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PapaSmurf View Profile |
Hello All!!!
I’ve been following the forums for a while now, but this is my first post. I thought I’d say HI! and introduce my babies. My wife’s baby is Charlie. Charlie is a Pet store purchase, so, I’m not sure the sex, or the age. I’m guessing only a few months if that. She measures 23" and only about 3/4" thick.
Benny is my Red Tail. I was told he was a common, but his scale count, and saddle count (if i did the counting right) tells me he is indeed a true red tale. His saddle pattern is really cool, he has a few that I like to call "riding saddles" He’s 8 months old, and measures about 32" long. He’s a little over an inch thick.
Both the babies are right now living in a 30 gal. aquarium while I plan out their future home. They both get along fantastically so far. Anyway, I hope to be posting lots in the future. I will likely be getting some major advice when i get to building my enclosure. Alot of my questions have been answered already from reading the forums, but I still have sooo many more. TTYS Everyone |
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| 08/20/09 01:29am |
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Bciaddict View Profile |
Message To: PapaSmurf In reference to Message Id: 2060674 Hello All!!!
Just curious when you did a scale count, did you count just the dorsal scales, or did you count ventrals and subcaudals too? Amie |
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| 08/20/09 05:53am |
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PapaSmurf View Profile |
Message To: Bciaddict In reference to Message Id: 2060712 Hello All!!!
By my count, Bennie has 242 ventrals, 92 dorsals Charlie has 252 ventrals, 74 dorsals What kind of numbers am i looking for with the subcaudels? Leon |
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| 08/20/09 12:15pm |
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Bciaddict View Profile |
Message To: PapaSmurf In reference to Message Id: 2060861 Hello All!!!
56-79 dorsal scales 225-253 ventral scales 47-70 subcaudal scales. Boa constrictor constrictor would have around 75-95 dorsal scales 227-250 ventral scales 49-62 subcaudal scales So far it appears that Bennie is a Bcc, but according to scale counts Charlie might be Bci. Many people think that it’s just the dorsal scale counts that identify a boa but as many scale counts as possible should be taken into account. FYI, Bcc x Bci crosses will have funky numbers (and other crosses). For example you can have a boa that has 86 dorsals, 252 ventrals, and 60 subcaudals. Take all of those numbers and what do you get? 
Scale counts can also be used to isolate possible locality in some boas. Amie |
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| 08/20/09 03:45pm |
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Bciaddict View Profile |
Message To: Bciaddict In reference to Message Id: 2060971 Hello All!!!
Amie |
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| 08/20/09 04:01pm |
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PapaSmurf View Profile |
Message To: Bciaddict In reference to Message Id: 2060981 Hello All!!!
I bought charlie at a petstore, and they told me it was a red tail common boa, It was of course before I started reading about the different breeds, up until then i thought a boa was a boa. Had I known then, that a "common boa" and a "red tail boa" were indeed 2 separate things I might not have paid as much as I did for him/her (i should really find out if charlie is male or female) As for the scale counts, Based on the numbers you gave, it is entirely possible to have a snake that is indeterminable by scale count as either a bci, or bcc. i.e: 77 dorsal, 245 ventral, 55 subcaudal could be either bci, or bcc by scale count. I used the scale count reference from redtailboas dot com which says: BCI: 253 ventral scales (or less) and a midbody scale count of 55-79. 21 or more dorsal blotches (saddles). BCC: 234 to 250 ventral scales and a midbody scale count of 89-95. Less than 20 dorsal blotches. |
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| 08/21/09 01:33am |
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PapaSmurf View Profile |
Message To: PapaSmurf In reference to Message Id: 2061279
So my complete scale count is as follows: Ventral = 242 Dorsal = 92 Subcaudal = 60  |
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| 08/21/09 01:51am |
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Bciaddict View Profile |
Message To: PapaSmurf In reference to Message Id: 2061284 Hello All!!!
Redtailboa.com is skewed slightly because of Jeff Ronne. Jeff believes ALL Colombians are Bcc. Which is not the popular opinion, especially with herpers that have done scale counts in the field.... My numbers come from Vin Russo. Langhammer reported dorsal scale counts of 56-79 for Bci, and counts of 81-87, 81-95, 85-89 for Bcc. Amie |
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| 08/21/09 06:23am |
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Fairy Frog Mother View Profile |
Message To: Bciaddict In reference to Message Id: 2061327 Hello All!!!
Quote: Both the babies are right now living in a 30 gal. aquarium while I plan out their future home. They both get along fantastically so far.
You seem to know a fair amount about snakes, but if I could add a word of advice... Housing separately is far more ideal than housing together for many reasons. Since you are considering what to do, and are actually doing exactly what I did when I got mine...Im posting this for your consideration. 1. Boas are subtly territorial. The dominant one will push the smaller one out to have best access at heat and hides. In the wild they do not come together except to mate. I grew up with a pair that were housed together in the 70s and thought there wasn’t an issue with it either... until my male tried to eat my female ( both were fed in separate enclosures) Luckily I was right there and up and startled him before he got his mouth all the way round her head! Thankfully I had listened to folks here and had a tank that was arriving the next morning. My female spent the night in a 10 gallon with a heating pad and towel over the top. 2. If one regurges, has diarrhea, or is impacted...how will you know which pooped, regurges or what have you if you aren’t right there to witness it. They can also pass illnesses to one another if one gets sick. 3. Breeding. You dint know the sex of the one...so it may be a non issue, but if they do decide to breed, some subspecies can have 50 or more babies. You ready to house em all and heat that many tubs and feed that many neonates after their first shed? Then...will you be able to find homes for that many. Most pet stores will only take 1-4 of em... and if they aren’t a pure locality, collectors aren’t going to be interested. Might be able to sell a few as pets...but what will happen with the ones you cant sell or give away? |
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| 08/21/09 11:53am |
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PapaSmurf View Profile |
Message To: Fairy Frog Mother In reference to Message Id: 2061471 Hello All!!!
Quote: In the wild they do not come together except to mate.
not far from where i live there is a cave where in the winter you can walk in and witness thousands of garter snakes ?hibernating? And behind my house I have a ?den? that frequently has 4-5 garter snakes hiding out. does your comment mean that boas are different in the habits? Quote: If one regurges, has diarrhea, or is impacted...how will you know which pooped, regurges or what have you if you aren’t right there to witness it. They can also pass illnesses to one another if one gets sick.
as for the diahea, or impaction i probably couldnt tell which one, but as for the regurge, maybe im wrong, but i feed charlie black mice, and bennie whites, so would i not be able to tell which one was regurging? Quote: You dint know the sex of the one
I dont know for sure, but the pet store kept referring to it as a "he" it doesnt mean anything really, and im more or less assuming it is a he, ultimately i guess i’ll have to get it probed to find out for sure, since im not comfortable with the "pop" test myself. but so far they seem to both do their own thing, and when they arent, the seem to always be balled up together as thought they were cuddling. "good? bad? i dont know. I am new to the whole snake keeping world, so any advice will definately be taken into consideration, cause after what I have spent to aquire my babies, I definately dont want them to be sick or eat each other. I’d love babies, even if only one litter (mind you i would prefer if it was after I had my snake habitat built so i wasnt trying to build the habitat, AND a rack to house them all) If I did have babies, you can rest assured that none would be killed or put out on the street, i would rather have a thousand snakes, than the other animals my wife forces me to hous in my home. thanks for the tips though, and they will for sure be given some serious thought as I create my habitat for them. If I do notice any issues or odd goings on, i do have another aquarium i can house charlie in untill i build my snake house. regards, Leon |
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| 08/22/09 04:26am |
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Bciaddict View Profile |
Message To: PapaSmurf In reference to Message Id: 2061802 Hello All!!!
does your comment mean that boas are different in the habits?" Yes they are different. The a group living/breeding situation such as the garter snake phenomenon (and rattle snakes) is somewhat unique to those species. When your boas are "cuddling" they are actually both trying to be in the best warm/cool spot. Eventually one will become dominate over the other one. Amie |
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| 08/22/09 06:53am |
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Fairy Frog Mother View Profile |
Message To: Bciaddict In reference to Message Id: 2061827 Hello All!!!
I always thought the denning of rattlers and garters is pretty cool. Garters kept with other smaller snakes though WILL eat them. And like I said...I have personally witnessed my boas doing subtle things to establish tank dominance. Its not cuddling...like most people interpret. It causes one snake stress. My female who was the submissive one is still a couple inches shorter than the Male, and they were both born the same date. Could be genes, sure. But it could be he was dominant for the time they were together and thus has better nutrition absorption. Also, if one does turn out to be female, and they breed before she is fully grown and has enough weight on her to sustain her through the period of fasting they usually go through while in gestation, you could end up with her having major complications. Boas shouldn’t be bred until they are 3 years and at LEAST 3 feet long. ( Most will be more like 6-7 by 3 years of age) and pretty big around the center. ( Not a ton of fat, but good strong healthy muscle) Giving birth takes a lot out of them. People will argue both ways. In the end they are your pets. You have to do what you think is best. Just offering advice from personal experience and research Ive done. Hope it helps! |
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| 08/23/09 12:42am |
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PapaSmurf View Profile |
Message To: Fairy Frog Mother In reference to Message Id: 2062163 Hello All!!!
If need be, i can build a second smaller enclosure for charlie if I cant house them together in my large enclosure i plan on building. If they are both male, and the viv is big enough, do you think they would be ok together? Would they have enough room in a climate controlled habitat to establish their own "turf" within the enclosure? or at least be comfortable and ok with each other? [fyi, my dimensions planned for my enclosure is roughly 8’Lx8’Hx5’D] |
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| 08/23/09 01:54am |
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Bciaddict View Profile |
Message To: PapaSmurf In reference to Message Id: 2062179 Hello All!!!
Then there is the feeding issue. How do you plan on feeding them if they are in the same enclosure? If you feed them in the enclosure, you run the risk of them both attacking the same meal at the same time. If you remove them from the enclosure to feed, they may still have the scent of food on them when they get put back in the enclosure. I had two Peruvian boas that I housed together. It wasn’t a problem until they got bigger. I fed them outside of their enclosure, and I’d put the male back in afterwards, and then the female. There were many tense times when she would stalk him afterwards....he still smelled like rats, and she was a ferocious feeder. Here is a shot of them "cuddling"
One more thing to consider...If they are both males.....males may fight each other during breeding season if they get a whiff of a female boa. Some may do it just because they sense the seasonal chance. Amie |
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| 08/23/09 07:29am |
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PapaSmurf View Profile |
Message To: Bciaddict In reference to Message Id: 2062235 Hello All!!!
Well, I’ll have to see how it goes. Thanks again for the info and advice :) |
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| 08/23/09 12:24pm |
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Fairy Frog Mother View Profile |
Message To: PapaSmurf In reference to Message Id: 2062334 Hello All!!!
Just something to keep in mind. |
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| 08/24/09 03:07pm |
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PapaSmurf View Profile |
Message To: Fairy Frog Mother In reference to Message Id: 2062883 Hello All!!!
fyi, I moved my babies back to their original separate enclosures last night..after the discussion previously, I kept thinking about waking up to find charlie being digested by benny, and decided that I didnt want to see that happen....so... yeah. |
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| 08/25/09 12:08am |
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Fairy Frog Mother View Profile |
Message To: PapaSmurf In reference to Message Id: 2063132 Hello All!!!
Sounds like you have some awesome plans for your snakes. Im certain they will have a great life with you. Cant wait to see pictures as they grow, and as you get your enclosure done! |
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| 08/25/09 04:38pm |
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PapaSmurf View Profile |
Message To: Fairy Frog Mother In reference to Message Id: 2063381 Hello All!!!
I’ve been doing alot of reading online lately about "boa dens" so to speak, and it seems to be a mixed feeling kind of thing. some have issues, some dont. so again.. we’ll see how it goes. I have no issues with having to build multiple enclosures, if need be. |
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| 08/25/09 08:29pm |
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Rtb2009 View Profile |
Message To: PapaSmurf In reference to Message Id: 2060674 Hello All!!!
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| 08/31/09 11:57pm |
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PapaSmurf View Profile |
Message To: Rtb2009 In reference to Message Id: 2066080 Hello All!!!
-Leon |
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| 09/01/09 01:47am |
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Bciaddict View Profile |
Message To: PapaSmurf In reference to Message Id: 2066107 Hello All!!!
Anery, or anerythristic is a complete lack of red. There is no such thing as a "hint of anery" though :) This is a Type I anery Colombian:
This is a Type I anery Nicaraguan:
And this is a Type II anery Nicaraguan:
Amie |
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| 09/01/09 06:04am |
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Bciaddict View Profile |
Message To: Bciaddict In reference to Message Id: 2066147 Hello All!!!
Also anery is a recessive trait. :) Amie |
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| 09/01/09 06:07am |
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PapaSmurf View Profile |
Message To: Bciaddict In reference to Message Id: 2066149 Hello All!!!
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| 09/01/09 04:33pm |
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Fairy Frog Mother View Profile |
Message To: PapaSmurf In reference to Message Id: 2066353 Hello All!!!
Both are BCI Het for Albino. |
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| 09/02/09 09:57pm |
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Rtb2009 View Profile |
Message To: Fairy Frog Mother In reference to Message Id: 2066901 Hello All!!!
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| 09/03/09 12:58am |
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Rtb2009 View Profile |
Message To: PapaSmurf In reference to Message Id: 2063132 Hello All!!!
you shouldnt handle them befor feeding them it causes stress and can cause complications |
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| 10/02/09 09:43pm |
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