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 #1821622


Flamingflower
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 Maybe help?

My cousin, who lives in another state, has some dogs, the last I knew is a miniature pincher and a pit bull. He isn’t the type of person I’d take to really ’like’ animals, he’s a little younger than I am, and IMO has a bit of a violent character. His parents bought him the dogs, simply because he wanted one. They’re both are intact, and he planned to breed the miniature. I actually witnessed him hit the pit bull just for jumping up on him in a welcoming way. The miniature pincher was not house trained, although he kept her inside. Apparently she was in heat at the time. He had a vid on his computer. Of a pit bull fight. His parents didn’t want to hear about it much. This was quite a while ago, a year at the least... now I’ve heard that he has a female pit, and has bred her and is selling the puppies. From what I’ve heard he doesn’t pay any attention to the miniature pincher, aside from giving her food and water. I don’t know of the pit bull’s condition outside. It bothers me that he is doing this because I believe he is doing it only for money and, taking his violent tendencies into consideration, I would think that he mistreats them, although I MAY be wrong. His parents don’t necessarily raise him; they spoil him though, which may contribute to his problems. I do not know if he still has that video on his computer, I have almost no idea where he got it from, either he downloaded it... or I think I remember him saying he got it from the dude who sold him the pit bull, don’t take that as a fact though, I might be wrong, as memory isn’t very accurate right there.

Does anyone know of a site or something that lists state laws regarding to situations with animals like this one? Any help, and it will be appreciated. Depending on the current situation, I would like to see the dogs taken from him... but as said before, I don’t know what’s going on as of now.



08/06/08  12:44pm

 #1821808


FutureVet123
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   Message To: Flamingflower   In reference to Message Id: 1821622


 Maybe help?

I would just sit down with the parents and say "You gave him the dogs. It’s both of your’s responsibility. Did you know that those dogs could be taken from him by law if he continues to treat them the way he does? No dog deserves a life like this. If you don’t either find an appropriate home with a responsible home or get him to start treating them with respect and caring for them properly, I will be forced to call the local (insert local animal control service, animal shelter, ASPCA, etc. lol)." If you think they won’t listen to you, have your parents tell them.
-Peaches and Jeni
08/06/08  03:10pm

 #1821861


Senshokukiba
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   Message To: Flamingflower   In reference to Message Id: 1821622


 Maybe help?

There’s not really much you can do.

There is no law states a dog has to be given love and affection. As long as the Miniature Pincher’s provided with food, water, shelter, and is in good condition, nothing can be done.

It’s not illegal to hit a dog, so you really can’t get your cousin in trouble for that. If the dog’s not showing any sign of being abused or neglected, there’s not really anything you can do.

It’s not a crime to keep a video of dogs fighting on your computer, though is it sick.

Authorities won’t take a dog away just because 1 person thinks its owner might be dangerous or cruel.

It’s actually really difficult to get someone’s dog taken away. You need good evidence. Authorities can’t just take a dog away because you don’t think its owner should own dogs.



08/06/08  03:49pm

 #1822363


Flamingflower
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   Message To: Senshokukiba   In reference to Message Id: 1821861


 Maybe help?

Lol, FutureVet. I actually wouldn’t mind trying that, but I don’t plan to go back to the house anytime soon. Senshokukiba- there is a law that states that it is illegal to hit a dog (either a misdemeanor or felony) or any other animal for that matter. It is known as animal cruelty. The dog’s behavior shows that he isn’t treated all that well. In some states I know that it is illegal to be in possession of any product promoting dog/poopie head fights, including videos. Just not sure about that particular state’s laws as of yet. I have already decided on my course of action, but thank you for the suggestion, FutureVet. I don’t like to stand by and do nothing when abuse could be happening right in front of my very nose. Even if his animals are not taken, it needs to at least be investigated, and his activity watched.

Active cruelty implies malicious intent, where a person has deliberately and intentionally caused harm to an animal, and is sometimes referred to as NAI (Non-Accidental Injury).-http://www.pet-abuse.com
08/06/08  10:57pm

 #1822500


Turtlemom
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   Message To: Flamingflower   In reference to Message Id: 1822363


 Maybe help?

Flamingflower,

Contact the local humane society or animal shelter if you think these dogs are being neglected, abused or mistreated in anyway. They should investigate any (even anonymous) complaints. Sounds like that boy has a problem, and his parents don’t/won’t recognize it.

Laws vary state by state. Check out the laws in your cousin’s state. Knowing just what you’re up against can help you plan your action.

Good luck (and min pins are a fav. of mine, where is it?, I’m looking for a min pin rescue!)



08/07/08  01:35am

 #1822524


Senshokukiba
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   Message To: Flamingflower   In reference to Message Id: 1822363


 Maybe help?

You should ask some of your neighbors to watch your cousin closely. Try explaining the sitauation to them. Get them to keep an eye on your cousin. If any of your neighbors notice him beating his dogs as well, call your local humane society.






08/07/08  02:15am

 #1822600


Skullkeeper
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   Message To: Flamingflower   In reference to Message Id: 1821622


 Maybe help?

If he is truly abusing the dogs then report him to the humane society . Personally, it’s non of your business . Let his parents or other adults handle the situation .



08/07/08  06:52am

 #1822676


DaneEliza
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   Message To: Skullkeeper   In reference to Message Id: 1822600


 Maybe help?

Well, I’ll be honest. I work for the humane society and we actually try not to take the pet from the home unless absolutly necassary. When called with a complaint of possible animal abuse our cruelty officer will go out and investigate, ask to see the dog, she’ll try and play with it, observe conditions and behaviors. then when complete with her observations, she will tell the owners they have so many days to fix what ever is wrong with the animals environment, if there is even a problem, then when she goes back in 30+ days whether the animals condition has been corrected or not depends on whether we will retrieve the animal or not. Their is no law against hitting your dog. I have tapped my dog on the butt to interupt his wrongful behaviors before. Doesn’t hurt him. It is only abuse when they continuously beat the animal over and over causing wounds, usually when this is done to pit bulls they start to become agressive and will snap on the owner. Not paying attention to a dog isn’t animal abuse, like sensho said as long as the dog is fed and watered, has proper shelter, ans isn’t under any "real abuse" then there isn’t much we at the humane society can do for you. Even if you believe it to be wrong. If we don’t see the animal as being abused or neglected by our standards then there is no need to take the dog from it’s home. Especially if the owners are willing to correct the situations if they are indeed wrong.

Sorry,
Elizabeth



08/07/08  09:43am

 #1822725


FutureVet123
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   Message To: DaneEliza   In reference to Message Id: 1822676


 Maybe help?

I still think the parents need a frank talk. It sounds like that boy has some mental issues. First of all, even if he isn’t "beating" the dog, he has a lot of excess negative anger that may lead to serious abuse in adulthood (how old is he?). Second of all, getting enjoyment out of a cruel "sport" most definitely points out that he has a lot of issues. Thirdly, irresponsible parents are part of the problem. They bought him the dogs, and even though they are his, they (should be) legally registered in the parents’ names, which means the parents are also at fault.
I recommend talking to them ASAP, this is not something that will go away without professional help (such as a psychologist)!!
-Peaches and jeni
08/07/08  10:36am

 #1822757


DaneEliza
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   Message To: FutureVet123   In reference to Message Id: 1822725


 Maybe help?

How do we know that this guy/girl is really like that? We don’t. And if he really does abuse the dogs then it shouldn’t be long before one of them turns on him.

Look at the evidence:

Quote:

He isn’t the type of person I’d take to really ’like’ animals, he’s a little younger than I am, and IMO has a bit of a violent character.


I’ve met all kinds of people with a violent character that actually treat animals with more respect then they do people.

Quote:

who lives in another state


They live in another state, how can you witness abuse when you live in another state. Even though he/she did it a few years ago, doesn’t exactly mean he/she is doing it now.

Quote:

I actually witnessed him hit the pit bull just for jumping up on him in a welcoming way.


What you consider a welcoming way, isn’t exactly welcoming. My dane is probably three sizes bigger then that pit and knows better then to jump on people. What may be ok with a younger person isn’t exactly ok with an older less strong person. So the behavior needs to be corrected now. Granted there are better less abusive ways to correct it.

Quote:

He had a vid on his computer. Of a pit bull fight.


I’ve looked at pit bull fights before, it’s not a crime. It was a research project. May not be what they intended it for, but thats their business.

Quote:

This was quite a while ago, a year at the least...


I rest my case


I’’m not trying to be a jerk, or be rude but as far as the humane society is concerned these things are not a danger to the animal and will never lead to taking the animals. If his/her parents didn’t care to hear about the pit fighting video, what makes you think they’ll care about some minor problems like this.

If they bred the female pit, it’s their dog and technically they can do what ever they want. Whether it wrongfull or not. Sad but true. We live in a terribly cruel world honey, and unfortunatly not everyone gets what they deserve. I have seen dogs that had been burnt multiple times with cigarettes, all they did was give them a warning, went back, no more burns, the previous one had been heeled, but there was still that feeling in the pit of my stomace that after we stoped paying visits that they would go right back to abusing those dogs. But there was nothing I or the cruelty officer could do because they appeared to have stopped.



08/07/08  11:21am

 #1822843


Skullkeeper
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   Message To: FutureVet123   In reference to Message Id: 1822725


 Maybe help?

There is no proof that the dog is being abused. There is nothing indicating that the kid has mental problems . No parent is going to stand by and be lectured by a kid ,especially one trying to tell them how to raise their child . I know I wouldn’t . I would put the kid in his place in about two seconds .

Futurevet you are assuming all kinds of stuff . You have recommend to other children in the past to give adults a talking to . No adult that I know of would allow a kid to tell them what they should or shouldn’t do . You are advising kids to do some thing that will only make the situation worse .

One way to train a large dog not to jump up is to bring your knee up into his chest every time the dog jumps on you . This is a safe and effective method of teaching a dog not to jump on you .It hurts his chest and he will quickly learn that the bad behavior brings about pain . I have raised Great Danes and a properly trained dog does not jump up on people , not even in a friendly way .


My advice is , mind your own business and take care of your own pets . Don’t worry about what some other kid is doing . Let his parents worry about that . That is why kids have parents in the first place .



08/07/08  12:47pm

 #1822906


Dragongirl6
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   Message To: Skullkeeper   In reference to Message Id: 1822843


 Maybe help?

Quote:

Personally, it’s non of your business . Let his parents or other adults handle the situation .


Quote:

Don’t worry about what some other kid is doing . Let his parents worry about that . That is why kids have parents in the first place .



Honestly, if kids were always left to their parents, and no one stepped in ever, every kid on the planet would be seriously $&*#&@ up. I think what you said is incredibly condescending and rude. The kid is obviously old enough to make his own decisions - he does! He is old enough to be treated respectfully, and if everything that’s been said is true (and I’m not saying it is, nor am I saying that anyone can or should take the dogs away), it sounds like the kid needs some direction and his parents aren’t giving it to him.

Sorry skullkeeper, but not every parent is good at "handling the situation". Sometimes they need help, just like anyone else on the planet. Just like kids, just like anyone of any age. Maybe the parents really have no idea how bad the situation is. For all you know, one’s a drunk and one never comes home (again, totally not implying that’s true). I’m just saying, stop assuming you know everything about a situation.

As for that being why kids have parents in the first place, who are you to say? Sure, it would be great if the parents could deal with the situation in the best interest of both the dogs and their son. Unfortunately, they haven’t, and unfortunately, both the dogs and the kid are suffering the consequences. Kids have parents to protect them, to teach them, and to give them morals. Sometimes, honestly, parents suck at it. Stop being so high and mighty just because you’re a parent and remember that everyone is different and many parents are less than ideal, even if they do meet your standards in age.
08/07/08  01:40pm

 #1822972


Senshokukiba
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   Message To: Dragongirl6   In reference to Message Id: 1822906


 Maybe help?

I totally agree with DanaEliza and Dragongirl6. :D



08/07/08  02:56pm

 #1823039


Flamingflower
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   Message To: Dragongirl6   In reference to Message Id: 1822906


 Maybe help?

FutureVet- you are actually quite right about what you’ve said. His parents have been highly irresponsible. They allow him to do pretty much whatever he likes... and if he gets into illegal activities after few more years, who will correct him? If not his parents; then the law I’m afraid. Me just talking to them probably will not make much of a difference, but I will see to it that something is done.

DaneEliza- I understand where you are coming from- I really shouldn’t have said IMO... he DOES have a violent character. He lives in another state, I witnessed what he did while visiting him. He may not be still doing what he was, but I am very confident in my judgment. I could tell that the dog was jumping up in a welcoming way, he was a puppy at the time and hadn’t been played with that day. Seeing my cousin as his owner and typically the only one who interacts with him, he was happy to see him. There are ways to train a dog not to jump up on you without harming it. Hitting any animal is not the correct way to train it. He wasn’t interested in the "better less abusive ways" to stop the behavior at that time.
Having a video of a dog fight on your computer is not a crime. As I said before, in some states it is either a felony or misdemeanor to have in possession. I know what my cousin intended it for, which was his own enjoyment. You weren’t there, I was. His parents knew nothing of the video and do not monitor his activities.

I didn’t say that the animals would be taken, just that it was what I would be glad to see happen. I do not know whether the dogs are registered or not, and when you say that his parents didn’t care about the video, you may be right. They would probably tell him to stop watching them, whether he were to or not.

Skullkeeper- There are signs indicating that he has mental problems, and possibly that the dogs are being abused. He first starting exhibiting them at a young age. I did not ask you what is the correct way to train a dog not to jump up, so that was a waste of typing. My advice to you is, don’t post on my messages if you can’t think clearly when you post. I’m not trying to be rude- but I’ve noticed that you will often contradict your ownself. I will not stand by when an animal is possibly being abused. The Humane Society relies on complaints and the public to catch people who contribute and practice cruelty to animals. I was giving his parents a chance to worry about it, but clearly they are not doing their job properly. Some parents really have trouble with raising their kids, possibly because of the way they were raised by theirs. Also, I’ve never stated my age. I could be thirty years older than you for all you know. Skullkeeper, if you believe that people need to keep to their own business, why won’t you leave Kitty the raccoon and her owner to their own business? I’m not trying to cause a back-and-forth war, so don’t become offended by my comment. You are getting me to wondering about your own mental health. But leaving this alone isn’t going to change anything.


I’ve already decided on what should and will be done in terms of the situation. I’m wrapping this up, to those that helped I give thanks for the suggestions.




08/07/08  03:58pm

 #1823181


DaneEliza
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   Message To: Flamingflower   In reference to Message Id: 1823039


 Maybe help?

Ok, we’re taking over this thread.

The parents may or may not be responsible for their childs behavior. We’ll never know. Go with you gut instinct, even if it is to call the humane society. Who knows, maybe a visit from the humane society will fix his parents irresponsibilty on their childs actions. Truthfully, you’ll never know until you try.

Skullkeeper- Now you know you can’t always count on the parents. A child is a product of their environment, I learned that in highschool while taking Early Childhood Education classes. These people shouldn’t be known as just kids, they should be known as the intellegent, educated individuals they are. You don’t like it when they disrespect you and bash you, so just stop doing it to them. We can all get along whether we agree or disagree on each others opinions. Futurevet123 actually has some really good advise at most times, even is it isn’t correct now, most of the time it is. She’s not just a kid, she an intelligent kid who indeed knows what she is talking about, as is dragongirl16. They may be kids but they aren’t amatures at the advise they give and they do their research.

Don’t take it personal skull
08/07/08  06:29pm

 #1823256


Senshokukiba
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   Message To: DaneEliza   In reference to Message Id: 1823181


 Maybe help?

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, Flamingflower. ;)



08/07/08  07:20pm

 #1823477


Skullkeeper
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   Message To: Dragongirl6   In reference to Message Id: 1822906


 Maybe help?

I think what you said is incredibly naive and ignorant but then it is coming from a child so it is no surprise .



08/07/08  10:26pm

 #1823481


Skullkeeper
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   Message To: Senshokukiba   In reference to Message Id: 1822972


 Maybe help?

Senso- now that’s a surprise ,LOL



08/07/08  10:28pm

 #1823492


Skullkeeper
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   Message To: Flamingflower   In reference to Message Id: 1823039


 Maybe help?

Hon, I have no problem thinking clearly . You seem to have trouble understanding the English language . You stated that he hit the dog because he jumped up. I was simply telling you how other people train theirs dogs . That does not make it abuse . I also do not think a kid is in the position to be deciding if another child has mental problems .Like I said , its non of your business .As far as Kitty, well thank goodness Doug took the entire thread off so the cutesy pictures are no longer there to encourage others to go out and buy a raccoon .Exactly how did I contradict my self ? Post the quotes . I think you just misunderstood .I worked as a nurse in the psych ward of the VA Hospital in Chillicothe Ohio .I think I would be much more qualified than you to see signs of mental illness . Exactly what kind of medical/psych training have you had ?



08/07/08  10:39pm

 #1823503


Skullkeeper
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   Message To: DaneEliza   In reference to Message Id: 1823181


 Maybe help?

Dane - I agree that Futurevet is very mature , responsible and does give good advice most of the time .I like her very much . But I will not sugar coat my posts to apse’s anyone . I say it like I see it . I have no problem with kids . Some are vary intelligent but if I disagree I will not hesitate to say so . Some parents are not good parents but I do not think having a kid try to give then a good talking to is not going to help any thing . It will only infuriate the parents and make things worse . People can take my advice or leave it .

No offense taken
08/07/08  10:47pm

 #1823541


Senshokukiba
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   Message To: Skullkeeper   In reference to Message Id: 1823492


 Maybe help?

Quote:

Senso- now that’s a surprise ,LOL


Skullkeeper, I’m not always rude or sarcastic. :D

Quote:

I also do not think a kid is in the position to be deciding if another child has mental problems .


There’s nothing wrong with people mentioning her cousin might have a few mental issues. It doesn’t matter if they’re an expert on diagnosing mental problems. It’s not rocket science. When my sister slit her throat, I wasn’t a professional, yet I knew that she was suffering mentally. It doesn’t take a genius to determine that someone’s messed up mentally.

Quote:

Like I said , its non of your business .


He’s her cousin. Of course it’s her business. If hundreds of thousands of people didn’t get into other peoples’ business, there’d be a lot more dogs living in abusive homes. I hate how people drag this "It’s none of your business" bull into conversations. It’s stupid. If none of us focused on things that weren’t any of our business, then there’d be lots more criminals, abusers, etc. running around. Also, you can’t tell other people to stay out of other peoples’ business when you don’t.



08/07/08  11:25pm

 #1823753


Skullkeeper
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   Message To: Senshokukiba   In reference to Message Id: 1823541


 Maybe help?

Senso- Yes it does matter if they are an expert on diagnosing mental problems ! Its actually against the law to give medical advice , dispense medication or diagnose someone without a license,LOL . This is just one young persons opinion .She maybe right , that this kid is mentally off ( we have no way of knowing from what she said )but

Quote:

Getting into others business

is not something a minor should do. Like I said it will only anger the parents . They are not going to take her advice on raising children when she has no experience . If she wants to talk to her parents and see if they would approach this girls parents then that’s one thing or report them to the humane society .It is not only stupid , but it could make matters much worse in the family if she thinks she can tell adults how to raise their kids . There is a right way and a wrong way of handling things. If your under age , ask for help from an adult .

And yes I can tell people to mind their own business .



08/08/08  07:41am

 #1823816


DaneEliza
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   Message To: Skullkeeper   In reference to Message Id: 1823753


 Maybe help?

Wow.....you two are arguing over something stupid. It isn’t any of our business what goes on with her and her cousin so just get off of it. It looks to me like this is no longer a debate.

Flamingflower- Go with you gut instinct, don’t listen to what other people say. If you believe in your heart that your cousin is being abusive towards his dogs then you do what you must to try and fix it. Even if it means trying to talk to his parents. Most adults like skullkeeper will not listen to what a child has to say, this is very obvious, but if you were to come to me and try and give me advise about something I had no knowledge of, I think I would listen. Like I said before, you’ll never know until you try, who knows maybe what they need is for someone to step in and say "hey! Thats wrong."

By the way, animal abuse isn’t just the animal being physically abused, it’s neglect and mental abuse to. Just the same as humans.

Skulkeeper- This is not a psyc ward forum, it’s an animal forum, therefore you concentrate more so on the mental health of the animals and not the people. You are arguing over something so pointless and it’s dumb. So just stop!

We are all mature, intelligent people and there is not reason to break out into an arguement that has no point or referance to the question!



08/08/08  09:41am

 #1823895


Skullkeeper
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   Message To: DaneEliza   In reference to Message Id: 1823816


 Maybe help?

I could care less about the mental health of the dog or owner . I was simply responding to the accusations Senso made . I am not the one that constantly starts the arguments .
08/08/08  11:27am

 #1823910


FutureVet123
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   Message To: DaneEliza   In reference to Message Id: 1823181


 Maybe help?

Quote:

Futurevet123 actually has some really good advise at most times, even is it isn’t correct now, most of the time it is. She’s not just a kid, she an intelligent kid who indeed knows what she is talking about


Thank you very much, I appreciate that
I’m really not trying to start something, and Skullkeeper has opened my eyes to the fact that a kid talking to a parent probably won’t change much, but I would just like to point out that I suggested for the OP’s parents to talk to them. There’s not a lot you can do about the situation right now, as I’ve learned from several other posters, if you’re not positive he is actually abusing the dog. Maybe you could call him and ask him about his dogs and see what he says. I wouldn’t talk to him about responsibility, just casually ask him how the Min Pin and the puppies and the Pit Bulls mommy and daddy are. You can even just play it along like you need advice training your dog and ask him on his dog training methods. A lot can change in a year.
-Peaches and Jeni



08/08/08  11:39am

 #1824076


DaneEliza
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   Message To: FutureVet123   In reference to Message Id: 1823910


 Maybe help?

Now thats an idea
08/08/08  01:54pm

 #1824081


Skullkeeper
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   Message To: FutureVet123   In reference to Message Id: 1823910


 Maybe help?

Futurevet -I think that’s sound advice !
08/08/08  01:59pm

 #1824099


Senshokukiba
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   Message To: Skullkeeper   In reference to Message Id: 1824081


 Maybe help?

DanaEliza, I’m not arguing. Like Skullkeeper, I just replied to someone’s statement. There’s nothing wrong with that. We’re just have a friendly debate.

I’m done posting now. Once again, good luck, Flamingflower.
08/08/08  02:11pm

 #1824446


Flamingflower
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   Message To: Senshokukiba   In reference to Message Id: 1824099


 Maybe help?

Thank you.
08/08/08  08:18pm


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