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#152157
Scott14
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SIZE? 
Wot size tank shud a baby bp b in and how long for?
thnks
Scott14,
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09/30/04 6:34pm
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#152171
Roachey56
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Message To: Scott14 In reference to Message Id: 152157
SIZE?
for a neonate out to several months old a small plastic shoebox works best. Then move to a 10 gallon size until around 3’ long.
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09/30/04 6:55pm
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#152453
Pelota
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Message To: Roachey56 In reference to Message Id: 152171
SIZE?
I’d just start with a 10 gallon if you’re getting a real young baby. If it’s around 2-4 months old though, start with a 20 gallon and it’ll be perfect until it hits 2-3 feet long.
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10/01/04 1:14am
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#152691
Scott14
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Message To: Pelota In reference to Message Id: 152453
SIZE?
thnks guys.
Ne1 else?
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10/01/04 4:32pm
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#152820
Roachey56
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Message To: Pelota In reference to Message Id: 152453
20L for a 2 moth old???????????
are you crazy? a 2 month old will barely be around 20", a snake 40" long can be kept (smaller cage=more security) in a 10 gallon. Wait until your snake hits 3-3.5’ before moving it out of the 10 gallon, then move it two its adult cage.
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10/01/04 7:44pm
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#153137
Pelota
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Message To: Roachey56 In reference to Message Id: 152820
20L for a 2 moth old???????????
Different strokes for different folks. It’s not like your way is the best way. That’s just how you’d like to do things. I myself beleive that hatchlings like security, yes. Maybe for the first month of their life, put them in a shoe box or whatever. Then when they start feeding well and getting more outgoing, move up to a 10 or 20 gallon. My snake is only 4 months old and she has outgrown a 20 gallon really. I could move her to a bigger one anytime.
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10/02/04 2:30am
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#153140
Super_Smash
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Message To: Roachey56 In reference to Message Id: 152820
 20L for a 2 moth old???????????
Wow. A 3 foot snake in a 10 gal tank? I think not. Now THAT is crazy. Unless you want your snake to feel completely cramped with no place to go, i’d suggest taking Pelota’s advice. BPs DO like security, agreed, but there are some limits. Thats why they have hides. Ever think that provided security? Hmmm... just a thought.
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10/02/04 2:37am
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#153229
Roachey56
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Message To: Super_Smash In reference to Message Id: 153140
How is that crazy??
all snakes love security, even extremely large ones. I would keep my 30" blood in a cage slightly larger than a 10 gallon (around 300 sq inches) if i didn’t have a cage slightly (60 sq inches) larger that was made out of transluscent plastic. I agree some snakes can be kept in larger cages, but they will do best in ones that are "cramped" or too "small" in the mind of a human.
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10/02/04 10:15am
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#153805
Pelota
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Message To: Roachey56 In reference to Message Id: 153229
How is that crazy??
Wow, cool advice. Thanks! Guess I can afford to buy that burmese python. I thought I’d have to section off a lot of space when it grows up. But screw that, I’ll keep it in my dresser drawer. That seems secure and small! 
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10/03/04 1:32am
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#153916
Roachey56
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Message To: Pelota In reference to Message Id: 153805
How is that crazy??
Many dressers and wardrobes are large enough to keep full grown burms and retics, so chances are you could use one you own. If you have 6’ by 2’ dresser you could keep a 10 foot burm.
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10/03/04 11:04am
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#154114
JakePRouse
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Message To: Roachey56 In reference to Message Id: 153916
How is that crazy??
I have a 80 gallon tank for my BP, and she is only 5 months. the size of tank doesn;t mater, just make sure there is lots of cover, and places to hide! Do they live in a 20 gallon ... in the wild?No they just have lots of places to hide ...
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10/03/04 4:41pm
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#154144
Roachey56
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Message To: JakePRouse In reference to Message Id: 154114
How is that crazy??
do they live in an aquarium in the wild? no!The size of the cage DOES matter, a large, transparent, and bright cage even with lots of places to hide is worse than a small, transluscent/opaque, and dark cage with only one spot to hide. Think about how the snake will do BEST, not what you want/is easier for you. If ball pythons did best (grew faster, ate better, less illness, produced more young, more docile, less stressed, etc) when housed in HUGE cages from the time of birth then extremely large cages would be recomended and USED by the breeders. The fact that almost all captive bred neonate ball pythons that eat regularly are housed in "small", "cramped", transluscent, and dark cages is something to say.
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10/03/04 5:13pm
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#154149
Guitarzen77
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Message To: JakePRouse In reference to Message Id: 154114
 How is that crazy??
Agreed, hiding places are more important to make sure your ball feels safe. If tank size is the issue, then maybe a garder snake is a better pet for those with 10 gallon size tanks for 2+ foot long ball pythons. If you can not afford a good home for you beloved snake, then don’t torture the animal becuase you "want" one on a whim.
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10/03/04 5:18pm
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#154171
Roachey56
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Message To: Guitarzen77 In reference to Message Id: 154149
Lol.........
a 10 gallon aquarium IS a good cage for ball pythons 2-3’ish. What makes you think that they aren’t??? is it because you dont know anything about how to care for the animal? is it because you dont care if the animal is stressed as long as it "has room to play in" it is good? is it because you can’t realize the fact that some (ball pythons and blood pythons in particular) do BEST when kept in cages that many people consider "cramped"? is it because you will find any excuse to anthropomorphize with your snake? or is it simply because you were ignorant about the subject and where forced to immediately start to care for this foreign animal?
Anyone who puts a small ball python in a Huge cage (a 3’ ball python shouldn’t be in anything larger than a 20L, preferably in something slightly smaller, and a 2’ in anything larger 10 gallon, plastic shoeboxes will be much better for a snake under 2’) needs to learn their animals needs. It doesn’t matter if you think it will like the extra space, the fact of the matter is it will get stressed. YOU are torturing the animal by providing it with unacceptable caging if you are giving it a large cage. A cage to large is WORSE than a cage to small when dealing with many snakes.
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10/03/04 5:38pm
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#154394
JakePRouse
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Message To: Roachey56 In reference to Message Id: 154171
Lol.........
.... I am torturing my BP by giving it to much room ??? hmmm i am missing the logic is this. She a small and large hide, vines, and leaves to hide under ... etc etc ... The reason for have’ing a small cage is so they feel secure, and safe ... and you can do this in a large cage aswell, by prviding areas to feel safe ... hides, vines, leaves. I don’t think my cage is, "transparent and bright"
From my experiece, size of cage is not important ... just that you have good hides, temps, and humidity 
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10/03/04 9:40pm
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#154506
Pelota
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Message To: JakePRouse In reference to Message Id: 154394
Lol.........
Yeah, damn. I’ve been torturing my perfectly healthy snake that eats excellent, sheds excellent, is docile and friendly, etc...I keep my 4 month old bp in a 20 gallon tank. Thanks for the advice Roachey. I’ll toss my snake in a shoebox as soon as I can.  One thing I havent mentioned which is the reason I’m against such small enclosures for snakes is the heating issue. It’s recommended that you provide a heat gradient for your ball python so it can thermoregulate as it pleases. Well, using small enclosures like 10 gallon or smaller is hard to keep a temperature gradient in. A 20 gallon tank is perfect for such a thing. Just put a heat pad under half the tank, and you should have a nice temperature gradient. Then put in hides, greenery for cover, etc, and you’re set. Also, keeping a ball python in a small space all the time wouldn’t be good for keeping it lean and stuff. I’m sure no matter what people say, at night a ball python will go exploring in its tank and excercise a bit. Keeping a snake cramped up in a small tank with not much free space to cruise around in at night would probably leave you with a fat weak snake. As I’ve already said, different strokes for different folks. I understand that you think it’s best to keep snakes in small tight enclosures, but that doesn’t mean you have to go on and on about it and tell everyone that they’re "torturing" and not taking care of their snakes if they keep it in a bigger enclosure. That’s wrong. Sorry, but I don’t care what you think. If my snake is eating and shedding fine, and isn’t showing stress, I’ll keep it in whatever the hell I want. I could understand what you’re saying maybe if I and the others who keep their snakes in "huge" enclosures were having feeding and health issues. But I, and most others, are doing just fine the way we are. I’ll be sure to lock up my snake in a small shoe box when it stops eating. That’ll solve everything. I’m sure.
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10/04/04 1:42am
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#154710
Roachey56
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Message To: Pelota In reference to Message Id: 154506
Huh?
you find it hard to heat smaller sized cages?why do people think they are so much harder to provide a temp gradient in?
IMO they are lots easier than larger cages to get a good temp gradient. With a 10 gallon/smaller all you need is a 4-5" wide heat pad and your set, but with a larger cages (20L +) you need a much larger heat pad to get the ambient temps on the cool side up. True about the exercising issue though. But most snakes will only stretch themselves out fully, hardly ever even when in an empty room. Just because the snake is 6" longer than the cage doesn’t mean it will stretch itself out more in a cage that is 6" bigger than it.
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10/04/04 3:56pm
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#154991
JakePRouse
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Message To: Roachey56 In reference to Message Id: 154710
Huh?
I don’t think you know what "temp gradient" means. ... haveing difference’s in temperature, havein a hot and cold side, this "temp gradient" is so that a cold blooded animal can regulate their body temp.so, havein a small shoe box, makes it difficult to have the hot and cold side ....
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10/04/04 9:40pm
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#156908
Roachey56
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Message To: JakePRouse In reference to Message Id: 154991
Huh?
but how though?
when a tiny UTH is set to 92 in my house the cool end doesn’t get over 80. Maybe when you dont use any kind of dimming device it gets to hot, but if you have a thermostat it usually wont get to hot. also a cage should never be "cold" at coldes around 75.
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10/07/04 7:08pm
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#157139
JakePRouse
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Message To: Roachey56 In reference to Message Id: 156908
Huh?
yes i know that!!! .... 80 cool side, 90+ hot sideI don;t realy understand anything else you wrote? you are compairing living in a house to, living in a shoe box. What i am saying is that it is not easy, very improbable that you can get a 10-15 degree difference in temp, from one end of a shoe box to the other.
Therefore, i support large tanks, with lots of hides. Thats all i am saying, as well as a couple others i think....
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10/07/04 11:18pm
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#157182
Pelota
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Message To: JakePRouse In reference to Message Id: 157139
Huh?
I support keeping smaller snakes(under 2 feet) in 10-20 gallon tanks. But after that, I wouldn’t use glass tanks at all. Too hard to keep heated, as glass is a poor insulator and doesn’t hold heat well. Once I have to move my bp to a bigger enclosure, I’m just buying a nice sized sterilite or rubbermaid container and doing some simple modifications. Sterilites/Rubbermaids keep heat and humidity better, and it’s easier to clean. And it’s cheaper.
So ya, that’s my methods of enclosures.
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10/08/04 12:14am
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#157249
SCSnakeman
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Message To: Scott14 In reference to Message Id: 152157
SIZE?
A 10 gallon tank will work well for babies but you will need at least a 30 gallon tank and I prefer a larger one when he is grown.
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10/08/04 7:36am
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