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 #2296256


Chameleo99
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 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

Here are the details.
She is store bought and raised I assume.
Had her about 4 months. No idea how old she is.
When I adopted her she was in a tiny tiny glass cage which was totally unsuitable. I built a 3x3x5 enclosure with wire on all sides. Filled it with plants fake and real. Setup a drip system, try to mist it twice a day, sometimes forget. She has a steady diet of worms, crickets with calcium sometimes but nothing else. I am thinking of trying to add some veg/fruit to her diet but not sure where to start.

She is in a pretty high traffic part of my house so we try and keep the cage covered with a blanket at night, but not during the day.

I have two lights at the top of the cage on 12 hr cycle timers and one red heat light that stays on all the time. and two other lights, one is uvb the other i think is just a normal light bulb.

I am trying to be thorough here in describing all the factors as to why I found her laying on the bottom of the cage all cold.

She is just starting to molt second time since I have seen.

I had a couple ideas, one might be she is looking to lay eggs, but since the bottom is just wire to let water flow through I have no idea what to do about that.

Two maybe the high traffic area is just too stressful so she needs more privacy, but I see chameleons in pet stores who seem perfectly OK with lots of traffic by their cages....

Any advice would be much appreciated, I can answer more questions or give more details.
She seems very very lethargic at the moment, constantly closing her eyes, barely able to hold on to things.

I had another thought that maybe she needs somewhere to rest since the entire cage is just branches and plants on the inside no platforms.

Thanks again for any insight you might have.



04/24/13  11:35pm

 #2296261


Rexxaroo
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  Message To: Chameleo99   In reference to Message Id: 2296256


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

I would absolutely move that cage to a low traffic area as soon as possible.
They stress very easily, and do not like high traffic areas.
I would also substrate to the bottom in a large kitty litter pan or something of the like and keep it damp to help with humidity.

The cage really out to be entirely branches and plants, they don’t really need a resting area like a platform, though if you want to add one, it wont hurt. You could use it for a food dish or something.

As far as adding fruit to its diet, chams are insectivores and do not eat fruits and veggies. That is the reason for its long sticky tongue.

It is crucial that you remember to mist when you can, and mist more often than not. Humidity is vital to their survival.
Could you state what kind of lights you have exactly, and possibly post a picture of your enclosure? That will help us out greatly.
It sounds pretty serious though, as chams rarely go to the very bottom of their enclosure.
Try and take an actual temp and humidity reading of your enclosure as well, and also what species of cham do you have? This will aslo make a difference.
These guys require delicate care and are typically reccomended only for advanced keepers.
Good luck.

Rexx



04/25/13  02:30am

 #2296267


Chameleo99
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  Message To: Rexxaroo   In reference to Message Id: 2296261


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

I have added three walls to her cage so its more private now. I would move the cage but I don’t really have a space right now.
as far as the substrate is concerned how do you suggest I drain the cage if it has a substrate bottom since it is constantly dripping and needs drainage? Right now there is just a wire bottom which has a large bin underneath for water collection.

I put some paper towels on the bottom for her to hang out on. In a dry area of course. Although I fear it may be too late :(

She is a veiled chameleon, and I have a very good temperature gauge that shows a temp. of about 70-75 at the bottom of the cage and around 110 at the very top. The lights I am using are one regular light bulb I believe, and a Zoo Med 150w basking spot lamp, along with the red light at night which I have since shut off.

I don’t have a hygrometer but there are two live plants in there and I plan on keeping the misting up.



04/25/13  07:47am

 #2296268


Rexxaroo
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  Message To: Chameleo99   In reference to Message Id: 2296267


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

That is an improvement with the walls. You can put two storage tubs in the bottom. One to catch water, and one filled with the substrate.
The 150 spotlight does not offer any uvb, which is absolutely necessary for them.
Unfortunately with chameleons and most reptiles, by the time they start showing signs it usually is too late.
If you can, schedule a vet appt, it may not be too late.
Good luck, hope she pulls through :(

Rexx



04/25/13  08:38am

 #2296276


Chameleo99
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  Message To: Rexxaroo   In reference to Message Id: 2296268


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

damn vet store employees, claimed to know what they were talking about when it came to lights.
So what do you reccomend for UVB? The one I have now says on the box that it supplies UVA light.



04/25/13  12:22pm

 #2296277


Chameleo99
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  Message To: Chameleo99   In reference to Message Id: 2296276


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

Even if she doesn’t pull through I won’t hesitate to try again, it will be sad but I built a very large very nice cage and I hope to learn from her death if that happens. I did try and do all the research I could as soon as I got her from the previous owners, who obviously had done nothing other than listen to the PET SMART employee. You wouldn’t believe the "care" instructions they parroted back to me when they dropped her off. Some of the most insane wrong advice I have ever heard. Better suited for a gecko or tree frog than a chameleon.

I grew up in what was called Zaire and used to have Wild Chameleons as pets so its always been my dream to have one in the states.

Anybody have any recommendations for where to purchase a Jackson’s from a reputable breeder in case she doesn’t make it? I know they can’t be together.

Also does anyone know why the pet store chameleons seem to do so well in high traffic? Is that just high turn around? I saw two Chams at the local shop that were brothers living together in a pretty tiny cage for their size, they seemed to get along together just fine and looked extremely healthy. My guess is that they were raised that way so they were ok being together.



04/25/13  12:43pm

 #2296295


Rexxaroo
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  Message To: Chameleo99   In reference to Message Id: 2296277


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

I recommend a reptiglo 10.0 UVB light from any pet store, the long tube kind.
You can get a cheap 18 inch fixture for it at home depot for 10 bucks.
Most likely, it is high turn around in pet stores, they don’t do well in high traffic and usually don’t have any place to hide and therefore must deal with it. This is the reason chameleons bought at pet stores are highly stressed and unhealthy.
Two chams, should not be kept together unless they do have ALOT of space and are the proper genders etc.
Jacksons can be bought from LLLreptiles, kingsnake, and several other websites.
As far as breeders, it really depends on your area.
You should check out many many many care sheets before you do purchase a Jackson, if your veiled does pass away.
Never ever listen to pet store employees, they have no idea what they are talking about, thus animals and owners suffer. It is a viscous cycle.
You should always research BEFORE you ever receive or purchase an animal, and set up the cage at least two to three days before hand to test run proper temps etc to make sure you have everything you need.
Get that UVB light asap. I am sorry you were unprepared for her and that you recieved her from terrible owners. It really isnt fair that people get animals without understanding what they are getting into.
Good luck, i hope she gets well. Get her to a vet if you can. Good luck.

Rexx



04/25/13  06:35pm

 #2296363


Chameleo99
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  Message To: Rexxaroo   In reference to Message Id: 2296295


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

I really appreciate all the advice so far, it is so sad to see her struggling to walk but I am not going to give up on her, I want to do everything I can to see if I can help her live.

I got a proper UVB,
Her legs are pretty much useless she can barely hold on to anything, I don’t believe she has had any UVB exposure during her whole short sad life.

Right now I have her in the bottom of the cage on substrate with a drip near her. I heard on another cham forum that a warm bath can help at times so I am giving those. She doesn’t seem to care for them. Her eyes are slightly sunken so I have been trying to get her to drink more although I do see her drink on her own.

I am ordering some butter worms online to see if that extra calcium will help, and also as soon as I find a capable herp vet with cham experience I will take her in. I have heard calcium shots can stop but not reverse her condition. I am almost positive she has MBD judging by other postings describing similar symptoms.



04/27/13  03:57am

 #2296371


Rexxaroo
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  Message To: Chameleo99   In reference to Message Id: 2296363


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

It seems she does have MBD from all the symptoms you are describing. It is a terrible and sad disease, but can be reversed slightly or helped once you get some proper calcium in her. Keep her warm and comfortable.
I would go buy some repti-cal calcium and multivitamin and start dusting all the food you give her with it.
I also reccomend buying some reptaid and reptboost to give her to help her immune sytem and help get her some nutrition.
heres a link for reptaid:
http://compare.ebay.com/like/121062402947?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar
depending on how much she weighs you can get either the standard reptaid or the reptaid XL.

and heres a link for reptaboost:
http://www.petco.com/product/117291/Flukers-ReptaBoost-Insectavore-And-Carnivore-High-Amp-Boost.aspx
youll need the carnivore kind since she is carnivorous.

You could even get some liquid calcium and give her a drop or two every other day.
reptaboost you can buy at petsmart and petco, but reptaid you will probably have to order online.
It needs to be refigerated after you open or it will spoil, but can last a full year after its opened.

You can also try cutting up some earthworms and try feeding pheionix worms as they are both high in calcium, and earthworms will help with hydration.

Good luck, ill keep helping as much as i can :) I hope she pulls through, youre doing a good job trying to help her.

Rexx



04/27/13  11:54am

 #2296392


Chameleo99
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  Message To: Rexxaroo   In reference to Message Id: 2296371


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

any tips on how to make sure she eats and drinks enough while I try and help get more calcium?
I only have crickets at the moment and I can’t figure out how to force them on her.
she does drink on her own power, but not enough as I can see she is dehydrated.



04/27/13  06:32pm

 #2296463


Rexxaroo
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  Message To: Chameleo99   In reference to Message Id: 2296392


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

Take a small syringe and fill it with some unflavored pedialyte from walmart. Give this to her a few times a day no more than three, and this will help build her up I would do half water half pedialyte.
Earthworms can be bought at any bait store and even walmart will sell them near the fishing poles and such. You can try using tweezers to hold crix in front of her to see if that helps.
I would raise her temps a little as well, and make sure she is getting close to that UVB light so you are sure shes getting the benefits. Shes in good hands :)
Just try and get some of that calcium supplements and some of those other bugs, itll help.
Good luck!

Rexx



04/28/13  07:21pm

 #2296487


Chameleo99
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  Message To: Rexxaroo   In reference to Message Id: 2296463


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

its amazing what the UVB lamp seems to have done already, she can climb the sides of the cage much better than she could before. Seems to have some more strength.

I really still don’t understand how to force water on her though, do I physically try and pull her mouth open and syringe the reptiboost or pedialite in there? I am a little afraid of hurting her if i try this. Sometimes she gets real butt hurt and hisses at me so I try and toss the few waxworms I have in her open mouth but this rarely works.



04/29/13  05:01am

 #2296496


Rexxaroo
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  Message To: Chameleo99   In reference to Message Id: 2296487


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

It really is amazing how proper lighting turns a reptile around so quickly. You can ust run it down the tip of her nose, she may lick it off. If you continue to spray her vigorously, that will help to. She seems to be getting better if she is hissing :) If she does gape at you, againg you can take tweezers and plop some food in there.
To get my reptiles to open their mouths, i gently take a pair of tweezers and run it along the side of their mouth. If they dont open from that, then you can GENTLY pry it open at the back corner of the mouth. Be carefule you dont damage any teeth though.
Good luck.

Rexx



04/29/13  10:23am

 #2296866


Chameleo99
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  Message To: Rexxaroo   In reference to Message Id: 2296496


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

just a quick update if anybody cares about how she is doing, the new UVB light seems to have really helped, she has much more strength now and is on a steady diet of waxworms, butterworms, and crickets. She is able to climb her plants again which is amazing. and She is drinking more on her own. I think she might be crippled for life but its looking like she could still pull through.



05/05/13  05:23pm

 #2296894


Rexxaroo
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  Message To: Chameleo99   In reference to Message Id: 2296866


 Please advise, as to why my chameleon is laying on the bottom of the cage.

That is great to hear!! Im so glad shes doing better, you have saved her life. I was going to PM you yesterday to ask how she was, and i am glad to see you posted :)
Its great to see that this animal has bounced back. Its amazing what proper husbandry can do for an animal :)
She may be crippled for life, but it shouldn’t hinder her too much. Im glad you stuck with her. Good for you.

Rexx



05/06/13  11:37am


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