sure if it’s the same thing you are speaking of).

I can’t speak for everyone but I figure this is why a lot of people do not bother.
10/03/06  05:50pm
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