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 #2028480


WolfRin
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 HELP! DOG BARKING!

We got a call this morning about someone complaining about my dog, Shadow, barking. There giving us a $500 fine and THEY SAID WE HAVE TO GET SHOCK COLLARS!!! no way am i ever putting a shock collar anywhere near my dogs! Hes 11 and we think he barks at this raccoon in a tree near his pen, hes a golden retriever and i have had him since i was 5, we cant get rid of him. Please if anyone knows what to do please tell me, i really dont and will not use a shock collar :,(
06/25/09  08:45am

 #2028486


Ghastly
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   Message To: WolfRin   In reference to Message Id: 2028480


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

Can you not call pest control to remove the raccoon? Or move your dogs house?



06/25/09  09:07am

 #2028500


WolfRin
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   Message To: Ghastly   In reference to Message Id: 2028486


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

We arent really sure if it is a raccoon, thats just my guess and hes in a wire pen with concrete under it, its impossible to move
06/25/09  09:32am

 #2028504


Ghastly
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   Message To: WolfRin   In reference to Message Id: 2028500


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

I thought he had a wooden dog house

Perhaps he is just going crazy most dogs i hae known tend to "loose" it due to being in a pen and bark evan whwn they have always been bought up in one well put in it when there owners go to work same as dogs in kennels/shelters they could be a lovely quite dog but are stressed out by the run they are kept in

Perhaps it is just simple he is not hapoy in the run and is barking for attention and to be let out how long is he in there for?
06/25/09  09:37am

 #2028510


WolfRin
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   Message To: Ghastly   In reference to Message Id: 2028504


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

He only barks at night though :/ but that does sound like its it, hes in the pen with our other golden retriever, Buddy, who doesnt really bark at all. Shadow doesnt come out of the pen much since he has hip problems but that is one thing i have been wondering, could he be in pain? but i think he would bark during the day too if it was :/ I walk Buddy every once and a while but i cant walk Shadow too due to him not being able to walk very far without getting tired
06/25/09  09:50am

 #2028525


Ghastly
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   Message To: WolfRin   In reference to Message Id: 2028510


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

Well our family dog Cassie she is a chocolate Labrador she is only 4 but the vetbsays she has one of the worst cases of hip dysplacia he has seen in the past 10years he says it is that bad she needs her operation when she is 5 and most dogs that are in there senior years have better HD than Cassie well our house is all wooden flooring (pretty much every house in Norway is) well if she sits some where that doesnt have a cushion, blanket or her bed she gets in some agony and finds it really sore to get up so i can only imagine that the concrete floor does what the wooden floor does to Cassie so i would say let him stay inside at night time and if not get ALOT of beanbag beds dont go for the cheapest thinnest ones as well they wont do much i would recommend bean bag beds and the styrofoam vet fleece beds some of which are also available to keep heat in
06/25/09  10:22am

 #2028527


Senshokukiba
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   Message To: WolfRin   In reference to Message Id: 2028510


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

If you’re not interested in a shock collar, why not get one that vibrates? There are also collars that spray water and beep.

If you need fast results, go with a shock collar though. You might think they’re cruel and inhumane now, but when you get another fine, you’ll think twice.



06/25/09  10:27am

 #2028942


WolfRin
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   Message To: Senshokukiba   In reference to Message Id: 2028527


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

Where going to try and put him in a closed area for tonight and see how that goes, we have a fenced in pool area where he wouldnt be able to see out of the area (we got rid of our pool a year ago so its empty now) hopefully that will work, if not we have a small cabin about the size of a shed that we could put him in, i used to use it for a play house type thing when i was younger but im to old for that now XD so where just using it for storage.

The vet said he doesnt appear to be in any pain and that he might be def/partly def and that could be causing him to bark.

As for the fine i dont really care about, i would rather pay a fine then put anything that would hurt my dogs on them. I like to think "if u wouldnt like that to be done to u, then y do it to a dog?" i sure wouldnt like a random shock everytime i tried to talk/warn about something.
06/25/09  08:04pm

 #2029366


Senshokukiba
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   Message To: WolfRin   In reference to Message Id: 2028942


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

Quote:

As for the fine i don’t really care about, i would rather pay a fine then put anything that would hurt my dogs on them.


Have you ever even used a shock collar?

Electric collars are only painful if used improperly. This goes for any training device though. Anything that’s not used correctly is potentially harmful. It’s not the tool that’s cruel. It’s the improper use of the tool. Choke chains, prong collars, and similar tools are far worse.

The shock you receive from an electric collar is similar to one you get from static charge. If you drag your feet on a carpet and then touch metal, you’ll usually get shocked. The shock you experience from this is the same as the one a dog experiences when equipped with an electric collar. I’d hardly call that "hurtful or painful".

Quote:

"if u wouldn’t like that to be done to u, then y do it to a dog?"


I feel like I’m back in elementary school. How old are you?

I wouldn’t like to eat dog food, but I make my dog eat it. I wouldn’t like to wear a collar 24/ 7, but I make my dog wear one. I wouldn’t want to be leashed every time I go for a walk, but I still leash my dog. It’s the same thing.

Quote:

i sure wouldnt like a random shock everytime i tried to talk/warn about something.


You’re a human. You know when to speak and when not to speak. Your dog on the other hand, doesn’t. You need to show him. If my little brother started yelling continuously because he saw a raccoon in the yard, I wouldn’t think, "Gee, he’s trying to warn me, so I’ll let him continue to yell." I’d tell him to be quiet. Am I being mean by doing this? No. Your dog needs to learn that there are times when barking is fine and times when it’s not fine.

How you show him this is up to you.



06/26/09  03:44pm

 #2029368


Senshokukiba
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   Message To: Senshokukiba   In reference to Message Id: 2029366


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

Oh, and I’m not trying to convince you to use a shock collar on your dog. I’m just trying to inform you that shock collars are not as painful and. or harmful as you seem to think.

Good luck with your dog.
06/26/09  03:47pm

 #2031777


Bmoran3
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   Message To: WolfRin   In reference to Message Id: 2028480


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

well why is the nabor telling u what 2 do?
06/30/09  08:21pm

 #2031868


SugarFox03
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   Message To: Bmoran3   In reference to Message Id: 2031777


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

Good grief, why on earth are people still recommending shock collars? I won’t go into details about how they don’t work to fix the problem, only to recommend things that will.

Owner of the dog, is it not possible to bring the dog inside at night? Dogs thrive on interaction with people, there’s a good change the dog is a boredom barker since it’s getting no attention being outside in a pen. The dog is old, 11 yrs, when is the last time he’s been to the vet? What mind stimulating toys, games does he have to keep himself occupied in the pen? If he’s not in pain and there’s nothing physically wrong, how much exercise is he getting? How often is he out of the pen? You mentioned a raccoon in a tree, any way of finding out if this is really the cause, and removing said ’coon?

Sure, shock collars work to quickly halt the problem, but as soon as they are taken off, the dog is right back to barking. There’s much better ways to deal with a problem barker than a shock collar, and I commend the owner for not wanting to go that route. Anyone recommending the use of shock collars or other harsh training devices should really do some more research on canine behavior & ethology (currently one of my topics of study, and so am quite passionate about,) before recommending them again. They hurt, that’s why they work.



06/30/09  11:13pm

 #2032131


Senshokukiba
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   Message To: SugarFox03   In reference to Message Id: 2031868


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

Quote:

Sure, shock collars work to quickly halt the problem, but as soon as they are taken off, the dog is right back to barking.


If you follow the instructions that come with a shock collar, that’s not true. When you put a shock collar on a dog, you’re supposed to let it remain on the dog for at least two weeks before using it. Doing this ensures that the dog doesn’t associate the shock collar with the shock it receives. If you put a shock collar on a dog and imediatly start using it, the dog will automatically know what’s causing the shock. This isn’t what you want. Do a little research before replying.

Quote:

Anyone recommending the use of shock collars or other harsh training devices should really do some more research on canine behavior & ethology (currently one of my topics of study, and so am quite passionate about,) before recommending them again.


I’m only suggesting the shock collar as a last resort. I’ve seen dogs get taken away because their owners don’t control their barking.

Quote:

They hurt, that’s why they work.


Once again, they don’t hurt.

Don’t lecture me on how they’re cruel until you’ve actually tested one.



07/01/09  01:39pm

 #2032162


Ghastly
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   Message To: Senshokukiba   In reference to Message Id: 2032131


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

I will be honest here about shock collers me, Aska, Jåmes and Aska’s big brother Zache we were in the pet store and we tried the shock collers for a laugh and we had been drinking which is proberly why we put the shocks on and honestly i dont see the problem using them on a dog it is like a strong pins and needles feeling if i never done that with Zache then i proberly would be against them but stupidly applying it to my neck but honestly they are not that bad as you would think
07/01/09  02:45pm

 #2032383


SugarFox03
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   Message To: Ghastly   In reference to Message Id: 2032162


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

Senshokukiba: Ok then, since I have used shock collatrs extensively when I was interning with a professional dog trainer last year (that’s when I realized that the style of training he used is NOT what I wanted to be doing,) who trained local police K-9’s, I have a right to say that shock collars are cruel and painful. I have seen first hand dogs react to being shocked, the first time they get zapped, EVERY SINGLE DOG yelped out in pain and confusion. Why use pain and punishment when the same thing can be trained using positive reinforcement? And yes, I shocked myself for S&G’s (wasn’t stupid enough to put it around my neck, I used my fingers), just to see what the dog would feel, and even though I KNEW it was coming, it still startled me. Sure, it won’t drop a full grown adult to the ground, but we are thinking, moral beings that understand where the shock is coming from. Dogs have NO idea when they are about to get zapped. Or if you poorly time the zap, they have NO IDEA WHY they are getting it. Why on earth cause that kind of stress on your COMPANION? Timing is cruciel in taining, absolutely the most important thing is properly timing your reward mark (or punishment, if that’s your way - I won’t agree with you). A poorly timed reward mark equals out to a freebie treat for your dog - not that big of a deal. A poorly timed punishment/correction can really screw up a dog as they will have no idea what they are being punished for doing wrong. Please tell me, Senshokukiba, how that is fair? How much studying have you done on canine behavior & ethology? How many dogs have you trained professionally? How many training seminars have you gone to? How far have you trained a dog in competitive obedience? Really, I’m dying to know how much you don’t know about canine behavior.

So, until you have some REAL WORKING knowledge on shock collars, [or dog training & behavior for that matter] and not a drunken night with your pals messing around with one because you had nothing better to do, don’t recommend something you obviously know nothing about.



07/01/09  09:02pm

 #2032385


SugarFox03
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   Message To: SugarFox03   In reference to Message Id: 2032383


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

My apologies, I mixed in ghastly’s reply about putting a shock collar around their neck. Still think that was pretty stupid.



07/01/09  09:04pm

 #2032432


Senshokukiba
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   Message To: SugarFox03   In reference to Message Id: 2032383


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

SugarFox0, it seems I’ve had my kicked. - Dramatic music-

Any dog that’s properly trained with a shock collar, Miss Big Shot, will associate barking with being shocked. All of this ( say this in a squeaky and pitiful voice) "Dogs suffer from so much stress and pain when you shock them" is BS. If shock collars did cause as much suffering as you claim, I’d never recommend them.

You have your opinion, and I have mine. My opinion is that shock collars are not cruel and, or inhumane, if used correctly.

Despite what you believe, I strongly believe in positive training. Because of this, I won’t be using any fancy collars, chains, or leads in the future. I’m not going to badmouth people who do use these devices though because there are some instances where they’re necessary.

Any way... this has certianly been an enlightening conversation ( I suppose it’s really an argument).
07/01/09  10:02pm

 #2032445


SugarFox03
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   Message To: Senshokukiba   In reference to Message Id: 2032432


 HELP! DOG BARKING!

But why use a shock collar if the same behavior can be trained using positive reinforcement? A dog, when trained properly, will not bark incessantly, no matter what technique is used...so your argument that a properly trained shock collar dog will stop barking is useless. A dog that was trained using a more humane method will too, not bark. Ask any of the real "Big Shot" behaviorists what they think about shock collars, choke chains, prong collars...and they will all say they are an outdated way of training. There’s been HUGE strides made in the positive dog training field the last decade or two, many of the "traditional" (read: correction-based) trainers have changed their way of training as they are seeing better results using reward-based methods. Why would anyone choose to correct their dog for doing something wrong (and believe it or not, an animal must see something as aversive for it to work as a correction. I’m sure dogs don’t think shock collars are on the same level as a belly rub,) when they can praise & reward their dog for doing something right. Behaviors that are reinforced are much more likely to be repeated. Behaviors that aren’t reinforcing for the dog aren’t repeated (this is called "extinction.")

Anyway, if you want to learn more about positive training, let me know. I’d be glad to point you in direction of some good info.

To the OP, so sorry this thread got hijacked. I really hope you’re able to get your dog to stop barking.



07/01/09  10:19pm


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