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 #1738673


RaniKana
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 Rescue mission- anything to help please

no, i’m not a complete noob, but i know chams are extremely sensitive, and i was already stupid enough to take a sick one especially without any prior experience w/ chams. i’ve had MANY reptiles, but never a cham, so i may need help. jackson chameleons run wild on the east side of my island, and some fool caught one to give to a friend’s son (who a.) didn’t want it and b.) couldn’t take care of it) who gave it to someone else to find a good home for it. by the time they found me, the poor thing hadn’t eaten in a week and had been living in an aquarium. (*yikes*).

he’s looking much better now. no more black spots, mostly even color that’s pretty bright when he’s sleeping. i couldn’t find a ficus tree for him, so he’s got an azeca palm tree to live in (which is pretty dark colored leaves which i THINK is the reason he’s pretty dark when he wakes up. i’m just hoping he’s not stressed out.)

the thing that worries me most is that i haven’t seen him drinking, and his waste is yellow. how do i make him drink? (besides a syringe) i’ve got a mister and an airstone. it’s maui, so we don’t have to worry about heat and humidity much.

also, he’s pretty big. over 6 inches in the body plus the tail and horns(not that i think the horns matter much for size, but i’m measuring from nose to bum). i’ve heard many things about how much he should eat. one person was shocked that he was eating three large crickets at a time, and another person was telling me that their cham was eating btwn 5 and 10 a day. but let’s just mention that everyone i’ve known, their chams died prematurely, so what do i really have to go on? the day i got him, he almost immediately ate seven crickets then fell asleep. then he was holding steady at three a day for the next few days, then four yesterday. all of these were hand fed to him as i did not have a screen cage for him. (only a fake tree in my bathroom for a while). today is the first day i’m making him hunt for his food. i put four crickets in his new screen cage and he’s showing no interest in them as of yet.

now i do intend to return it to the wild, but it cannot live on west side maui. theyjust can’t survive here for some reason, and it’s a two hour drive by car to get to the east side area he came from. (but i’d have to take a bike) needless to say, he’ll be released when i have time.

anybody know how to tell how old he is?

what about molting? he’s got a white patch on his back that’s peeling. looks like molting to me? but i honestly wouldn’t know for sure. i can’t get him out of his cage to get a good pic of it.

if anyone has any helpful information, please share it. if you need info, i’d be glad to share it if it will help you help me. i used to breed snakes back on the mainland, but they’re TOTALLY different.
05/17/08  10:02pm

 #1738836


RaniKana
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   Message To: RaniKana   In reference to Message Id: 1738673


 Rescue mission- anything to help please

well, he finally ate one cricket and was happy w/ that i guess, cuz i pulled three outta the cage after dark. his color was brighter though. he looks happy enough. i’m just gonna try not touching him for the next few days. he’s been handled so much these past few days, he needs to rest. i guess i forgot about the time difference when i posted this. i guess i’ll get a few posts tomorrow morn. lol. 8:30 @ night here is 2am for most of you. lol. anyone else from 808?
05/18/08  02:17am

 #1738936


Blightedchemist
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   Message To: RaniKana   In reference to Message Id: 1738836


 Rescue mission- anything to help please

Definetly not from around you. good luck with that poor guy, youre doing a great thing for him. glad to hear hes doing much better than before. Have you though about just keeping him instead of returning him to the wild? Some would say its better to return him to the wild, but since hes already in apparently good care, keeping him doesnt seem like it would be a huge problem.
05/18/08  09:20am

 #1739091


RaniKana
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   Message To: Blightedchemist   In reference to Message Id: 1738936


 Rescue mission- anything to help please

well, the main reason i took him in was because i was planning to buy one anyways, but i didn’t buy one cuz i was afraid i WOULDN"T take good enough care of him. i know i’ll be going that way in about a month and i’d let him go if he’s not doing well, but i might keep him if we’re both happy campers.

anybody got any tips about the drinking thing? he ate another cricket by hand last night, but i still haven’t seen him drink anything. is this normal? i put one more cricket in his cage just now. hopefully he’ll eat it while i’m at work.

what about gut loading the crickets? i saw in the petshop, they were all just living on a substrate of rice... or was it rice krispies? were they eating that? it seems like mine have gone cannibal. i put some fish flakes in there, but i don’t think they’re eating it. i think they prefer eating each other’s legs off. i don’t wanna be giving him empty crickets.

rescue missions worry me. they tend to end tragically very quickly and very easily (and i’d just die if that happened *tears* he’s my BAAAABY). i’d certainly rather let him go than make him suffer.
05/18/08  01:13pm

 #1739476


LunaC
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   Message To: RaniKana   In reference to Message Id: 1739091


 Rescue mission- anything to help please

First off, since the cham is wild caught, he’s probably not acclimating well to captivity, which is why he’s not drinking or eating normally. His yellow urates are a sure sign of dehydration. He’s probably carrying parasites as well, since parasites in WC’s is generally the norm.

As for gutloading crix with rice krispies or rice ... no. Healthy cham maintenance includes healthy feeder maintenance. Dark leafy greens, fruit, etc. Your cham is what it eats. And neither wild chams nor their wild feeders eat store-bought rice or rice krispies. That would also be the reason for your cricket cannibalism. Since you’ve had "MANY" reptiles, I’m surprised you are not more familiar with proper gutloading. I’m sure any other reptiles now in your care would also benefit.

Obviously you can’t MAKE him drink. If you are providing dripping/heavily misted water, he will drink when he wants to drink. Force feeding or drinking via syringe certainly will only serve to stress him out further.

I’m sorry, but it’s my opinion that the cham should be released, just as you intend to do. The sooner the better. They are, as you know, more fragile and sensitive to environmental changes and stress than other reptiles. I understand why imports are important to breeders, but overall I disagree with yanking WC’s from their native environs for the casual pet trade.

Good luck with him until you can get him back to his rightful home!



05/18/08  07:38pm

 #1739661


RaniKana
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   Message To: LunaC   In reference to Message Id: 1739476


 Rescue mission- anything to help please

i’ve had snakes out the wazoo, but all of them ate previously killed, freeze/thaw mice. never had the heart to feed anything live (i had a tendency to keep the feeder mice as pets rather than let them be eaten), so the gut loading was left up to other ppl. the others i had ate a mixture of pellets and veggies. never had to deal w/ a live feed. but please, instead of telling me how great or terrible a deed i’m doing, please tell me how to keep this lil guy alive until i can get him back to hana. in my opinion, they should have left the poor thing where they found him. that’s where he belonged, but that’s not under my control. all i can do is try to save him long enough to fix their mistake.

is there any kind of fruit that i can get him to eat to hydrate him? do jackson’s eat fruit? i’m really getting worried about his dehydration. he’s sleeping now, and i know that’s not a good sign. if he’s got a parasite, then he had it in the wild and was surviving fine with it, so that’s probably not the major factor. if it is, there’s nothing i can do about it anyways besides a vet, and i doubt he’d check himself into a vet in the wild.

it seems like his health comes and goes. when i got him, he looked terrible. then he was looking better as i got him to eat. last night, it looked like there was hope, and this morning, he looked GREAT (but what do i know). i thought everything was going to be okay and i might be able to keep him. he was real active, alert, and moving around when i came home from work today and bright colored. after i took a shower, he was dark colored, lethargic, half asleep, and for a minute, it looked like his eyes sunk in (and i’m assuming that’s Real bad).

so if rice is bad, then what should i use to load the crickets? i read fish flakes work. is that true? there’s so much bull out there. it’s ridiculous. i’d assume they’re called fish flakes cuz they’re for ... maybe.... fish...? not much of a stretch there.

the only reason i mentioned using a syringe is because a friend of mine told me to force feed him pedialyte w/ it if he stops eating and drinking for too long. doesn’t sound safe to me. is that total bull, too? she said it gave nutrients and hydration if in a total pinch, but once again, i don’t think i have the heart to put the poor guy through that either. ~I~ certainly wouldn’t want ppl shoving tubes in my mouth and forcing that crap down my throat, so why would he? seems like more stress than it’s worth. pedialyte is nutrients for human children. i doubt a cham would need the same nutrients, and i’m assuming the sugars in it would only be a negative.



in the meantime, i’m gonna spray some crikets w water, dust them w/ cal dust, then hand feed him cuz he’s not hunting for CRAP right now. maybe having wet crickets will get him a FEW drops of water at least. if he’ll eat them...

write back soon, please...

just about anything is helpful at this point. yes, i was researching before i got him, but i wasn’t ready to buy one. this guy just kinda fell in my lap. maybe i got him too late... *tears*



05/18/08  10:04pm

 #1740077


RaniKana
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   Message To: RaniKana   In reference to Message Id: 1739661


 Rescue mission- anything to help please

i forgot about the anole and house geckos i had that ate freeze dried crickets and the occasional super worm. again, i didn’t have to gut load. i did some more research on the crix and figured out plenty that i was doing wrong. i’m gonna give ’em fish flakes, dog food,and apples for now. i didn’t think i’d have to put so much effort into raising crickets. lol. it’s somewhat comical to me. if i’m gonna put that much effort, i may as well add a dirt pan and breed them too. i’m sure plenty of ppl around here would appreciate a closer place to buy crickets anyways.

yesterday was the first day he didn’t eat. refused to hunt and wouldn’t accept any hand fed either.

i put him on a wet t-shirt and let water drip on his horns for a while yesterday. i didn’t see him drinking, but he got a bit more rejuvinated and started moving around again, but i’m sure he’s getting depressed in the cage cuz when i put him back in, he went right back to sleep. i almost think he’d do better in my bathroom again, but that’s not an option (it was driving ppl crazy and they won’t let me do it again).

when we woke up this morning, he looked okay again. alert, bright colors, but wouldn’t eat the cricket i tried to hand feed to him. i left one lil cricket in there while i go to work. hopefully he’ll munch on him by the time i get back today.

hopefully, our suffering will be a lesson to anyone that wants to catch one in the wild. they don’t acclimate well to captivity. excuse me while i beat my friend’s landlord’s friend over the head w/ a two by four to repay him for catching this guy. i’m just praying that this rescue works out. they rarely do.
05/19/08  02:31pm

 #1740796


Mastiffgrrl
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   Message To: RaniKana   In reference to Message Id: 1740077


 Rescue mission- anything to help please

Do you have a basking light/UV light for this guy, or is he living outdoors? Regardless of there being sufficient heat/humidity where you live, they still need a regulated basking spot/uvb if there is no direct sunlight(i.e. NOT through any type of glass).

You need to make sure that he has a basking spot of the CORRECT temperature for his species. I have no experience with jackson’s, so I can’t make a comment on this. For this you will need a digital thermometer to check this temp regularly.

I would suggest having a constant drip in his enclosure so that he can drink when he wants to. This should be in addition to regular misting.

Hope this helps a little! Good luck with your rescue.

D
05/19/08  10:38pm

 #1740842


RaniKana
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   Message To: Mastiffgrrl   In reference to Message Id: 1740796


 Rescue mission- anything to help please

thank you, it does help. i put his enclosure on my lanai for a few hours a day, and my bathroom does have direct sunlight. as far as temperature, not entirely sure. i’d say around 85 in the light and 75 in the shade(educated guess). at nights, drops to high 60’s or low 70’s. when he’s inside, he’s got an old 50 watt bulb that i used to use for my snakes. Does have uvb, but not sure how much. never worried about uvb w/ my snakes.

on top of that, i’ll take him outside, and he’ll chill in my plumeria tree while i tan. lol.

i tried an ice cube drip system for a while, but he just ran from the cold water. lol. go figure. i do mist him 2-3 times a day w/ warm water. he might get more. my boyfriend mists him while i’m at work.

he seems to have improved greatly from last night. (he’s playing at how to escape right now. lol) i just worry like crazy about him. he’ll seem like he’s looking up, then he’ll get real bad, then go back up again.

so far, it’s day two of hunger strike. he’s ignoring everything hand fed, and refuses to hunt still. maybe i’ll have some luck tonight. i’ve still got another three hours of daylight.

at what point of the hunger strike should i worry? considering he went four days to a week without eating before i got him, i’d assume, two days isn’t so bad. do they eat everyday?
05/19/08  11:11pm

 #1740864


Mastiffgrrl
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   Message To: RaniKana   In reference to Message Id: 1740842


 Rescue mission- anything to help please

Depending on his age. I had a veiled that would refuse food for two weeks anytime I moved or changed his enclosure. He was always fine and maintained his hydration through that period.

Yeah, ice cubes are convenient, but they definitely don’t like cold water and they may end up doing more harm than good. If you can get your hands on one, I’ve heard that the "big dripper" is a good drip system.

What I found worked for feeding my veiled, was I put a tupperware container in the bottom of his enclosure. It was tall enough and slick enough that the crickets couldn’t escape. I would leave a carrot or piece of potato in there so that the crickets didn’t get dehydrated and he would come down and eat them as he pleased. I also made sure that he had a perch to eat from that was concealed with foliage so that he was comfortable feeding from there.

In this manner, the crickets were always available, though there was no risk of them injuring him. They were always gutloaded before going in, with apples, leafy greens, cat food, fish food, calcium cricket feed and calcium cricket water. The crickets also need to be dusted with a phosphorus-free calcium powder with NO Vit D3. With the amount of real sun the cham is getting, Vit D3 is not necessary and could harm it.

As a baby he would munch on his pothos plant, but not so much as an adult. He never ate any fruit, though I have heard of some who do.

One thing that I would definitely cut down on is the handling. Chams DO NOT do well with handling. As such, a minimum is best. In my case, that was once a month to do a full cage cleaning. And even then, I would usually just wait for him to climb onto his plant, and I would hang the plant in the bathroom with the shower running and him on it. I tried not to touch him as much as humanly possible. The stress from handling can take years off of a chams life.

I just found a care sheet that indicates that your temperature gradient is correct, though I would make sure of that by measuring it with a digital thermometer. Do that as soon as possible because it will not digest if it doesn’t have proper basking temp. That would be a reason for it not to eat....



05/19/08  11:42pm

 #1742034


RaniKana
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   Message To: Mastiffgrrl   In reference to Message Id: 1740864


 Rescue mission- anything to help please

well, i was pretty sure that the natural temps here were safe for him considering that they live here. i think they just don’t live on this side due to the immense amt of tourism and lack of dense unspoilt rainforest on this end. the other side is mostly reserve. so temps-wise, i figured i was pretty safe.

i worked all day today, so he wasn’t handled (or even looked at or bothered) in any way today. i added a drip system when i came home today. put a 1 litre water bottle on top of the cage and strung some yarn through a hole in the bottom. i’ll have to change the yarn every few days so it doesn’t mold, but that’s no big. so long as he DRINKS something.

also, that feeding idea was TOTALLY a good idea. set that sucker up first thing when i got back, but he hasn’t eaten from it yet. he was already sleeping. he looked at it, bu then fell back asleep. lol. he’s so cute. he looks like he’s posed, ready to flick his tongue at it, but he’s sleeping. lol. is it safe to leave the cricket in there like that over night? i’m assuming so since it can’t get out to bug him (or jump around my house for that matter).

i can’t remember if i’d mentioned it, but i took the screen away so he’d get better light since he’s not catching them for himself anyways. makes it easier for me to reach in there w/ foreceps from the side to offer a cricket anyways. so he’s basically living in a tall bird cage. 4 1/2 ft high, and a foot in diameter round. it’s put up on a shelf, so it’s way up high almost on the ceiling.

funny question. i doubt it bothers him, but my boyfriend brought it up. so... we’ve got this painting of a great egret, and we hung it up in the corner of the living room right next to a fake tree and the fish tanks. then when we got the lil guy (who’s name is "v" by the way) we put him in the corner too (cuz it seemed the most logical place to put him). the picture of the giant bird wouldn’t be bothering him, would it? i know. sounds crazy. i never would have thought of it (i think my bf was high or something to think of it, but it seemed i may as well ask).

well, i’d best hit the sack. another exciting day tomorrow. hopefully he eats that darned cricket.



05/21/08  05:34am

 #1742314


RaniKana
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   Message To: RaniKana   In reference to Message Id: 1742034


 Rescue mission- anything to help please

OMG!!! HUNGER STRIKE OOOOOOOVER!!!

not only did he eat that cricket, but i think he ate the lettuce too! (either that or the tiny lil cricket ate that WHOLE big piece of lettuce and escaped)

that TOTALLY worked! i put two more crickets and a piece of apple in there this time. maybe he’ll eat them by the time i’m back from work.

he’s still showing no interest in the dripping water, but at least i think he got some lettuce.

mahalo NUI LOA!!!
05/21/08  01:01pm

 #1751644


RaniKana
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   Message To: RaniKana   In reference to Message Id: 1742314


 Rescue mission- anything to help please

VICTORY!!!!!!! he’s finally drinking!!!!

today i found the perfect combination to get him to drink from the leaves! usually i’d turn the dripper up for a while until it ran out, then refill it and let it drip slowly for the rest of the day, and mist him occasionally through out the day. i was getting worried because i never saw him drinking anything (and i highly doubt he ate any of that fruits and veggies... i blame the crickets).

today, when i put the enclosure outside, i turned the dripper ALL the way up AND misted him HEAVILY (like probably about 2 - 2.5 litres). and he was SOOOOO thirsty, and for the first time, i just saw him drink and drink and drink... for probably about 40 mins while i misted the cage. ON TOP OF THAT, there was a leaf that had fallen to the bottom and curled and collected some water. he just couldn’t reach it from his perch, so he used his horn to scoot the leaf closer and lick the collecting droplets. it was kinda cute. i guess they DO drink from puddles on the ground.

he lives in a potted palm tree, so i don’t have to worry about too much water... it’ll just water the plants.
05/30/08  10:49pm


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