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Hoppy Hoppy Hoppy JackAsp Hoppy |
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Hoppy View Profile |
Understanding chytrid fungus
These are earlier posts I made on the tree frog forum.......... Chytrid fungus / lamisil treatments Lately I have been hearing alot of information on treating frogs when you first purchase them.... Whether it be Mela Fix or Lamisil or whatever.... I want to go on record here to say "DO NOT TREAT ANY FROGS UNLESS CERTAIN THEY ARE ILL" I do not believe in treating healthy frogs. I realize that they could be carriers under some conditions of chytrid fungus.... I just think mass panic is not the answer and to risk every frog in care at this time goes beyond scientific data to treat with Lamisil..... This is and should be each individuals choice..... Long term effects have not been trusted or given for my liking as its all relitively new. The Lamisil MAY cure the fungus but until breeding and long term studies etc have been conducted its all too much risk factor for my liking.... It does have promising results so far and I THANK those that are passing word to other keepers etc. We all want this to continue..... First let me assure everyone that currently there is absolutely no guarantee of ’CURE’ for Chytrid Fungus.... I truly wish it could be this simple... And it may be if studies were conducted with the help of vets confirm diagnosis of chytrid by PCR test and then this treatment... Its something many are working on and looks promising at least.... The best studies were conducted on horned toads.... Horned toads are thought carriers and born with it or so thought. Even this though true has not been studied enough to know if other species can also be the same and which and how many.... Though considered a potential inhibitor its not ’PROVEN’ that the frogs had Chytrid in the first place... Many of these studies were done back in the 1990’s.... If it had been this successful we wouldn’t be facing a ’CRISIS’ currently worldwide.... In Canada they are gathering frogs to put in zoos and safe places to try and breed them hoping that Chytrid burns itself out and then these frogs hopefully bred over this period to be re-released... Or a cure found.. Now that said... The run down on Lamisil... Lamisil (AT) has a generic name of Terbinafine.... comes in spray, cream and tablets.... Pharmacology: Terbinafine is an allylamine which has a broad spectrum of antifungal activity. At low concentrations terbinafine is fungicidal against dermatophytes, molds and certain dimorphic fungi. Its activity against yeasts is fungicidal or fungistatic, depending on the species. Terbinafine interferes specifically with fungal sterol biosynthesis by inhibition of squalene epoxidase in the fungal cell membrane. Its inhibition leads to a deficiency in ergosterol and to an intracellular accumulation of squalene, resulting in fungal cell death. When given orally, the drug concentrates rapidly in skin, hair and nails at levels associated with fungicidal activity. The cream and spray have rapid onsets of action, concentrate in skin, and can be effective with short durations of treatment. Precautions: General: Terbinafine tablets are not recommended for patients with chronic or active liver disease. Before prescribing terbinafine tablets, pre-existing liver disease should be assessed. Hepatotoxicity may occur in patients with and without pre-existing liver disease. Pretreatment serum transaminase (ALT and AST) tests are advised for all patients before taking terbinafine tablets. Patients prescribed terbinafine tablets should be warned to report immediately to their physician any symptoms of persistent nausea, anorexia, fatigue, vomiting, right upper abdominal pain or jaundice, dark urine or pale stools (see Warnings). Patients with these symptoms should discontinue taking oral terbinafine, and the patient’s liver function should be immediately evaluated. In patients with renal impairment (creatinine clearance £50 mL/min), the use of terbinafine has not been adequately studied, and therefore, is not recommended (see Pharmacology, Pharmacokinetics). Changes in the ocular lens and retina have been reported following the use of terbinafine tablets in controlled trials. The clinical significance of these changes is unknown. Transient decreases in absolute lymphocyte counts (ALC) have been observed in controlled clinical trials. The clinical significance of this observation is unknown. However, in patients with known or suspected immunodeficiency, physicians should consider monitoring complete blood counts in individuals using terbinafine therapy for greater than 6 weeks. Isolated cases of severe neutropenia have been reported. These were reversible upon discontinuation of terbinafine, with or without supportive therapy. If clinical signs and symptoms suggestive of secondary infection occur, a complete blood count should be obtained. If the neutrophil count is £1000 cells/mm 3, terbinafine should be discontinued and supportive management started. ............................................................................. I won’t put the remedy for frogs here as I can’t see it benefiting anyone without a vets confirmation of chytrid... If confirmed then you have nothing to lose but to try it....... If you have success with this treatment please let everyone know but a PCR test must confirm chytrid to value the cure..... HOPPY Well water with amphibians / chytrid fungus In the past well water was considered safe if treated with water treatment drops to combat heavy metals... Its now found that wells are one of the carriers of chytrid fungus to our amphibians.....Makes sense considering how wells fill themselves... Anyone using well water would be well advised to switch to alternative source.... Chytrid like all fungus and bacterial pass through moisture even damp soil and can live in any condition other than dry desert....So far out survives extreme cold temps.... Crickets can carry if exposed to contaminated soil or frog waste etc... Only put crix in one tank, do not remove for another tank with another frog..... Ponds, streams etc all can carry chytrid which is why water run off that fills wells is a potential risk.. I will have to check on spring water as I can’t see how its not contaminated if water is placed straight into bottles or whether its treated first.... City water systems look the best at present.. Don’t panic on the spring water yet.... I will need to verify contamination results.. *** Most spring water does go through a purification process so should be safe... Insure yours does by checking its website for its method and insure fungi is listed for removal..... |
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| 05/09/08 04:27pm |
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Hoppy View Profile |
Message To: Hoppy In reference to Message Id: 1730467 Understanding chytrid fungus
Please talk to someone like myself before using this. Its not a cure all and should be seen as a remedy for chytrid only. Currently pcr testing is the only way to confirm. The cost is around 20 US. by vet. This is the first time I have even recommeded its useage for a pacman frog which is a known carrier under the circumstances....... I only wish I could place credit here where credit is due... This treatment may very well solve the crisis of chytrid... Anyone that copies this remedy please mention that this is a private study of remedy by an oregon herpetologist in testing stages. This covers any credit being taken by someone else; as the mela fix remedy is by myself (HOPPY).... Chytrid fungus treatment.. Its vital after each treatment the substrate be changed ok? Which is daily. And the tank wiped with the solution to kill the fungi. Keep your tank sparse while undergoing treatment.. Temps should be kept at 80f for a pacman when ill.... Humidity keep low..don’t mist. You need to get Lamisil AT spray (don’t get the paste) only. This is a foot fungus remedy for people found at most drug stores... You need 1ml of the spray to 200 ml of treated water (approx 10 squirts ( 1ml) of spray into the treated water approx (6 1/2 ounzes) )........ Using a small plastic throw away type cup (any will do as long as you can get rid of it after). Place enough of the solution to cover most of the frog. The trick here is to mist his head after he is in the cup or splash him or even a quick dunk of his head by turning the cup.. (whatever is easiest just don’t dunk him under for long)... You only need to insure all of him gets the solution.... The dip is for 5 min so insure all the water etc is room temp or slightly warm the water before solution is added..this is just for the remainder of the frogs body... not the head... ( just do the head first and then let him stay in the solution for the 5 min dip) While he is dipping this is a good time to clean the tank out....mist the solution in the tank and wipe out...no rinse required... Everything in the tank must be wiped with the solution... Then new paper towel replaced and items put back.... The treatment is for 10 days..... It must be followed to the T.... HOPPY *Insure as you go that your hands are also kept clean from cross contamination... So when removing frog and putting in dish..wash your hands before going to the tank etc.. Some use gloves... ** The solution when mixed is only good for around 30 hours and then its potency decreases. Its supposed to last say 3 days of treatment. I prefer a fresh solution each day but thats up to you... Fresh cup for the solution for the dip is vital. *** So far no ill effects have been found with this method. It has proven effective however in killing the fungi.. You may notice more shed as with any treatment of medication dip... **** Never place back plants or earth without sterilizing them.... I would just throw them. There is a heat method for plants but it does kill some.... To me its just not worth the risk... I would rather buy new plants and replant into sterile earth (cooked) and plants washed so insure they don’t carry the fungi. It has been found at the bottom of ponds... You can do multiple frogs easily also by using a bunch of cups and cleaning out enclosures... |
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| 05/09/08 04:47pm |
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Hoppy View Profile |
Message To: Hoppy In reference to Message Id: 1730495 Understanding chytrid fungus
I have been asked why I will not promote the use of this treatment upon shipments of frogs arrival into our country or if wild caught local and in breeders collections etc? Also for any one that owns frogs... My answer: Though the success is outstanding currently and the frogs tested and treated stay healthy the long term effects upon generations aren’t known. If for any reason this treatment causes birth defects whether in the eggs or upon morphing is unknown. The outcome of future generations at this point is just to soon to know and in my opinion to much to risk... When treating every frog if we all did it, my worry remains that there will be no recourse as every frog in captivity will be effected from the treatment. All outside frogs currently could be infected with the disease which leaves no choice but treatment to be given.... I’m hoping hobby breeders stock may be without chytrid and remain clean of any possible disruption in normalcy from treatment..... If we jump too soon our intervention could be a worse situation with catastrophic results worse than those faced with chytrid. Currently some frogs are carriers which means they can survive the disease unless other forces like stress etc come into play... It gives us another chance to ’cure’.. HOPPY |
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| 05/10/08 08:11am |
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JackAsp View Profile |
Message To: Hoppy In reference to Message Id: 1730939 Understanding chytrid fungus
I was under the impression that if it was CB there wasn’t really a big risk of bringing it in with anything besides African Claweds. Great. One more thing to worry about if I get a new frog. |
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| 05/14/08 01:42am |
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Hoppy View Profile |
Message To: JackAsp In reference to Message Id: 1734878 Understanding chytrid fungus
They are all under risk of being a carrier even captive. Like many diseases its hidden so many breeders stock can already have it without symptoms... The symptoms in these particular frogs only show if under duress like cold or other environmental issues... Because the chytrid is found in soil and in the bottom of ponds I think you will see many turn out to be carriers. Chyrid currently is found all over the world including Alaska which they were hoping might be a turning point of cold killing it...However instead it lies dormant is my understanding and then thrives anywhere below the 75f range......... Many breeders are testing one frog in their collection first by the pcr test by vet. If one has they all do....if it shows negative then they try the next... If any show they treat the lot... Its highly contagious but there is always that possibility of one tank being infected and another not as they are seperate habitats... So generally if one in a tank is infected then that whole tank should be done/treated and if the other tank has one show negative then its a safe tank... By the way..they have found plants can infect frogs if exposed to the chytrid previously... I tell everyone to destroy the plants and soil ( in infected tanks only) but you can ’high’ cook the tank to kill it.. This method kills the plants usually anyway... Or you can soak plants in a bleach solution but this also kills them usually... To me if saving the frogs I chuck plants as I worry over reinfection.. Destroy the plants with bleach or something in case its exposes the waste sites and it carries through birds etc if your chucking the plants and dirt.... I hope this helps your Jack.. HOPPY |
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| 05/14/08 10:45am |
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