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Kojak View Profile |
I’m sorry but I am seeing more and more drama on here that is just ludicrous. The majority of it seems to stem from new members and/or beginners that are seeking advice and seem to take offense very easily. True, there are those of us that get frustrated with questions that seem very important to others. But here’s my take on that whole scenario; If you are on here asking questions, you obviously have Internet access. Why not go do a little research on your own first. Then, once you have read a few different sources of information pertaining to your question, post on here with any relevant info that you are in doubt of or would like a second opinion on. I see way too many new snake owners on here in a panic over things that are easily remedied by reading a few care sheets. If after reading several sources, you still have doubts, then by all means ask questions. But don’t just jump in here looking for solutions to a problem that should have been prevented in the first place, and not expect to bear the tongue in cheek lashing that you so well deserve. None of us on here know everything. I have yet to see anyone on here claim that they do. All of the information and advice you read on here comes from experience. Many of us network with each other to learn new things and to develop our own methods of husbandry. We don’t always agree with each other. That’s human nature folks. But from conflict comes diversity. If everyone simply followed one source of information and never tried anything new, there would never be any advances in our hobby. So to all of you new members and new snake owners out there, be fore warned. Try to do a little something for yourself. If after you have tried and still can’t figure something out, then hop on here and ask away. But don’t take it so personally when someone slides a sarcastic remark your way. Just take it with a grain of salt and absorb what good information may be attached with it. Lighten up people. This is part of what is wrong with our society today. Not every sarcasm is racial, sexist, or meant to be cruel. Believe it or not, some of us actually have a sense of humor. Try it sometime. You might catch yourself grinning, or god forbid, even laughing out loud! If you all are getting this uptight over something that someone has written, I’d hate to see how you react to a real crisis! Are you the kind of people that would actually get into a physical confrontation because someone called your mother a whore? You can call me, my family, and my friends whatever you like. Does it offend me? NO, because I know that they are just words. And I know that the filth coming out of your mouth is unfounded and untrue. Just words. Now if you were to insult my daughter and actually hurt her feelings, that may be different. She is not old enough and does not yet know the ways of the world. So age plays a major role in maturity at times. So am I to believe that the younger generations are not capable of handling constructive criticism, sarcasm, or even an occasional tongue lashing? Wow, if this is the case, we’re all doomed!!! And for those of you who would like to see things handled with kid gloves, well... you wear them. I’m not one to sugar coat anything or take someone by the hand and gently guide them along. Come on, give me a break! With the Internet and all the available resources out there right now, there is no excuse to not have done SOME prior research on any given topic or question. It’s laziness! Why do all the work when I can just get on a forum and have someone spoon feed me and tell me everything I need to know...BULLCRAP!!!!! Get off of your lazy arses and do some dam work!!! Quit waiting for someone else to solve your problems for you. And do not get offended when someone that has put years of time, blood, sweat, and tears into this hobby gets a little impatient with you. If you want help, there’s nothing wrong with that. Everyone needs help now and then. But try to help yourself first! And shame on you those more experienced keepers/breeders that do not see through this "oh help me, help me" mentality. Was there someone there to walk you through your early days as a keeper/breeder? Even if there was, did they talk down to you and make everything flowery and easy to swallow...I doubt it. I know too many old school keepers/breeders. In the early days of this hobby it was all seat of the pants, trial and error. Sometimes at the expense of animals lives. And for those sacrifices, you would have everyone patted on the head and told "there, there, everything will be just fine...here’s exactly what you need to do..." ARrRRrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh! Come on!!!! Anything worth having is also worth working for! I better end here before I burst a gasket! Chuck, hand me the duct tape please. Thank you and have a good day! |
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| 05/05/08 10:20am |
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Silenceafable View Profile |
Message To: Kojak In reference to Message Id: 1725755 Applicable here as well
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| 05/05/08 10:36am |
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Wisema2297 View Profile |
Message To: Silenceafable In reference to Message Id: 1725767 Applicable here as well
You younger generation out there have a wonderfull opportunity now in that all the info. that has been gathered over the past decades is right at your fingertips......if you will just take the time to look for it. You can become as knowledgeable in just a few years as some of us old timers (but it took us decades to get there). All the experience, trials and errors, successes and failures are out there for you guys to learn from. I keep waiting to see who the next "Kathy Love" or "Don Soderberg" or "Rich Zuckowski" or "Bob Applegate" or "Frank Retes" is going to be. If you guys do not know who these people are then please do your self a favor and research them. |
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| 05/05/08 11:40am |
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Kojak View Profile |
Message To: Wisema2297 In reference to Message Id: 1725793
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| 05/05/08 11:45am |
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Kojak View Profile |
Message To: Kojak In reference to Message Id: 1725794
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| 05/05/08 04:10pm |
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Marg View Profile |
Message To: Kojak In reference to Message Id: 1726000 Applicable here as well
Well put all of you... one other added frustration we all get is... When some one comes asking for help, or advice... Does not get the answer or advice they are looking for... or the answer they want to hear/read... Ignores the replies they get... Then come back whining because they have a Worse problem... That came from the Original Problem. Or they simply refuse to accept that they have bad husbandry... and pass their Bad Judgement on to New snake owners. |
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| 05/05/08 04:25pm |
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Jessica71 View Profile |
Message To: Marg In reference to Message Id: 1726014 Applicable here as well
Quote: If the only people reading this and responding to it are the more experienced keepers, then I have missed my mark. This is the trouble, as is always the case. I know I can be a bit of a defeatist and not try hard enough, but sometimes it seems pointless. Like trying to explain to someone whose snakes have mated because they have been kept together that they should not be put back together immediately after egg laying. The person completely ignores what I say and wants to do it their own way - and this person admits that they are 15 years old and have a lot to learn. So why not start to learn it?
I think that a lot of the trouble is the current education system and attitudes in general. Things like there are no losers; everyone’s a winner. Or there’s no right answer - you do what you think is right for you. Doubtless there are advantages in our education system over rote learning - but you also see the disadvantages when young people on quiz shows don’t even know what happened in 1066 or whether the Tropic of Cancer is in the northern or southern hemisphere. What can we really expect if we don’t consider learning facts that have been accumulated by human culture over hundreds of years to be important any more? The result is young people who have been told so many times that they are wonderful and as clever as anyone else that they believe it, even if they are singularly lacking in intelligence. There is no respect for accumulated knowledge any more. The only thing is, they do realise this with time. Although the situation has worsened even in my lifetime (I’m 36), I don’t doubt that even generation Y will improve as they get older. 
Now I’ve had my vent! |
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| 05/05/08 04:43pm |
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Candy_Corn View Profile |
Message To: Jessica71 In reference to Message Id: 1726038 Applicable here as well
Amber |
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| 05/05/08 08:37pm |
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Candy_Corn View Profile |
Message To: Candy_Corn In reference to Message Id: 1726321 Applicable here as well
Quote: b*ll poopie head.
Oops! LOL. |
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| 05/05/08 08:44pm |
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Isis81 View Profile |
Message To: Kojak In reference to Message Id: 1725755 Applicable here as well
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| 05/05/08 10:43pm |
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XAvaritia View Profile |
Message To: Isis81 In reference to Message Id: 1726572 Applicable here as well
Even when I was 14 or so (yeah, not that long ago >.>) and frequented other animal boards, I always read and lurked for a while first before actually posting any concerns that weren’t covered or weren’t talked about clearly enough. Some people don’t use the information available to them because they simply want the answer handed out to them. Perhaps that’s the way we condition our future generations to be? But then how is it that we actually have a lot of people who are responsible and intent on doing as much research as possible for themselves first? On the other hand, I don’t think there’s any reason anyone should be rude. I understand people get really impatient with them, but it may just be better to link them to another post that has their information and ask them kindly to read it and to read first before asking next time. To you it might be the 100th time you’ve told someone this, but to them, it may be the first time they’re asking and they don’t understand why we’re so angry. Of course, sometimes being a bit harsher gets the message through, but you don’t want them to be so turned off from asking for help that they will refuse to do it later when they really need it and their animal suffers for it. Aish. It’s really difficult. =/ |
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| 05/05/08 11:57pm |
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HENRYANDROSEY View Profile |
Message To: Jessica71 In reference to Message Id: 1726038 Applicable here as well
Quote: The person completely ignores what I say and wants to do it their own way - and this person admits that they are 15 years old and have a lot to learn.
Oh yeh Jessica refering to me lol, its OK Anyway, i am not going to be on here for a while because ill be doing more extensive and more indepth research on two new books; The Kathy Love book & the same ones that Scylla loves to display in his responses. these i am ordering from the website Jessica advised for me to get them from, THANKS for that! I have also got to concentrate on my GCSE exams, which is why i didn’t want the snakes to mate. This is one other downside of housing two snakes together. However, this doesn’t NOT mean i will not look after the eggs, i WILL. Anyway i will take your advice with great respect and thanks for the advice you have given me over the past month. Also my Dad wants me to get rid of the snakes and let young hobbiests take responsibility of any that will hatch, (if any) but i think i will take responsibility for a while and make sure they are feeding correctly, etc. Also before i do eventually pass them on, i will make up a test for any interested. With this, i can decide who is truely capable of looking after the snake. I JUST DON’T WANT THE PERSON TO SEE THE SNAKE SUFFER IF THEY CAN’T LOOK AFTER IT PROPALY! Maybe this is the way? Test them before we give people snakes? Thanks Again, Andrew |
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| 05/08/08 05:24am |
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Jessica71 View Profile |
Message To: HENRYANDROSEY In reference to Message Id: 1728973 Applicable here as well
I’m sure you will want to sell the babies as they are a lot of work, take it from me! Please also do something else for me and separate those adults. It worries me thinking of them breeding again. Once you’ve sold the babies I wouldn’t see any reason why you couldn’t keep the adults - separately! - and read up at the same time, though of course your dad knows best on that one. You seem to me now to be taking things on board and I’m sorry that I probably misjudged you. Hope you don’t give up on the hobby and still stay around the board.  |
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| 05/08/08 10:45am |
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HENRYANDROSEY View Profile |
Message To: Jessica71 In reference to Message Id: 1729180 Applicable here as well
OK thanks for understanding, Andrew P.S. is there any other advice you could give a sercet tip or something, before i do more research, a way to make the snakes more happy, i.e. more plants and less room or same no. of plants and same amount of room. OK thanks for reading my post |
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| 05/08/08 12:06pm |
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Jessica71 View Profile |
Message To: HENRYANDROSEY In reference to Message Id: 1729225 Applicable here as well
How big is your viv? Ideally an adult corn should be housed in a viv around 3 feet by 18 inches by 18 inches. I can’t tell how big yours is by the photo. If they’re together (leaving other considerations aside), I would think 4 feet long would be even better. They need plenty of hides - I use java wood logs that they can hide under. Plants are good for the look of the viv or for extra coverage. You should have at the very least two hides, one in the warm end and one in the cool end, and preferably more, big enough for the snake to hide under completely. |
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| 05/08/08 12:30pm |
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Jessica71 View Profile |
Message To: Jessica71 In reference to Message Id: 1729241 Applicable here as well
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| 05/08/08 12:39pm |
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HENRYANDROSEY View Profile |
Message To: Jessica71 In reference to Message Id: 1729247 Applicable here as well
it is 3’x 15’’x23’’ i have got about 3 hiding places and i also use articfical like yours p.s. could you post a pic of your Viv please |
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| 05/08/08 01:09pm |
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Jessica71 View Profile |
Message To: HENRYANDROSEY In reference to Message Id: 1729278 Applicable here as well
These are my two 4ft vivs. At the time both my snakes were still small and in the smaller plastic cages inside the vivs. A few weeks ago I moved my Russian ratsnake into the 4ft viv as she’s getting big now.
The snakes are the Russian ratsnake, who may grow to around 8 feet but is currently between 3 and 4 feet, and a steppes (Dione) ratsnake which is a small Siberian ratsnake. He will probably be about 3 feet fully grown. He’s still very small and nervy. I don’t have any corns at present but used to have loads and breed them. Here’s the Russian ratsnake as a baby.
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| 05/08/08 03:32pm |
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Kojak View Profile |
Message To: HENRYANDROSEY In reference to Message Id: 1729278
Who knew....lol One other note...just FYI Jessica71 and HENRYANDROSE; I appreciate your input. But you two more or less hijacked the entire thread. Now I’m not one to get upset, but be forewarned that this is indeed bad forum etiquette. In the future, just make a new thread in regards to your questions, comments, concerns, etc. |
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| 05/09/08 09:22am |
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HENRYANDROSEY View Profile |
Message To: Kojak In reference to Message Id: 1730140 Applicable here as well
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| 05/09/08 10:37am |
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Silenceafable View Profile |
Message To: HENRYANDROSEY In reference to Message Id: 1730190 Applicable here as well
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| 05/09/08 10:41am |
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Kojak View Profile |
Message To: Silenceafable In reference to Message Id: 1730197
Quote: Just so you know, I actually linked this post in another post. It was another person that would not take criticism at all. People were actually pretty calm too, and the OP just got defensive and insisted that everything he said was right (such as Aspen is the worst possible substrate you can use) wow, and people wonder why there are so many long time members that get so frustrated and often leave RepticZone.
Some people just don’t have the capacity to learn, while others just lack the will. But the new owners that actually want to become better keepers are the ones that I am most concerned with and hope to guide in the right direction. These are the people that I will always gladly go out of my way to assist or give advice to. |
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| 05/09/08 11:10am |
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Jessica71 View Profile |
Message To: Kojak In reference to Message Id: 1730214 Applicable here as well
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| 05/09/08 01:11pm |
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Reptilefreak23 View Profile |
Message To: Jessica71 In reference to Message Id: 1730304 Applicable here as well
I hope that everyone on this forum reads it (your post) I think you might be on to something about the generations.....But I started breeding and selling, working and crying in this reptile game when I was 10, I did not want anything spoon fed to me and still dont. I worked hard and did all my own research to get here. Infact I just sold ome firebellie toads to a petshop not an hour ago. Thankyou again Kojak for what you put on here |
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| 05/09/08 06:09pm |
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Venom7799 View Profile |
Message To: Reptilefreak23 In reference to Message Id: 1730562 Applicable here as well
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| 05/11/08 09:59pm |
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Odonata View Profile |
Message To: Kojak In reference to Message Id: 1725755 Applicable here as well
i understand how some of you ’seasoned snake people’ can get frustrated by people w/ zip experience that, after asking for help, either dont take it or argue... kinda makes me think of my job---i run a daycare in my home...and some of thes brandnew parents just dont want any advice or think they know it all, because they’ve read a few stinking parenting books...i dont claim to know it all either..but i have worked with kids for 19 yrs!!! i am a compleste newbie to the snake thing, but i am willing to learn, and being a german bred perfectionist, when i’ve had ’issues’ i checked all kinds of resources... caresheets,my books, the former owner of our first snake, who is amazingly helpful herself and on top of that works for dr klingenberger etc... there is, for me anyway a certain comfort in talking to people on here , because you live it everyday and a great number of you have for years... i do trust my books to a point, of course, but getting back to the daycare thing again lol: any number of pediatrician, authors, so called experts, will tell you that teething in babies does NOT cause fever, rash, diarrhea, but guess what--any experienced mother, or anybody with longtime hands on experience w/ kids, will tell you it does! so, long story short, have some patience w/ us newbies, bc some of us actually look up to you/trust you... as far as the ones throwing all good advice to the wind..ignore them/their post, you’re not going to change them anyway! sorry, that was a bit long winded lol |
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| 05/11/08 11:26pm |
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