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#203943
Spike-n-Drew
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She has just bitten him!!!! 
Hi there, my husband and i have just got 2 breeding ball pythons from a pet shop, i have read all the care sheets i can find but they dont really help with keeping 2 snakes in the same enclosure.We havent named them yet so they will be called ’him’ and ’her’ I’m afraid. They have always lived together so this is how we are going to be keeping them.
Previously, when they have been feed (before we got them) the chicks (frozen/thawed) were left on a plate for them to eat, now, they have both been looking for food so we put 2 chicks inside. ’She’ ate them both!! We put a 3rd in, right in front of ’him’ whilst ’she’ was the other side of the tank and just as he was about to strike she came ’running’ over, bit him and started wrapping herself round him then ate that chick too!.
I dont think she has done him any harm as i cant see any wounds or blood but she has really worried me!!
I have kept corn snakes together and have fed them both whilst they were still in the tank and have never had this happen before. We dont have a separate enclosure to be able to take one out to feed them so i am after some advice. The thing is, because she is obviously the more dominant one I’m not too sure how long it has been since he has been fed as I’m guessing there is the possibility she ate the chicks left on the plate for them.
They are both very healthy and there has been no problems up until now. I would really appreciate any advice you can give me!!!!!
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12/22/04 7:39pm
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#203966
BoaBabe448
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Message To: Spike-n-Drew In reference to Message Id: 203943
She has just bitten him!!!!
Ok well one, dont feed them chicks. Feed them mice. Two, you should NEVER feed snakes while they are in the same cage. Three, I would recommend seperating them, and checking the male out, cus I mean, how would you like to be constricted by your g/f?
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12/22/04 8:03pm
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#204067
Pelota
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Message To: Spike-n-Drew In reference to Message Id: 203943
She has just bitten him!!!!
Yeah....like it was said, feed them rodents, like mice or rats. Not chicks. And seperate the snakes and give them their own seperate cages. Breeding pairs or not, it’s not wise to keep two snakes together in one enclosure. It just raises too many hazards and problems down the road.
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12/22/04 9:47pm
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#204287
Spike-n-Drew
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Message To: Pelota In reference to Message Id: 204067
She has just bitten him!!!!
Ok, thanks, i will definately take him to the vets and get him checked over. I know everyone says that you shouldnt house snakes together but i had 2 corn snakes who lived together for 3 years and never had any problems with them, and as the pythons have always been together i got the impression that they would be ok too.As far as i am aware they have only ever been fed chicks, i will try feeding them rodents next time they are hungry but is there any reason why they shouldnt have chicks?
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12/23/04 6:19am
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#204300
BoaBabe448
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Message To: Spike-n-Drew In reference to Message Id: 204287
She has just bitten him!!!!
Chicks can carry salmonella, and they are very bad for them. I really think you need to seperate them. You shouldn’t hosue any snakes together.
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12/23/04 7:21am
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#204801
Munkyboy
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Message To: Spike-n-Drew In reference to Message Id: 204287
She has just bitten him!!!!
Until you can permanently separate them, you could simply put the male in a Rubbermaid container at feeding times in order to at least make sure that he can eat too. Switch to rats. 
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12/23/04 9:32pm
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#204994
T-E-G-U- K-I-D
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Message To: Munkyboy In reference to Message Id: 204801
She has just bitten him!!!!
I have two ball pythons in the same cage and take the smaller less dominant one out and put him in a rubbermaid box and feed him and close the lid. Then i feed the female in her cage. I works pretty welll.
JJ
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12/24/04 2:51am
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#204999
Ceiron
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Message To: T-E-G-U- In reference to Message Id: 204994
She has just bitten him!!!!
thers no reason not to keep snakes together, if they get on fine then leave them be. with regards to feeding, you can use a staple of chicks however rats and mice are preferable. chicks dont really have the same nutrition as rodents however some snakes wont touch rodents and i know a few that live happily on chicks. as has been said, take them out to feed in a seperate box. it may take a few feeds for them to get used to this but perservere. if you have any more questions feel free to ask.
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12/24/04 3:42am
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#205055
SCSnakeman
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Message To: Ceiron In reference to Message Id: 204999
She has just bitten him!!!!
Plus around here anyway chicks are more expensive than mice and harder to find in certain times of the year.
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12/24/04 8:22am
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#205372
Ceiron
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Message To: SCSnakeman In reference to Message Id: 205055
She has just bitten him!!!!
more expensive? wtf? they practically thro them out near me. although i do live in the uk.
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12/24/04 8:53pm
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#207058
Spike-n-Drew
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Message To: Ceiron In reference to Message Id: 205372
She has just bitten him!!!!
We tried feeding him a rat yesterday, we took him out of the tank and put him in a large container but he never ate it. Does anyone have any suggestions how to switch them from chicks to rats/mice, i know it will take a while for them to adjust because they have always been fed on chicks but i’d prefer not to run the risk of them getting ill. As for the price differences, we are in Jersey, CI, and it costs 12p for a chick and between 40p - 80p for a mouse or a rat depending on the size from the pet shop. I have been considering buying food from the internet so if any one can recommend a good site it would be much appreciated.
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12/28/04 8:35am
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#207072
BoaBabe448
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Message To: Spike-n-Drew In reference to Message Id: 207058
She has just bitten him!!!!
www.rondentpro.com
www.miceonice.com
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12/28/04 9:08am
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#207092
Munkyboy
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Message To: Spike-n-Drew In reference to Message Id: 207058
She has just bitten him!!!!
You may want to try scenting your rodents with the chicks. Simply rub the chick all over the mouse or rat in order to get the chick scent on the rodent. If that doesn’t work, try feeding the chick followed immediately by feeding the rodent. You may have to do this a few times before he gets used to eating rodents. Good luck!Try rodentpro.com like Boababe said for a good online source for rodents.
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12/28/04 10:24am
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#207349
Eunectes4
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Message To: Munkyboy In reference to Message Id: 207092
She has just bitten him!!!!
I am always amazed at the advice given on here and people who seem so sure of themselves. This question should answer itself to be honest. One snake is not dominant..ball pythons dont really establish that where one sex would be dominant over the other (but since i am not a ball python i will just drop that now and leave them to think what they want). Either way, you have one snake who is causing the other not to be able to eat. This is 100% your fault for trying to feed them like that and you are lucky you have made it this long with 2 snakes. I know you are going to think this is harsh and not want to listen, but my recomendation would be to just take a deep breath and listen to the advice. There are a TON of reasons not to house snakes together and if you need pictures of snakes eating other snakes (ones that supposedly are not "snake eaters" then i will do that). Any carnivore is a potential cannibal...thats reason enough to house separate. If one snake is trying to eat and the other snake refuses to give up the meal but is obviously loosing..they will BE a meal before long, thats how their world works. I am aware you have kept two corns together and nothing happened, I would consider this a "chance" and maybe "luck" over any kind of accurate case study you think you have performed on the snake population. Besides, you are trying to compare corn snakes to ball pythons (I dont have to tell you that is silly to think all snakes behave the same way...even among species there is tremendous variation...thats why you should not house snakes together). If you absolutely will not house your snakes separately then take the other snake out while feeding...nobody should really need to even say that..its obvious. As far as feeding chicks, they are not horrible and many snakes will prefer them...it is to your great benefit to get on rodents though and I can tell you a few ways i have made the change. There can be long term effects from feeding chicks to snakes and it would be a more healthy choice to switch them over. Adult animals like adult rats are much healthier than day old or even juvenile anything. Your ball python will never be able to eat an adult chicken so they will always be lacking in the nutritional value and shortened life could be your consequence. Try rubbing an ft chick all over an ft rat and maybe even put some of the chick blood on it...over time you can scent less and less until they will take an unscented rat. If you are not having luck you can tie a smaller rat to the chick so they are forced to eat both. This has worked for me getting them going but be sure to use a 100% cotton string and not nylon.
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12/28/04 2:58pm
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#207606
Spike-n-Drew
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Message To: Eunectes4 In reference to Message Id: 207349
She has just bitten him!!!!
I do not understand your first comment about ’people who seem so sure of themselves’ as from what i have read, you have given me the same advice as the majority of people who have been kind enough to reply!Without sounding rude, rather than getting frustrated, you should share your information with others by creating a care sheet and posting it in the relevant area. Yes, i am to blame for her biting him and will not be making that mistake again!!!! As i said in the last post, we have tried and will keep trying to feed him in a seperate container, i will try rubbing the mouse/rat with the chick and see if he eats that, if not i will try giving him the chick first. We are currently making some space (we already have 2 beardies, 2 water dragons and a milk snake) so we can build another vivarium and seperate them if needs be. Oh, and thanks for the links 
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12/28/04 7:21pm
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#207718
Eunectes4
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Message To: Spike-n-Drew In reference to Message Id: 207606
She has just bitten him!!!!
My comment of bad advice was primarily focused on Ceiron saying there is no reason snakes cannot be housed together. This is terrible advice and speaking so surely can easily allow someone to believe this is an alright action. My advice is sometimes very harsh I am sorry but I answer a ton of posts on here and I want to get a bold point out quickly.also, there is no need for more caresheets. Like you stated, you have read plenty. And the reason you have not read things on housing two ball pythons together is because it should not be done. I am sure you have hit some sources that tell you that but i will assume you missed it. You do not have to take everything you hear and you can do things your own way but i would wait until you are more experienced to do so (until now you should listen to a source you trust)...i am willing to believe the petstore told you it was alright to house them together despite what caresheets say. This means it is not your fault. I am here to offer the extreme advice of the risk you are putting on the snakes. In many cases I am very nice on here and it can be almost like a little family...those are with much lighter topics though. This thread was severe no no’s. I am not willing to support the keeping of these snakes together when they have already displayed problems in front of your face. to Be nice and polite makes it seem like it isnt a big deal. In your post you sounded shocked to see the snake ate both chicks and went for the third...I am not suprised this is what it not only does do but "should" do in order to survive. They are not puppies and the chicks are not treats..they see them as prey(even ft) and will take the chance when it is presented (consider yourself lucky to have that great female and house her separate and work on that male). If these snakes are an adult pair then I hope your female is of good weight because you can kill her by having her with the male and becoming egg bound could mean death. Housing together can also cause a ton of stress and they might take mating oportunity frequently and stress them out to the point your male can even die. These are only a few risks you run into with housing ball pythons together. I have seen quite a few things today i would think are obviouse and people that need to have their hand held this much leads me to believe they should not be careing for animals lives (not a shot at you). I read a post on KS today that asked what they can do to stop their rodent order and make it smaller...they asked for people to respond quickly. Does that not sound incredibly stupid to you? They should not be on the internet asking a forum that can take days to respond..they should be on the phone with rodent pro. It is scary these people were keeping a burmese python. Now your question was how to get the male to eat when the female is eating all the food...the most basic and best answer is to remove the female. I could say use a divider and come up with all sorts of goofy things to try but that is just silly when the best answer is right there. Once again...not to be mean I just wish you the best and I hope you figure it out and both snakes work out for you. Take care and more good luck and best wishes.
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12/28/04 8:46pm
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#208049
Spike-n-Drew
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Message To: Eunectes4 In reference to Message Id: 207718
She has just bitten him!!!!
Maybe i took your post a little too harshly for which i apologise.The petshop where we got them from told me that they have always been kept together and therefore were only going to be sold as a pair, this information led me to believe that keeping them together was the correct thing to do. There are caresheets which say that they can be housed together but its not necessarily recommended, so, stupidly on my part, i thought that if these have been ok up to now there shouldnt be any problems. My husband and i will be building a 3 tier vivarium allowing us to seperate them and make the empty tank larger so we can use this as a breeding tank. I only want what is best for them and really do appreciate your views and information.
Where i am from, reptiles are not a common ’pet’ therefore there is not alot of information available which is why i chose to visit this forum and learn from everyone elses views and experiences.
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12/29/04 7:12am
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#208351
Eunectes4
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Message To: Spike-n-Drew In reference to Message Id: 208049
She has just bitten him!!!!
sounds like you have the right idea going now. Look into your woods when building because when you expose a snake 24 hours a day to certain woods under heat and humidity you are at risk of toxin problems. There is even some things though of as alright to use but once you add the 24 hour exposure factor it really is difficult to know the effects that can occur. Bedding is even worse with levels of phenol the snake is exposed too so pick carefully. I like to use newspaper and carpet is my favorite substrate. It is very cheap (less than 1$ a square ft for many types) and it can be thrown away so you know it is sterile. Good luck and keep us posted.
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12/29/04 5:32pm
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#208778
Spike-n-Drew
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Message To: Eunectes4 In reference to Message Id: 208351
She has just bitten him!!!!
I tried feeding him again last night in a seperate container but he never took the food, i offered him both a mouse and a chick but he didnt seem interested in either, he just went to it, gave it a few licks and went away. He did this a few times so we held them up to a light to try and warm them up a bit more and he did the same again and went into the hide we place in there for him. We had all the lights turned down and left him for about 1 1/2 hours to see if he would take them in his own time but he didnt really seem bothered by them. As i said before i dont know the last time he ate because the pet shop had left 2 chicks in their enclosure but im guessing ’she’ ate them both, im not panicking too much as he is very healthy and a good weight but i would prefer to see him eat sooner rather than later. I dont want to stress him out any more than he may already be by offering him food too often, how long shall i leave it before trying him again?We have had them for about 2 weeks, she seems to have settled in perfectly and is fine about me handling her etc and he is getting used to me handling him now, the first couple of times he stayed curled in a ball but last night he started in a ball but then i think he realised that i wasnt going to hurt him and chilled out.
Oh and they are both approx. 4ft and are both a bit thinner than a coke can (i dont think i mentioned their size etc before)
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12/30/04 9:04am
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#208813
Ceiron
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Message To: Spike-n-Drew In reference to Message Id: 208778
She has just bitten him!!!!
ty for reply aimed at me, would of been nice if your addressed the post at me though. snakes can be kept together, as long as they dont attack each other and they are healthy is fine, i know lots of snakes kept together including bp’s, i dont claim to know everything however i know there is nothing wrong with keeping certain snakes together, do snakes not live toghether in the wild????? yes and as an animal keeper myself for a safari park i think my advicce and knowledge has some experience to it. if you dont like keeping your snakes together then thats fine, however telling people they cannot is both wrong and dangerous. some species of snakes prefer to be housed together some in large groups actually. if you want to debate my husbandry skills then do it privately thanks.
btw with regards to the bp’s feeding, as its winter they probably are in slow down and so i’d give them a couple more weeks before even starting to worry. just keep trying what your doing and seee how it goes.
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12/30/04 10:56am
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#208861
Spike-n-Drew
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Message To: Ceiron In reference to Message Id: 208813
She has just bitten him!!!!
I wasnt too sure if he wasnt eating coz he is still abit unsettled, she is eating perfectly and they are always snuggled up with each other so its not as if they are experiencing different temps etc.
With regards to the housing bit, i was and i suppose i still am, a bit confused because i have read information which says that they can be successfully housed together but then somewhere else it says not to.
I am still looking at seperating them as id rather be safe then sorry!
Not too sure if this has any relevance but....
We only have a small zoo where we are from and they have at roughly 4 pythons in each room, granted, i think they are burmese and i know they are different to ball pythons, but..... they still have the same instincts. They have successfully bred them and im guessing they havent had any trouble with them as they are still all together.
Obviously they are kept in large rooms but surely the risks are still there? Ive never seen a zoo/safari park that keeps each snake in an individual enclosure which also adds to the confusion when people are adament not to keep snakes together no matter what species.
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12/30/04 12:42pm
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#208914
Blue eyes
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Message To: Spike-n-Drew In reference to Message Id: 208861
She has just bitten him!!!!
I don’t post in here very often at all, and I do not own a bp. I have read a great deal for future reference, so it’s not like I’m coming out of nowhere posting in here. You said it is better to be safe than sorry and that is the best way to look at any highly debated husbandry topic in my opinion, no matter what kind of animal it may be.
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12/30/04 2:53pm
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#208938
SCSnakeman
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Message To: Blue In reference to Message Id: 208914
She has just bitten him!!!!
Well said, Blue Eyes.
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12/30/04 3:23pm
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#208962
Blue eyes
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Message To: SCSnakeman In reference to Message Id: 208938
She has just bitten him!!!!
Thank you! I don’t see the point in unnecessary risks. I have lost 4 animals this year and that makes my feelings on the subject even stronger. Although none of my losses were my fault I don’t understand why people would want to chance hurting their animals.
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12/30/04 3:45pm
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#209003
Eunectes4
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Message To: Blue In reference to Message Id: 208962
She has just bitten him!!!!
Ceiron is right that being winter it is very common to see ball pythons refuse food and I would not be at all concerned at the moment. Also, just because the female takes chicks does not mean the male ever took them so you may want to stick with rats (I would say try live but I would not do that until you are further along since they can be a huge risk especially to an animal that does not appear interested in food). You can also try and eliminate all light. I have some snakes that will only eat in complete privacy and dark so try that and leave the ft rat in for longer..maybe overnight). Now to Ceiron, this person had stated they were housed together and one is eating the food and has bitten and contricted the other snake. After people said to remove the snake, you made a post saying there is nothing wrong with keeping snakes together. Do you think this was just a fluke occurance and if she keeps them together there will like be no problems or do you believe the best thing to do would be to separate the snake? Whether or not snakes CAN be housed together in certain situations or not is irrelavant...she has witnessed a number of problems with housing them together so it would appear to make perfect sense to house separately. Besides, there is no advantage to a private keeper housing snakes together. To do so you should use more than twice the adequate caging for one snake so you are actually loosing space. A zoo and types of displays do use larger enclosures and it is much more acceptable than the fish tanks used by private individuals. I am not going to debate your husbandry skills but i will debate that snakes found together in the wild is a completely different situation than you housing them together in a snake room. They will be found together when breeding and for conservation of heat in some cases...if you are not breeding and you are providing the perfect environment for a thriving animal then there is no need for them to seek a warm space which is possibly being used by another snake. Also, I would love to see photos of wild ball pythons in groups. The are not like a little social mammal like a sugar glider which is recomended to be housed with others...they do not prefer the company of anything else but food and a mate (and then only for a short period) if they have a clean and controled environment. Anyway, I am not here to debate this or your husbandry or experience so if you feel comfortable with something by all means do it if you feel confident. I am here to explain to this person the extreme risks they are placing on the snake and the difficulties they are placing on themself due to trying to house these animals together. Once they feel they have the wisdom and experience like you, they can make an educated descision on whether or not they can or should attempt housing certain snakes together. Right now she has ball pythons that should not be housed together...lets deal with that.
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12/30/04 4:48pm
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#209454
Ceiron
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Message To: Eunectes4 In reference to Message Id: 209003
She has just bitten him!!!!
i see where your coming from now and my orignall post needs rewiting, what i was trying to say is that snakes in general can be housed together, i wasnt saying tha there wasnt any problems with housing her snakes toghether as there obviously is, for this i apologise, i will have to try and make myself clearer in the future. although imo if they both feed in seperat feeding tanks i dont see why they cannot be housed together, however its personal preferance. i would be inclined in this case to say seperate them to try and get the male feeding properly just to make it clearer and easier for the person in question.
with regards to sizing of housing, it depends on the individual snakes, as some bp’s prefer tiny enclosures where others will relish the space. howver this is a different debate and has no relevance to this case in question.
thanks
ceiron
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12/31/04 7:29am
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