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 #202306


Bradley
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 I need some help.

like i said i am gettin a BP thursday and the guy at the pet shop said that they have been feeding it live when they have it and shes been takin that pretty good but he said that they have gave her frozen and he said if i wanted to i could try and get her eating frozen again and i wus wondering if u think she will go back to eating frozen. They said she has eat frozen quite a few times but the same way with live so which 1 do u think i need to try and get her back on to?plz tell me thanx alot again....brad



12/20/04  01:49pm
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 #202324


Roche
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  Message To: Bradley   In reference to Message Id: 202306


 I need some help.

you should get her to eat frozen. the snake could get bitten by the mouse and that is not good.



12/20/04  02:28pm
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 #202430


Bradley
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  Message To: Roche   In reference to Message Id: 202324


 I need some help.

thanx



12/20/04  06:02pm
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 #203805


Ball_Python_Kid
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  Message To: Roche   In reference to Message Id: 202324


 I need some help.

yeah but just cause it bitten doesnt mean anything. my personal opinion is to feed it live, but its your decision



12/22/04  04:32pm
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 #203848


Pelota
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  Message To: Ball_Python_Kid   In reference to Message Id: 203805


 I need some help.

Just because it was bitten doesn’t mean nothing? What does that mean? Are you saying you don’t care if your bp gets bit and injured by a rodent during feeding? If so, that’s pretty cold...



12/22/04  05:12pm
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 #203854


BoaBabe448
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  Message To: Ball_Python_Kid   In reference to Message Id: 203805


 I need some help.

Sorry, but you are so out of the whole feeding live picture. It does mean something if it gets bitten, it can get infected, and it can bleed to death. Sometimes after they get bitten they never eat again. I think you need to learn your facts before you say stuff. Why would you recommend feeding live? Do you even have a snake yet?

"yeah but just cause it bitten doesnt mean anything. my personal opinion is to feed live, but its your decision."
-See for yourself.



I got that from ball-pythons.net, but im not sure who to give credit for that picture too, so im just gonna say that it isn’t my picture.

That snake was alive and suffereing in that picture, and that was a mouse, not even a rat.

I think you might change your opinions now.



12/22/04  05:17pm
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 #203888


Tequlia77
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  Message To: BoaBabe448   In reference to Message Id: 203854


 I need some help.

Well I feed live all the time. But I watch him while he eats and I do not feed him in his tank in case he ingests some bark. I think it is alright as long as it is supervised. That’s just my opinion.



12/22/04  06:03pm
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 #203895


BoaBabe448
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  Message To: Tequlia77   In reference to Message Id: 203888


 I need some help.

Thats fine, your an experienced keeper that supervises it. He’s evidentally an ignorant kid that doesn’t care if his snake gets bitten.



12/22/04  06:14pm
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 #211334


Djm4life666
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  Message To: BoaBabe448   In reference to Message Id: 203895


 I need some help.

wow that picture is amazing.. thats crazy im having second thoughts.. i did not think i mouse could do that.. how come the snake didnt defend its self? i supervise my live feedings becuase my theory is its a snake in a cage the only time it feels like a real snake is the few moments when it is hunting its prey. i just got my snake i dont know alot. but i cant seem to get it to eat it has not eatin in 9 days i put the mouse in the cage and watch. the mouse crawls on the snake i let the mouse stay in the cage with it for a few minutes so i dont stress the snake out. how long should i keep the mouse in the cage? the mouse walks on the snake some times and the snake is scared i just think the snake is not hungry i dont know what to do? please help snake babe.



01/02/05  05:54pm
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 #211352


N2t
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  Message To: Djm4life666   In reference to Message Id: 211334


 I need some help.

Snakes don’t need to "feel wild". Also a snake in the wild feeds when it wants to, not on our schedule. Try f/t, leave a thawed mouse in the enclosure over night, even if u have to fresh kill a mouse, that would work to. My ball has scaring from a previous owner who wanted a cool killer snake that ate rats, when it didn’t and the rat fought back he got rid of it, now I have a healthy ball that readily feeds on f/t...his loss. The ball won’t defend itself by eating..and a strike is not likely to be fatal. It may lash out a few times, but the rodent has nowhere to run either, eventualy the snake will give up, and the rodent will have the opertunity to cause injury.



01/02/05  06:02pm
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 #211524


Thomas Jones
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  Message To: N2t   In reference to Message Id: 211352


 I need some help.

I feed live as well. I keep a close eye on them. As long as you do not leave the food in the cages overnight you should not have a problem. You have to use a little common sense. Do not offer a baby ball a med rat you are looking for problems.



01/02/05  08:16pm
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 #212487


FutureCROChunter
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  Message To: Thomas   In reference to Message Id: 211524


 I need some help.

Yea but alot of times the snake wont grab the mouse by the neck or head and instead near the back of the mouse and as the mouse is being squeezed the mouse is able to bite/chew on the snake because its head is free, then what are you suppose to do, get the snake to let go? yea right...

Steven



01/03/05  08:50pm
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 #212733


Pelota
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  Message To: FutureCROChunter   In reference to Message Id: 212487


 I need some help.

I believe most of the time, when a snake has coiled around a mouse and is squeezing it to death, it is too busy gasping for air to think about biting the snake. It can happen, but it’s not 100% gonna happen. You CAN feed live safely. That picture of a chewed up ball python is an EXTREME case of a bad owner just leaving a hungry rodent in with their ball python for days. Anyone with common sense would know not to do such things. I’d give a maximum of 5 minutes before taking the rodent out. If your snake doesn’t strike the rodent within 5 minutes, it’s probably not gonna at all.

Oh, and a tip, if you do feed live, try offering some food to the mouse before feeding it to your snake. That way the mouse is less likely to chew and eat off of your bp if the snake takes it’s time striking it.

Just my 2 cents.



01/04/05  02:38am
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 #212785


N2t
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  Message To: Pelota   In reference to Message Id: 212733


 I need some help.

the mouse usualy is actively trying to kill the reptile..u will notice alot of the damage on that snake around the head area..u can feed it if u want, mouse will still kill the snake if it can. Try to feed f/t or prekilled always, try hard, try often. Funny thing alot of people give advice on how to feed live without to much possability of a snake injury, but if u make sure your rodent is defrosted completely, there is almost NO chance of injury to the snake. F/t is better, period, there is absolutly no benafit to live, zero.



01/04/05  07:25am
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 #213661


Pelota
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  Message To: N2t   In reference to Message Id: 212785


 I need some help.

Okay....fair enough. But the thing is, I never said that feeding live is better than feeding frozen thawed or prekilled. All I was doing was simply explaining that there is a popular misconception that feeding live to your snake is like an automatic death sentence. You CAN feed live and have no problems. You just have to watch over the feeding carefully and stuff. You can’t just drop a rodent in the cage and walk away. That’s obviously asking for trouble.
As for the rodent trying to kill the snake....the way you described it, as soon as you drop a rodent in a snakes cage, the rodent runs to the snake to fight and kill it, as if rodents have a natural bloodlust for snakes. That’s not the case at all. 99% of the time, the rodent doesn’t even notice or seem to care that there’s a hungry snake watching its every move. The rodent usually sniffs around and checks things out. Then the snake makes it’s move and strikes.
And again, you mentioned that picture posted above. That is an EXTREME case. It’s not like if you try and feed your snake a live mouse or rat, it’ll end up like that in seconds or minutes even. That’s the results of a hungry rodent being left in a cage with a snake, and no food. Obviously the snake didn’t want to eat the rodent, and the rodent would of course become hungry. There’s the results. Any person with atleast a bit of common sense would know not to just drop a rodent in a cage and walk away. That person must have left the rodent in the cage for days. As I said, anyone with some common sense would know not to do that.

I myself feed frozen thawed. But I know there are breeders who have too many animals where it’d be impossible to switch them all over to frozen thawed or prekilled, and therefore it’d be easier to feed live. I suggest you contact Adam Wysocki of 8ballpythons.com and ask him his opinions on live feeding. He’s been breeding ball pythons for something like 30 years now, and feeds live 200+ times a week. 30 years of live feedings, at 200+ feedings a week, and he’s had no problems yet. So there must be something he’s doing right. According to you, and everyone else who seems to think live feeding is a death sentence, his snakes should be horribly scarred and dying from multiple rodent bites. If it was so unsafe to feed live, I’m sure he wouldn’t trust it with his bp morphs that are worth thousands...

-Cody



01/05/05  04:46am
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 #213683


Ace13
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  Message To: Pelota   In reference to Message Id: 213661


 I need some help.

as long as you supevise and make sure he eats instead of just putting it in an walking away it should be fine but i would still use frozen and just tap the mouse on his body to get him excited and strike thats what i do with my ratsnake and copperhead



01/05/05  05:27am
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 #213699


N2t
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  Message To: Ace13   In reference to Message Id: 213683


 I need some help.

I never mentioned the rodent having bloodlust..I stated the rodent will activly seek to defend itself..meaning hungry or not will not detur a bite. Also one bite can cause a nice vet bill, it doesn’t need to be hours, a partial miss can result in a rodent having the opertunity inflict a wound. Simply put..watching, being carefull etc are good idea..however there is still no benafit to feeding live the majority of the time, just alot of reasons not to.



01/05/05  07:57am
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 #214495


Pelota
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  Message To: N2t   In reference to Message Id: 213699


 I need some help.

About the hungry rodent thing, I mentioned that in reference to the leaving a rodent in with the snake for a long period of time.

When you drop in a live mouse, which is hungry, and your snake doesn’t have any interest in it right away or at all, the mouse will sooner or later start nibbling on the snake, using it as a food source. However, if you feed the mouse beforehand, it’ll be less likely to see the snake as a food source if the snake doesn’t strike it right away. As far as defending itself, I still say that a mouse or rat is usually too busy to bite the snake as it’s gasping for air trying to survive. If you were being crushed by this giant beast, and you couldn’t breathe, what would you be more worried about doing? Gasping for air to survive, or biting at this beast? I’d probably not have time to think, and just gasp for air.

As far as no benefit to feeding live, tell that to major breeders and see their response. They’ll most likely do what Adam Wysocki does, and invite you to come to their facility and try to switch 200+ snakes over to frozen thawed, then have them eat that consistently. Sorry, but no matter what you do, say, try, etc, some snakes will NEVER take frozen thawed or even prekilled, and therefore will have to be fed live. With breeders, they can’t afford to switch all their snakes to frozen thawed, and then feed only a select bunch live. It’s too much hassle. They’d be there for days and days trying to feed their animals. For breeders of hundreds of snakes, it’s just easier to feed live.

Of course, for the novice keeper, I recommend trying to feed prekilled or frozen thawed, but I’m trying to get a simple point across: It doesn’t make you a monster to feed live. Sure there are risks, but there are also risks in many other simple things in life. There’s a small chance you can walk outside and be struck down with lightning. The odds are you most likely won’t be, but there’s still that little chance. Guess people should stop going outside?



01/06/05  04:36am
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 #214530


N2t
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  Message To: Pelota   In reference to Message Id: 214495


 I need some help.

Funny, if u look at a few reputable breeders, you will see many of them have their snakes advertized as eating f/t. Also...yes a mouse capable of biting will do so. The mouse will chew on the snake reguardless, watch a mouse sometime..they don’t eat a meal then not eat for half an hour, they don’t work that way. Claiming only novice keepers should feed f/t is missinformation at it’s best. Many many quality breeders feed f/t. A few individual snakes will take only live, but these are the acceptions and the hastle, not the f/t feeders. Claiming feeding live for the big breeders as an advantage is a stretch at best..and probably untrue. I repeat, there is zero advantage to feeding live. You can’t leave it intank overnight with the lights out for finiky eaters, you can’t just feed and leave, you can’t keep a large amount of rodents onhand without constant care, live has zero advantage. Btw, I personaly know four or five people who keep herps who have had some kind of "accidnet" feeding live, I know noone who’s been struck by lightning...cute analogy..completely inaccurate.



01/06/05  08:03am
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 #214608


Djm4life666
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  Message To: N2t   In reference to Message Id: 214530


 I need some help.

can fuzzys cause injury to the snake? my snakes 7 months old. when does he move up to bigger j.w



01/06/05  10:26am
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 #214674


Eunectes4
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  Message To: Djm4life666   In reference to Message Id: 214608


 I need some help.

A fuzzy I would call a "harmless" prey. And anyone that does not think feeding live is dangerous is kidding themselves. It is very simple for a mouse to seriously hurt a snake and a rat is an easy death. I deffinitely have fed live but I am super carefull when I do it and I am standing there with something to put in the rodents mouth if it gets into a position to bite the snake. Usually you cannot do this before the rodent gets at least one bite though so its still risky. I am very happy ALL my snakes eat FT and I will NEVER put a live adult rat in with them. Feeding live you are just asking for trouble.



01/06/05  12:51pm
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 #214818


LazarusLong
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  Message To: Eunectes4   In reference to Message Id: 214674


 I need some help.

Whew, everyone freaks out every time anyone posts anything about live feeding on this forum. Pelota is right. It works for some snakes and some snake owners, and it doesn’t for others. I have fed live to thirty-odd snakes over the last 7 years and have never once had even the tiniest problem. How many of you people drive without seat belts on, or buy your kids Legos, or don’t have a Radon gas detector in your homes? Does that make you irresponsible? How many of you smoke around other people, have a pool in your yard? How many of you have stopped to consider the possibility of you or a family member contracting salmonella from your herp? Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn’t. Feeding live can work if you are alert, careful, and you pay attention. A lot of people adopt this holier-than-thou attitude on this forum and it sucks. Someone comes on here looking for information and gets an ear full instead.



01/06/05  04:44pm
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 #214845


N2t
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  Message To: LazarusLong   In reference to Message Id: 214818


 I need some help.

Um, I always wear my seatbelt, my daughter is to young for legos, choking hazard, no radon detector, don’t smoke, pool is covered when not in use and ladder is folded and stored inside, and salmonella is usualy caught through openings in the skin, or eaten, and from a moist area..snakes have dry skin, it would have to be fecal or a bite and I hope u always wash your hands if your snake poops on you and/or bites u and if bitten hopefully u use a mild antibiotic..... Accurate information is not givig an earfull, u may feed live etc etc, it still has no advantage...lots of arguements, but hard fact..f/t if accepted has all the advantages, live has none.



01/06/05  05:16pm
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 #214883


LazarusLong
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  Message To: N2t   In reference to Message Id: 214845


 I need some help.

Wait, I know! We can stop keeping real Ball Pythons and take care of stuffed animals instead! That would decrease the chance of hurting our pets EVEN FURTHER!
Heh heh. :)
I’m just kidding, N2t. I didn’t intend to offend you with my other post. I was attempting to offend all these rude and sarcastic people who waste time typing crap like, "omg your so stupid wtf" and "IF YOU FEED YOUR SNAKES LIVE THAN YOU SHOULD BE REPORTED TO AUTHORITIES!!!" I thought that your posts were thoughtful and you sound well educated, even if I disagree on some very small points. I was just using this thread to talk about a widespread problem on this forum.



01/06/05  05:47pm
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 #214982


N2t
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  Message To: LazarusLong   In reference to Message Id: 214883


 I need some help.

You are a complete moron, you know nothing about herps, and shoud be relegated to keeping small rocks. All your snake and or lizards have rabies, um um...and I hope u get tagged by a hot burm.... Anyway now that I’m done , np, I have no problem with a differance of opinion as long as it’s kept civil and not taken personaly. However you may no longer have your opinion seeing as how I have always been known as omni-impotent...which means all knowing right?



01/06/05  06:57pm
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 #214997


Roachey56
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  Message To: LazarusLong   In reference to Message Id: 214818


 I need some help.

"How many of you have stopped to consider the possibility of you or a family member contracting salmonella from your herp?"

That question should be rephrased to:
"How many of you have stopped to consider the possibility of you or your faimily contracting salmonella after eating their herps feces or touching their herps feces then putting it in their mouths without washing their hands?"



01/06/05  07:09pm
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 #215004


SCSnakeman
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  Message To: N2t   In reference to Message Id: 214982


 I need some help.

You guys crack me up! And people wonder why I get on this forum every day. Jeez, I’d sure hate to miss a single day!



01/06/05  07:12pm
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 #247148


Cjm
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  Message To: SCSnakeman   In reference to Message Id: 215004


 I need some help.

what kind of F#@$ hole would let that happen to a bp.......................W.T.F



02/12/05  10:43pm
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 #247200


Jdwoody
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  Message To: Cjm   In reference to Message Id: 247148


 I need some help.

Well, what i took from this little discussion is that I will stick to F/T forever!! Thanks!! I care for my snake too much to let him get hurt...even one bite would be enough for concern.



02/13/05  01:12am
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