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Chevron 42 Chevron 42 Carpet Blood Ball Miniannalee Miniannalee Marg Marg Anouk Anouk Chevron 42 Anouk Marg Marg Chevron 42 Chevron 42 Anouk Anouk Edf Chevron 42 Marg Shawn78 Marg Chevron 42 Marg |
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Chevron 42 View Profile |
Unsure about current (new) setup
I don’t have time do as full a documentary as I’d like, but here are the basics: (images of setup at bottom) The snake is a 1 year old Ball python, about 3 feet long. I have a 40 gallon breeder tank (36x18 base), and the bottom is lined with a Zilla terrarium liner. There is a water dish in the middle of the tank, a piece of driftwood that goes about 3/4 of the way across the tank, and a fairly large half-log which I recently stuffed with newsprint on the outward facing side to make darker. Lighting: I have a 3-bulb light fixture with a reptile fluorescent long-bulb (though I don’t believe that is necessary for anything other than providing light, BP’s don’t need the UV supplement right?) and a 100 watt red-night bulb that I leave on 24/7 for heat. I also had a 150 watt daylight blue bulb, but that exploded this morning (either too high a wattage or because the room was at 70% humidity) so I’m getting a 100 watt one to replace it. As seen in the pictures I put in a thermometer/hygrometer from Home Depot that gives the temperature on each side of the cage, which with the daylight bulb was around 83 on the warm side and 77 on the cooler one. The humidity was around 35-40%, so I put a humidifier in the alcove of the room with the tank and it is holding around 50-55% (though it is making the room slightly uncomfortably muggy). Without the day bulb (but during the day) the temperature right now is 68 on the cool and 73 on the warm side. That probably means that at night it gets cooler than that on each, as I leave the red heat bulb as the only heat source. Feeding: His previous owners said he hadn’t eaten for about 2 weeks before I adopted him, so I fed him a mouse (adult frozen from Petco) the second day here (last Thursday), and he snatched it right away. I fed him again yesterday night because the mouse looked small and I know they sometimes want to eat about once a week, and this time I fed him a small rat. Does the rule of feeding them something the size of the largest coil in their body apply even if their head is only a fraction of that size? He got the rat down in about 5-10 minutes with a lot of stretching in his neck to get it in, but it seemed to go down fine. Here are the images. They were taken quickly and right with only the red bulb on, so they’re not the best quality. If I have time and it seems a good idea I’ll take better ones and post those.
So, my questions: 1. Is there a better way to keep the humidity up than by running a humidifier in my room all the time? 2. Should I have a better hide-box than a closed off, large, half log? 3. Should I get an under-tank heater to supplement the heat bulb? It seems a bit cool in there based on the recommended temperatures I’ve seen. If I should, would it be best to put it under the hiding spot, as that’s the place not receiving direct radiant heat from the bulb? 4. Based on the images, is there some gross oversight I’ve made, should anything be drastically changed or should some totally missing element be added to the tank? 5. Is a small rat probably the right thing to feed a 3-foot, 1 year old BP? 6. Should I assume that feeding him once every 7-10 days will work, and if he isn’t hungry he just won’t take the food? Also if he doesn’t, I don’t suppose I can re-freeze it right? 7. He hasn’t released any excrement from his first mouse last Thursday (that I have seen, I suppose it’s possible I’m not finding the soiled spot), should I be worried about his digestion? 8. Anything else helpful anyone can say? Thanks in advance for any advice. |
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| 10/14/09 11:55am |
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Chevron 42 View Profile |
Message To: Chevron 42 In reference to Message Id: 2083829 Unsure about current (new) setup
I know this next one is blurry, but it’s to give a sense of how he looks swallowing an adult mouse and whether that food is too small.
And this one is just to show what he looks like/his size.
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| 10/14/09 12:11pm |
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Carpet Blood Ball View Profile |
Message To: Chevron 42 In reference to Message Id: 2083834
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| 10/14/09 01:47pm |
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Miniannalee View Profile |
Message To: Chevron 42 In reference to Message Id: 2083829 Unsure about current (new) setup
Don’t feed hiim more often than every 7-10 days. To keep the humidity up mist the cage everyday. Having the cage right under a window might dry out the cage so I’d suggest covering part of the screen lid to prevent it from drying out. Rats are more nutrious than mice. You can’t re-freeze a thawed rat. It usually takes about a week to poop sometimes less. You might want to get a heavier water bowl because he is likely to tip that one over. I hope this helps. Good luck with your new guy. Have you named him yet? |
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| 10/14/09 02:03pm |
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Miniannalee View Profile |
Message To: Chevron 42 In reference to Message Id: 2083829 Unsure about current (new) setup
Don’t feed him more often than every 7-10 days. To keep the humidity up mist the cage everyday. Having the cage right under a window might dry out the cage so I’d suggest covering part of the screen lid to prevent it from drying out. Rats are more nutritious than mice. You can’t re-freeze a thawed rat. It usually takes about a week to poop sometimes less. You might want to get a heavier water bowl because he is likely to tip that one over. I hope this helps. Good luck with your new guy. Have you named him yet? |
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| 10/14/09 02:04pm |
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Marg View Profile |
Message To: Chevron 42 In reference to Message Id: 2083834 Unsure about current (new) setup
Some of the information given is correct. Here is a link to a post you should read... * * SETTING UP YOUR ENCLOSURE... Lots of info on everything you need... titles change pertinent to info given. I use the same enclosure you have... most of the info in this post is from MY set up and care of my BPs. Hides: You do need 2 hides, but not Log hides. Log hides are only good for decoration, and kindling for a bonfire. Heat Source: You need Belly Heat (heat pad) large enough to cover 1/3 to 1/2 of the enclosure. I use a 11" x 17" Ultratherm in each of my enclosures... Controled by a Thermostat! Heat lamps are Not Necessary... However, they Can be used, if extra heat is needed. * During the winter season, when it is very cold.. I use a heat lamp on the cool side... with slide dimmer switches (got mine at Home Depot- Lighting Dept). You plug the dimmer into the wall, and plug the light into the dimmer. There is an LED light that will get brighter when you turn the setting Lower, and dims when setting Higher... many get confudes with this... I know I did... lol Heat lamps will dry up humidity though. Thermometer/Hydrometer: Temps should read: Warm Side: between 90f - 94f (32.22C - 34.44 C) Cool Side:between 80f - 84f (26.67 C - 28.89 C) Humidity: between 50-60% (70% when in shed) *although some prefer to use lower temps, but personally, I would not go too much lower. the Probe goes Inside the Warm hide (dont attach it to the hide - makes for a pain when cleaning) again... The Unit goes on cool side... near the bottom of enclosure In temp = Cool side temp Out temp = Warm side temp Bottom Reading = Humidity Level The heat provided should be obtained by using a UTH (under Tank Heater) Controlled by a Thermostat, or a dimmer switch at the least! Controling Humidity: You can... Cover almost the whole screen top with Duct Tape (or Foil Duct Tape), leaving an area for ventilation NO TAPE OF ANY KIND INSIDE ENCLOSURE This could be very traumatic for both you and the snake... They tend to find their way under an edge, and become entangled in the tape! (there is a recent thread about this happening to another member here) You can also... Cover most of the screen top with some sort of board (no pine or cedar). I use 2 peices of cardboard covered with aluminum foil... over lapping edges... so that If I need to adjust humidity (with weather changes) I can slide it opened or closed, as needed. You can also... Get some Plexiglass to cover most of the screen top... or a piece to cove the whole top, and have holes drilled into it... then you can cover/open holes as needed to adjust humidity (similar to tub set ups). Substrate/bedding: Almost anything Can be used... News Paper (unprinted can be found), Cypress Mulch, Aspen (not shredded Pine), Reptile Turf (astro turf), etc. Anything Except Pine, Cedar, or Sand. Pine and Cedar have oils Toxic to All Reptiles (causes neurolgical problems) All of this, and more is in the link I provided. Marg P.S. If you have any other questions/concerns... Please feel free to ask :o) |
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| 10/14/09 10:14pm |
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Marg View Profile |
Message To: Marg In reference to Message Id: 2084053 Unsure about current (new) setup
seems I have a lot of typos - rofl long day... Here is a pic of one of my set ups This is an old pic... I need new ones ...they have more vines in them now... aprrox 18 - 24 ft in each enclosure... As you can see... I believe in lots of greenery :o) My temps humidity are at a constant... 90.8 warm side 81.2 cool side 55% humidity
Marg |
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| 10/14/09 10:57pm |
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Anouk View Profile |
Message To: Marg In reference to Message Id: 2084074 Unsure about current (new) setup
Here is his enclosure. I use EcoEarth coconut fiber substrate because that helps me maintain the humidity, especially since I have to use a ceramic heat lamp to keep the cool side temps up. I still have his old red light set up, but I don’t use it anymore except to turn it on if i hear him making noise is his tank in the middle of the night! To keep humidity you could also cover most of the screen top with tin foil. Just don’t use any tape, like the Setting Up Your Enclosure thread says. Even if you think there is no way the snake can get tangled up in it, they can. A forum member and his snake recently had a mishap with tape. I also can’t stress enough the importance of a thermostat with an under tank heater. I didn’t use one at first and the heater got so hot it shattered the glass on the bottom of his enclosure. I was very lucky my snake was not injured or killed. One last thing, Welcome to the forum!!!!
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| 10/15/09 07:30am |
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Anouk View Profile |
Message To: Anouk In reference to Message Id: 2084170 Unsure about current (new) setup
Quote: To keep humidity you could also cover most of the screen top with tin foil.
The Setting Up Your Enclosure thread had much better suggestions. Don’t know how I missed that before. I might be making some changes too! Oh, one other thing. Not all thermostats are the same. I was told it was better to spend a bit more for a quality one rather than use the cheaper less precise ones. Of course, I didn’t listen. When I get tired enough of having to tweak it daily I’ll have to get a new one. A lot of the more experienced members could tell you which ones work best. |
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| 10/15/09 08:12am |
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Chevron 42 View Profile |
Message To: Anouk In reference to Message Id: 2084180 Unsure about current (new) setup
I had picked up a 30-40 gallon UTH (Zoomed, 12"x8", 16W) from Petco, but after looking at some of the links provided in the Setting Up Your Enclosure thread, it seems like there are some larger ones for less money available online. I believe Marg is suggesting using an 11" x 17" pad for what I believe was a 40 gallon tank. Is there a reason that’s about double the area of the Z0oomed 30-40 gallon pad? I put together a small shopping cart at reptilesupply.com. Right now it includes: -2 Exo Terra Medium Reptile Caves (9" x 6" and 3.5" high); is that the right size? -Medium corner bowl Link; again, does that seem like an acceptable size? -And a heating pad: there are a few options available, and I was wondering if anyone has any experience/advice concerning which is best: This one Link is 10.5" x 11", about the size of Zoomed’s 40 gallon pad, and the same wattage (16W). This one Link is 11" x 17", and 25W. What worries me is that one of the reviews claims that it "burned a hole through itself". I realize that every product will malfunction every now and again though and that might not be a typical occurrence. And there is this one Link that is also 11" x 17", 12W, and hasn’t gotten any reviews. There’s also a 10" x 11" 8W pad in the same brand. Will misting the cage really maintain humidity throughout the day? For context, with two heat bulbs running (seems like the best thing to do in the mean time as there’s no other heat source for the tank until I decide on a pad), and a humidifier in the same alcove of the room, the humidity is only 35-45% through the day when I don’t mist. I’ll try covering the top and misting today. Here are some more pictures to give a sense of his size, which should help with answering my inquiries about the hiding cave and water dish, and also help in general I suppose:
I really appreciate the responses and hope you can help with these as well. Thanks! |
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| 10/18/09 03:00pm |
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Anouk View Profile |
Message To: Chevron 42 In reference to Message Id: 2085525 Unsure about current (new) setup
The water bowl, I wouldn’t waste the money. Anouk had that type at first. It was very hard to clean and always felt slimy. I got a skid resistant / tip resistant plastic dog bowl for about $6 and it seems to stay much cleaner. |
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| 10/18/09 09:41pm |
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Marg View Profile |
Message To: Chevron 42 In reference to Message Id: 2085525 Unsure about current (new) setup
For UTHs, I use the Ultratherm brand. As for the Hides.. I use Exotera... the medium would probably be sufficiant.. If you are not sure... some thing you can do is... get a sock... fill it with dry beans, or marbles, or whatever... fill it to abot how big your snake is when all curled up... take it with you to a pet store that carries the hide you like... stuff the sock inside the hide. If it fits... yer good to go - or - find a different hide it Will fit in. Make sure there are No Sharp Edges that the snake can get Cut on... I found a lovely natural rock looking hide... I was so excited it looked real... I did not check the edges... and my poor snake got a nice size scratch all the way up the bottom half of her body. No blood... thankfully ...but I was beside myself with the fact I did not check for sharps. Here is a Link to a thread with a lil detail.. This is my run down of supplies for each of my enclosures... Quote: My set ups cost me nearly $1,000 (for both) to get them where they are now. Not saying you don’t have the resources, but it can ge costly. ...here’s a break down of what mine cost... for each tank $214.99 for 1 Tank $ 18.99 for 1 UTH (11" x 18") $ 39.99 for 1 dial type Thermostat (cheap, but it works for me) $ 18.99 for 1 large Exotera water dish $ 38.97 for 2 X-Large Exotera hides (smaller hides will be less regular Large hides are not proportionate for BPs, more suitable for Corns) $ 6.00 for 18 ft of vines ($1 each for 3 ft vine [local $1 store] 3 vines in each enclosure) $ 11.88 for 1 Therm/hydrometer $ 6.99 for 1 large bag of substrate (Aspen) [every 2 mos for Both enclosures] $ 5.99 for 1 breaker bar (too many plugs for 1 outlet - LoL) $ 19.99 for 1 Flukers heat lamp bell $ 4.99 for 1 75 watt heat lamp bulb $ 9.97 for 1 dimmer switch (for heat light) $ 4.99 for 1 drop cloth (background - fabric found at Micheals) $ 9.99 for 1 ceramic tree (decoration/holds up vines) $ 2.99 for 1 small padlock (have a small child, can never be too careful) Grand total of $380.85 + taxes - for Each of my enclosures... Plus the $249.00 I paid for the cabinet they are both displayed on. The heat in my apt is set at 78 year round... the only time I use the heat lamps is on very cold days, dimmers only set at less than half. Marg |
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| 10/19/09 05:49pm |
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Marg View Profile |
Message To: Marg In reference to Message Id: 2086030 Unsure about current (new) setup
small, med, and XLarge hides are appropriate for BPs... I ordered a regular "Large" Exotera Rock Cave, and when I recieved it... I found it was too flat for a BP. May be suitable for a Corn or very small BP... I believe it was from rep supply... and they were willing to exchange, but.... the cost of shipping back and forth... I would have only gotten maybe $5 credit.. lol  |
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| 10/19/09 06:06pm |
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Chevron 42 View Profile |
Message To: Marg In reference to Message Id: 2086043 Unsure about current (new) setup
As a side note, how should I place the probe end of my thermometer? Should it be inside the warm hide, as I’ve seen recommended, or just sitting on the warm side? Thanks again for all the help! |
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| 10/19/09 08:07pm |
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Chevron 42 View Profile |
Message To: Chevron 42 In reference to Message Id: 2086092 Unsure about current (new) setup
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| 10/19/09 08:17pm |
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Anouk View Profile |
Message To: Chevron 42 In reference to Message Id: 2086098 Unsure about current (new) setup
Put the probe of the thermometer in the inside of your warm hide as close to the glass bottom as you can. Then put the main unit right outside your cool hide. |
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| 10/19/09 08:45pm |
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Anouk View Profile |
Message To: Anouk In reference to Message Id: 2086115 Unsure about current (new) setup
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| 10/19/09 08:52pm |
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Edf View Profile |
Message To: Chevron 42 In reference to Message Id: 2086092 Unsure about current (new) setup
Overheating can happen with any size UTH- that is what your dimmer switch is for. Make sure you know wich way the dial goes to warm up verses cool down, and just check it several times when its in the warm up stage. And if the room temp changes, your snakes cage temp is gonna change. So as long as you check on the temps you will be good. Plus, if it gets a bit warmer than wanted- since only 1/3rd of your tank is covered by the UTH, the snake will have a cool spot to retreat to that isn’t covered by the UTH. As for probe placement- anywhere over the UTH would work. I tuck them under the warm side hide in attempts to make it so the snake doesn’t push it off. Some still do if they really want to, but the weight of the hide will help keep it in place. On a side note to Marg- Quote: I found it was too flat for a BP. In reference to the large exo terra hide- not to argue with you, but I use this size for a lot of my snakes, and they fit in it just fine. True, sometimes it lifts up a bit, but as long as the snake feels like it is hiding it works. Like any hide tho, once they outgrow it ( dont use it) or if the snake already is just plain too big, it wont fit in it anymore. But it is best to see them at stores to judge if your snake will fit into it as apposed to online where it is harder to tell. |
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| 10/19/09 08:57pm |
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Chevron 42 View Profile |
Message To: Edf In reference to Message Id: 2086125 Unsure about current (new) setup
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| 10/19/09 11:47pm |
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Marg View Profile |
Message To: Chevron 42 In reference to Message Id: 2086208 Unsure about current (new) setup
Quote: should I be getting the 11" x 17" or the 11" x 11" pad I use the 11" x 17"
Quote: how should I place the probe end of my thermometer?
As a side note, how should I place the probe end of my thermometer? Quote: * * PROBE PLACEMENT... Goes in enclosure like so: There is a hide behind the water dish, under the vines... lol old pic, more stuff in them now.
Unit goes in cool side (inside enclosure, 2" from bottom) Wire thingy with probe goes in warm side hide. Reads like so: In: cool side temps Out: warm side temps humidity- bottom reading Quote: * * Thermostat... For $40... This is the one I use right now. I have had it for 3 yrs, and only need to adjust it when the weather/season changes.
It is a Dial Type Thermostat. Some do not care for these, or even this particular Brand... but it works for me :o) You can plug 2 UTHs/heat sources into the unit, but if you use this type, make sure the wattage is ok for the unit. As for the UTH placement... this is how I do mine... Link
Quote: How to place the UTH
Place the UTH "long ways" from the end, as shown in the pic. The UTH should be no more than Half of the length of the enclosure (1/3 is recommended), and as wide as possible, to the width. "Wide as possible" because you need heat in the warm side, other than In the hide. If you just have a UTH that is only as wide as the Hide, you will have problems heating the Entire Enclosure. I think this is where most people have temp issues! If the UTH is only as wide as the hide, you will only getting heat in the hide. If you have a UTH that is Wider than the hide, you have heat under/in the whole of the enclosure. Kinda like having a "space heater", You have a "space heater" pointing toward you in a cold room... you are warm... but the rest of the room is cold. Make sence? Janet... you never have to argue :o) Your input is greatly apreciated... maybe I just got a flatter hide than you have - lol Marg |
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| 10/20/09 01:02am |
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Shawn78 View Profile |
Message To: Marg In reference to Message Id: 2086226 Unsure about current (new) setup
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| 10/20/09 10:00pm |
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Marg View Profile |
Message To: Chevron 42 In reference to Message Id: 2083834 Unsure about current (new) setup
Quote: Does the rule of feeding them something the size of the largest coil in their body apply even if their head is only a fraction of that size? He got the rat down in about 5-10 minutes with a lot of stretching in his neck to get it in
Now... this is an African Rock Python ..but the same concept applies...
You can see the hind end of the snake.. compared to the head size.. stretched Although they Can consume a larger prey item, does not mean they should. |
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| 10/21/09 06:34pm |
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Chevron 42 View Profile |
Message To: Marg In reference to Message Id: 2087116 Unsure about current (new) setup
I picked up a medium and Extra Large Exo-Terra rock hide at Petco, and the Medium is absolutely too small: he wouldn’t fit in the hole to get in and would not fit inside it if he could. I’m wondering though, the Extra-Large seems pretty big, and I don’t know if it’s the best to use that and leave him space or get something between the two sizes (not the Large, I saw the warnings above, I mean another brand with a mid-range size if there is one) so that he can feel more secure? And for attaching the Ultratherm pad (which I happily learned doesn’t use the same "stick on once" system that Zoomed’s does), is using masking tape or Duct Tape ok? I don’t want to accidentally use something that will melt under the tank. Any tips on how to secure it underneath? Thanks. |
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| 10/25/09 11:29pm |
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Marg View Profile |
Message To: Chevron 42 In reference to Message Id: 2088640 Unsure about current (new) setup
or maybe stuff it with loosely balled up news paper (need to check it regularly for urrates and poo getting stuck to/inside of it). I tried using a plastic bowl with a whole cut for the door... one that fits inside of the hide... but have to watch if the bowl rotates... they can "lock themselves in" (mine did once - lol) but they will get out if the want. Or just use bowls, till he is big enough fo the x-large hide. Bowls - many of us us plastic bowls with a door hole cut/melted out... they can be bought 3 for a buck at Dollar General, Family Dollar, wal-mart If you go this route... make sure there are no Sharp edges for snake to get caught on. To secure the Ultratherm UTH I use the Foil type Duct Tape... as sugested by customer service at rep supply... It doesn’t "gum up" and melt off like regular duct tape... Masking tape prolly won’t work, for the same reasons. No worries about asking questions... that’s what we are here for.. to help :o) Marg |
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| 10/26/09 07:24pm |
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Unsure about current (new) setup
