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 #1519925


S.
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 Just a little rant

Hi all~
A few minor things that have been bugging me that I have seen A LOT of lately on this and other forums...

People really CAN’T make $$$ from breeding cresteds if you consider how much it costs just to get set up and take care of them tell they are old enough to sell. Housing, food incubation stuff and all the other little stuff that come into it that you never consider tell the last min. I am going to breed my cresties next year and I have spent about 3000.00 setting up for all the things... web page to sell them on camera to take there pictures with cages for hold backs and hatch-lings plus cage needs and a 400.00 wine fridge for incubation (keeps the insides at what ever temps I set them to by a heating and cooling system). It’s much more costly than most people consider. I will be happy if in the next few seasons I just make that all back. Plus then what do you do with the ones that don’t sell? DO you have A FEW pet stores in the area who are willing to take the ones you cant sell by them selves? I have 3 that I have that are willing but that is only because I know the owners and I am over 18. Most pet stores are not will to deal with you if you are under 18 and most will only give you store credit for the animals anyways. IMO, You should breed only if its because its a hobby and you enjoy it...if you end up making some extra cash that’s a bonus not the goal. There is just to much of a cost to do it correctly unless you do it on a large scale like AC reptiles or a few others. And to do it for extra cash is not something that can really be done because the massive amount of money and time it takes each day just to get everyone feeded and cleaned. Its a part time job that must be done every day. In general people who get into breeding to make money are the ones that end up breeding and selling poor sickly animals because they are the ones who are not willing to take the time and money to raise up healthy and happy animals. And they are also the ones that make it hard for good breeders to make $ from there hobby because they drive down the cost/value of the animals in question.

Please excuse my little tirade, but I am having a hard time seeing all the people who want to breed and "make money" from these guys. I know at one time I kind of thought the same thing. And the more I looked into it the more it became apparent that its a hobby not a true business unless like I said before, you do it on a large scale and end up making it your life.

... I don’t mean to offend anyone...just a little rant I need to get off my chest. I don’t know if any one agrees with me or not...this may just be me and only me.
11/19/07  04:19pm

 #1520061


Comet3705
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   Message To: S.   In reference to Message Id: 1519925


 Just a little rant

I know how you feel.

I got lucky with me breeding, I have my parents who are behind me 100% if anythign goes wrong.

Im not goign to go through that WHOLE thing answering the questions, because im sick and dont have much will in me right now(so iscuse the mispells right now please)

This is most likely a one time thing for me until i’m older. I want to be a Reptile breeder and Store owner, so im "planning For my Future" in a different way. Im breeding right now for the fun of it, I love Cresteds and I’m going to love having little ones crawling around my house(not literally :D ). I have A seriosu camera($430 it cost me). I most likely will only have one to two holdbacks(yes its goign to be ahard not to keep them all, I know it already :] )
If things go out of hand, then yes I do have a petstore, I know the guy, He said he would give me a fair price based on the morph of the gecko(I know the guy as a good freind and trust him). The petstore is Local, and is very popular for various thingas. Its one of nine places that has an Ivory Spurred Tortiose.

The Money I make, Well 85% of it is goign to my college fund. I have a local breeder, Cookreptiles, who is helping me out A LOT! She is helpign me with the website, shipping, and let me do a breeder loan with Scoot since she wasn’t using him and the guy who was goign to buy him...didn’t.

Im doing this for the smilin g little geckos and to help me for the future with a hobby that will be my living.

:D

later.
11/19/07  06:05pm

 #1520098


Cherrykins
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1520061


 Just a little rant

I’ll admit I once thought the same thing. My male, though, ended up being sterile {the previous owner failed to mention that, of course!} as far as my breeder and I can tell, so there wouln’t be any breeding going on...it was probobly about then that I realized I couldn’t handle letting them go. My breeder’s giving me two of his babies {he breeds on a large-scale, has too many so I’m getting two harleys and maybe a red}, which I think is better for me...I wouln’t have to get rid of them, and I can grow them from teenie-tiny babies. I think that’s the most joyful part.
I don’t know what I was thinking...breeding rats and letting them go was hard enough!
11/19/07  06:37pm

 #1520700


S.
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   Message To: Cherrykins   In reference to Message Id: 1520098


 Just a little rant

Ya thats my problem...I gonna end up wanting to keep them all as "hold backs".

Oh and how do you like this idea guys. When I get my web page up I will offer a discount on my cresteds to people who send me a picture of the tank that they will be going into (as long as it meets all the requirements).



11/20/07  02:23am

 #1520743


Cherrykins
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   Message To: S.   In reference to Message Id: 1520700


 Just a little rant

I think the one issue with that is people might fraud you and give you a picture of someone else’s tank, so I’d suggest don’t mention it until they show you. :P
11/20/07  06:35am

 #1520827


Yogo
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   Message To: Cherrykins   In reference to Message Id: 1520743


 Just a little rant

There’s plenty of money to be made with any breeding project. You just have to get your expenses cut down to the bare minimum. If you buy wholesale and bulk youll be able to cut costs tremendously. And when you start breeding it will be slow until you get some decent hold backs but once youve got those hold backs it shouldnt be hard to make money at all. You can easily charge $150-200 for high color/pattern morph juvies and proven breeders can sell for a LOT of money depending on the morph. I agree with you on the fact that it takes a lot of money to get started but you can get a successful breeding project started for as little as $1000. Its only like $20 a year to host a website at godaddy and HTML is easy to learn. Cameras arent cheap but most people already have one for home use so you cant really consider that a breeding expense unless youre forking out cash for a D-SLR which isnt really necessary. I get great pics with my Canon S5 IS which only cost me $250 (after my discount, lol) but auto-focus is a pain in the . I really hope this whole thread hasnt discouraged anyone and has just made people aware of the costs. One of the most fun things in the herp hobby is breeding and I think everyone should be able to take advantage of it. I know Im going to be starting next spring with 3 females and 2 males and Im not going to be going through all the trouble to buy a wine cooler and all that stuff. In all truth, you can incubate at room temperature depending on where you live. Ive made an incubator out of a cheap Styrofoam cooler and a fish tank heater before. Anyhow, good luck everyone on your breeding projects. Hope you’re cooling your geckos! ^^
11/20/07  09:11am

 #1520841


Comet3705
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   Message To: Yogo   In reference to Message Id: 1520827


 Just a little rant

S. I do like that idea, But like Cherrykins said, they could send you a different photo. Better yet, What if they couldnt afford a camera to take pics with. Im just saying there could be a LOT of obsticles(terrible spellling.)

I Don’t think ill make that great of a profit, But if I do. AWESOME! maybe keep my favorites. If possible.

As for the website thing, Emily is going to set up a nice one for me, IF I have the money(which is cheap for a website) or if she finds an interest in a few geckos then Ill do a trde.
11/20/07  09:33am

 #1521025


S.
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1520841


 Just a little rant

I on the other hand do hope this gets people thing twice about breeding, its not something that should be taken lightly not just the cost but the over all responsibility involved.

The point, Yogo, is to not go cheap because if you start thinking that way you start getting into the mind frame of how to go cheaper and then the animals suffer. I agree getting in bulk and getting some things cheaper is better like tanks on sale or from a manufacture (need a business license for that most times)...other such...but what about vits...some people don’t use them because of cost..then what about tank size...10gal are a lot cheaper than 20’s so on and so forth. I know you take great care of you animals and I am not talking about you..I’m not talking about anyone really...I’m just talking because it bugs me how many people are breeding and how may poor sick animals I have seen lately. Then there are people who never even take the reptiles to a vet. Its just frustrating. Thats all.
Like I said above this is not meant at anyone it more of a rant...you know?
Just to get people thinking, that’s all.

Oh and I got the wine cooler because I live in an area that gets very hot in the summer and don’t want to incubate on the hot side. I want a set incubation, I tend to just be that way.



11/20/07  02:17pm

 #1521100


BC Bloodlines
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   Message To: S.   In reference to Message Id: 1521025


 Just a little rant

As a breeder all I can really say is if you are getting into breeding to make money then you are foolish. Yes there is a possability of making money over and above your initial and daily costs but in nearly all cases it is neglegable. If you are pondering whether to breed ask yourself if its because you love the animals and the hoby more than the money you think you may gain from it. If the answer is no then you should stop before you go any further.

I buy bulk, wholesale and at great deals from fellow breeders. I agree that it lowers costs but to say that you will build a career out of your passion is honestly going to be a lie. There are such a finite group of breeders that have made a self sufficient business out of breeding and they most definetly would tell you the same thing. Do it for the love not the money.



11/20/07  03:50pm

 #1521221


Houdini1
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   Message To: BC Bloodlines   In reference to Message Id: 1521100


 Just a little rant

This coming spring will be the start of my first breeding season, I am really excited. I have spent a ton of money on the things I need.

I can’t even begin to break it all down lol. I am not planning on making any money though, this is more for fun than anything else. Something I have wanted to do for years.

Something I have been considering. My grandmother was diagnosed with breast cancer last year, she has a really long battle with it, and it spread. She ended up finally going into remission, but it scared me half to death. What I would like to do is take 25 to 50% of the price of each gecko that I sell, and donate to breast cancer research, as well as research for alzheimer’s, since my great grandmother had it.
Or splitting it take 50% of the price, and donating some to cancer research and some to our local humane society.

I know it won’t be a whole lot to donate, but its really important to me.
Its something I have really put some thought into and I would really like to do.



11/20/07  05:41pm

 #1521739


S.
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   Message To: Houdini1   In reference to Message Id: 1521221


 Just a little rant

I have been considering something of the sort, that and donating the profits to the local reptile rescue group I work with. They need so much help and there are so many reptiles they put up all the time with no income. I have been donating my time and a little $$$ to them over the last few years and I think it would help. The breast cancer group is a good idea, I will have to consider that as well. My grandmother had it, she died a few years ago. My grandfather died of Parkinson’s 2 years ago, each (and many more) are worthy causes.



11/21/07  01:35am

 #1522476


Koiscale451
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   Message To: S.   In reference to Message Id: 1521739


 Just a little rant

I agree with S., little money can be made with breeding cresties. For me it’s just a hobby, I have a female with some eggies on the way, and with the money I spent on thier cages/feeding/supplies, it’ll take quite a few babies sold to even make up for that. I do have plans incase all the babies don’t sell, and I have many relatives that are helping me out.
We should keep this thread bumped so that new people thinking of $$$ from breeding can see why its not so much of a good idea.



11/21/07  08:45pm

 #1526821


Acidraindrips
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   Message To: Koiscale451   In reference to Message Id: 1522476


 Just a little rant

This forum is nothing more than reality, not a way to sway potential breeders one way or another. Things cost money and breeding cresties is no different.
11/26/07  02:00pm

 #1526937


S.
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   Message To: Acidraindrips   In reference to Message Id: 1526821


 Just a little rant

Yep and here goes anther 250.00 for breeding today. Had to redo my reptile room/corner because the way it was I was not going to have room for anything else (babies and others) next season. SO...here’s me getting 4 custom tanks from a tank manufacturer and a new shelf system. All and all the tanks were cheap considering there custom but I have to get 4 to get the discount. Then I’m gonna get 4 more in spring and a second shelf just don’t have the 600.00 to get it all now or I would.

I think this is a good post to link to peoples posts when they ask about breeding. So besides being bumped I am doing that.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. Thanks Guys!
11/26/07  04:01pm

 #1527856


BC Bloodlines
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   Message To: S.   In reference to Message Id: 1526937


 Just a little rant

This may be a foreign concept for some people but your time spent doing anything can be assigned a monitary value. No matter what you make at your job, if you think you deserve more or are lucky to be getting what you are, your time is valuable. So lets do a little math to see just how much you "volunteer" to your reptiles.

Based on 50+ reptiles including a breeding project including over 24 Rhacs

-I make 17.75 an hour
-My Girlfriend makes 15 an hour semi-full time
-We spend an average of 2hours a night each on general maintenance. This includes feeding, watering, spot cleaning, weighing etc.
-Thats a total of 14hours @ 17.75 = 248.50 per week / 994.00 per month
-Thats a total of 14hours @ 15.00 = 210.00 per week / 840.00 per month
-Once a month we do a full clean of every tank which takes about 10hours each person. The general daily and weekly cage maintenance is included in the above.
-Thats 177.50 for me and 150.00 for my Girlfriend
For a Grand Toatal of $2161.00 per month. Thats only slightly less than I make in a month with a full time job.

How many geckos would we need to sell to pay our wage? Better yet how many banks would loan us the money to start a business with those sort of numbers based on projected sales?

Money is just money but a passion is what makes life worth living. If reptiles and Herpetoculture is your passion then jump in and get wet. Only your wallet will regret it.
11/27/07  03:46pm

 #1527870


Comet3705
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   Message To: BC Bloodlines   In reference to Message Id: 1527856


 Just a little rant

Quote:

If reptiles and Herpetoculture is your passion then jump in and get wet. Only your wallet will regret it.



I love this phrase, It should be your Signature or soemthing.

But yes, I love reptiles and I want to go to U.G.A. for Herpotology and Business.

Wow, You have lot to take care of! They seem like quite a handful.
11/27/07  04:02pm

 #1527958


S.
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1527870


 Just a little rant

Ya thats a lot of Rhacs...me, it only takes about 1 hour a night..after Ive done 8hrs at the pet store doing the same stuff, some times I just want to sit and not do anything, but no, I’m a good mom, I have to get every one feed and cleaned. Then once a week I clean 2 or 3 tanks about 2 hours there. So I’m looking at 41 hours a month. That’s a full week of work for most people. I only have 9 rhacs and 5 other reptile and fish tanks. It adds up. That’s 500 hours a year...I’ll do a simple wage, @ $10.00 an hour that’s $5000.00 a year. I’d have to sell 50+ rhacs at $100 each for JUST covering my wage. Not including all of my costs. Anyway I love m babies and I could not go with out them but it is a love not a business.
11/27/07  05:23pm

 #1537813


S.
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   Message To: S.   In reference to Message Id: 1527958


 Just a little rant

just bumping this...=)
12/06/07  04:01pm

 #1537838


Houdini1
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   Message To: S.   In reference to Message Id: 1537813


 Just a little rant

Wouldn’t it be nice if we all could get paid a nice hefty hourly wage for everything we do with our reptiles? I know, keep on dreamin...

Its like the article they printed this summer on how much a stay at home mom is worth monetary wise. It was over $100,000 a year when they factor in all the jobs we do rolled all into one.

This is a really good post. I agree we should keep it around, and link to it.

A lot of people who only see $$$$ when breeding reptiles, are usually the ones who don’t make it. Its basically like a back yard breeder or puppy mill in some cases, don’t care about the breed, or making the breed better, only the $$$ that come out of poor quality animals.



12/06/07  04:21pm

 #1538718


BC Bloodlines
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   Message To: Houdini1   In reference to Message Id: 1537838


 Just a little rant

Absolutely. I would have to say that without steriotyping, virtually every person who gets into breeding to make a buck will surely fail and also ultimetly weaken the trade. Every sick, skinny and weak animal that arrives in a pet store or supplier from a "breeder", is from those people who do it for the money. I may be speaking in generalities but for the most part its true.



12/07/07  01:37pm


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