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 #1725168


Active42
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   Message To: Dislimbed   In reference to Message Id: 1725136


 New pics

Leopard geckos dont need basking spots, theya re nocturnal, so sleep allday when the sunis out. That is why they need a UTH to absorb belly heat while they sleep all day. Also, the soil is creating a very humid environment, which can cause the gecko to develop repsiratory issues.
05/04/08  07:00pm

 #1725198


Kayleighb Brunner
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   Message To: Dislimbed   In reference to Message Id: 1725136


 New pics

Agreed, don’t use a non solid substrate, use paper towel, newspaper, or repti carpet.
05/04/08  07:31pm

 #1725271


G.T.
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   Message To: Kayleighb Brunner   In reference to Message Id: 1725198


 New pics

Nice gecko, but listen to them^^ You need to get rid of any moist or loose substrate. It can cause a lot of unneeded and unwanted problems. Some books say to use it and some petstore people say it too, but you shouldn’t listen to them because it can harbor bacteria (not healthy for your leo), cause impaction (major problems and/or death), and causes respiratory infections due to the moisture it holds.
05/04/08  08:42pm

 #1725287


Dislimbed
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   Message To: Active42   In reference to Message Id: 1725168


 New pics

Its an infared bulb, so it gives surface warmth and ambient air.
Leos like to dig so im gonna keep the dirt(add a little sifted play sand to help hold burrows)
Impaction isnt a worry if your surface temps are good.
The light dries the upper part, thats why they go underground when they want moisture.
Bacteria is controlled because i clean right when i see it.


But thanks
05/04/08  08:57pm

 #1725301


Baldy34
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   Message To: Dislimbed   In reference to Message Id: 1725136


 New pics

they dont need a basking light but they sure enjoy it



05/04/08  09:09pm

 #1725305


Hacksaw
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   Message To: Dislimbed   In reference to Message Id: 1725287


 New pics

Quote:

Impaction isnt a worry if your surface temps are good.


Where did you hear that from? Impaction is impaction my friend. Please, take the advice of the people that are telling you to take her off the dirt/sand mix.



05/04/08  09:10pm

 #1725378


Dislimbed
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   Message To: Hacksaw   In reference to Message Id: 1725305


 New pics

heard it from the monitor forum
Heat aides in digestion, and if the animal is healthy, then it can pass a little dirt/sand.
Plus their hands are designed for digging, not to walk on hard surfaces.
05/04/08  09:56pm

 #1725386


Hacksaw
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   Message To: Dislimbed   In reference to Message Id: 1725378


 New pics

Quote:

heard it from the monitor forum


Monitor, not a Leopard Gecko.



05/04/08  10:03pm

 #1725438


Dislimbed
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   Message To: Hacksaw   In reference to Message Id: 1725386


 New pics

Yea but they were talking about how itst the same for leos and beardies(and other digging species)
05/04/08  10:58pm

 #1725522


AditiLuna
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   Message To: Dislimbed   In reference to Message Id: 1725438


 New pics

They are really wrong. I’m sure it is much less likely if the gecko is healthy and temps are good- but if you spend time on different forums you will see many healthy, perfectly well taken care of geckos on the verge of death from impaction. Then again, many geckos live full lives on sand. But, with the high rates of impaction- do you want to take the chance?
You can build tunnels out of clay so he can burrow around.
At least don’t feed him on the sand or dirt-thats usually when they would ingest it.
Were not trying to boss you around but i think we’ve just seen how bad impaction is- i know i have.
Just consider it, please :)



05/05/08  01:15am

 #1725861


Brien224
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   Message To: AditiLuna   In reference to Message Id: 1725522


 New pics

How about this, lets not get into a substrate debate, as that would be haking the thread Hacksaw. Also dirt is fine, impaction is only concerns in calci-sand, and other sands... as long a temps are good, it isn’t a worry...

To the OP... nice setup, bet it loves digging in the dirt...
05/05/08  01:22pm

 #1725953


Active42
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   Message To: Brien224   In reference to Message Id: 1725861


 New pics

I wasnt even mentioning impaction, but I was worried that the humidity was to high, as long as it is dry on top, then the humidity shouldnt be a problem.
05/05/08  03:30pm

 #1725972


G.T.
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   Message To: Brien224   In reference to Message Id: 1725861


 New pics

OK, I don’t know about you guys but I’m tired of substrate debates. We warned them and I’m just going to say I told you so when it happens, because the people who don’t take the advice are obviously not worried or don’t care that their gecko could die. And don’t come crying to us when you have an impacted or dead leo. We are here to help people’s leos. Take our advice. Why are you taking the risk? Um, leos aren’t moniters... if you didn’t notice, and Moniters are much larger and it would be much harder for them to fill their stomachs with dirt than it would for a little leo. Sorry for being blunt but I’m tired of people not taking our advice and I’m really tired of seeing poor impacted little leos.



05/05/08  03:43pm

 #1728247


Squeaky
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   Message To: G.T.   In reference to Message Id: 1725972


 New pics

sorry to tell you but DONT criticize people because they dont listen to your advice! i too use dirt and sand mixture and there is nothing wrong with it. they do not live on paper towel or repti carpet in the wild so leave it alone!!!! leopard geckos live longer in captivity in some cases and people have their own decisions on how they take care of their own animal and if you have a problem with it shove it because no one wants to hear it! im sick of people saying that dirt and coconut and other substrates like that are bad because of impaction. if the gecko is healthy and you have accessories like a heat bulb then the gecko can deal with a little dirt and can pass it on if needed. thats why they burrow for moisture if needed or go under ground. everything looks great though!

P.S------ GT..... the gecko looks to be in great shape and if you dont like it you can keep it to your self and if you say that dislimb is taking care of his gecko poorly than you must have problems because i personally know him and the gecko loves the home he is in. learn to respect other opinions and ideas!!!!!!!!!
05/07/08  03:58pm

 #1728268


Jpf18
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   Message To: Squeaky   In reference to Message Id: 1728247


 New pics

I hate the whole natural environment BS everyone spouts as great advice. First off they live on rocky flats and any sand they are around is very compact (ie not loose and eatable). Second they arent wild leos, they are captive born and bred so they don’t have the same experiences and instincts a natural leo would have. Also natural isnt always better, think about it. Naturally humans are supposed to sleep on the dirt and run around in the bush all day. I don’t know about you but I prefer carpet, beds, and A/C.
05/07/08  04:16pm

 #1728501


G.T.
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   Message To: Jpf18   In reference to Message Id: 1728268


 New pics

Hey, I’m just telling him he is risking his geckos life. Sorry for caring about the gecko and trying to correct false info. And I didn’t say his gecko wasn’t healthy. I said his leo could become sick from it. It’s his choice what he does, but when he doesn’t take the advice, and when/if his gecko gets sick, It’ll make me sad to see his gecko die... from something that could have been CHANGED and he was given advice to change. I’m not trying to make people mad or be antagonistsic about anything, but I’m tired of seeing people’s sick, suffering, and dying geckos that are on loose substrate. I pray and hope your geckos never die or get sick from the substrate.
05/07/08  07:22pm

 #1729918


Dislimbed
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   Message To: G.T.   In reference to Message Id: 1728501


 New pics

You hate the whole natural thing? Well i love it because my gecko enjoys having an environment where he can be be safe and do what leopard geckos do at the same time. The way their feet are designed are to walk on soft surfaces and able to make burrowws, not to walk on non-diggable hard surfaces like tile, carpet, and towels. Yeah they are c.b reptiles, but that dosnt mean they dont have natural insticts. And i dont think a gecko is gonna care about having a bed or an a/c becuase mine basks alot, like it would in the wild.
Im not risking my geckos life by putting it on its natural substrate, that happens becuase people give them low basking spots, someone said to have it at 95? Thats low IMO. Thats why it cant digest the little amounts of substrate it gets from hunting. Your not correcting false info at all. Its not gonna becme sick from eating a little dirt. So your not gonna see it die fromsomething that could have been changed(when not needing to be changed) because im sure it will die of old age. Other peoples geckos that are dying from loose substrate impactions are because they are listining and giving them too low of a surface basking temp, and making them not able too pass it.

Im not trying to be mean or anything, just giving my opinion.
05/08/08  10:57pm

 #1729941


AditiLuna
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   Message To: Dislimbed   In reference to Message Id: 1729918


 New pics

I don’t wanna get into the argument - I really respect people’s different opinions on this - but it’s hard seeing so many leos impacted and then hearing someone say that it’s only beacause of bad husbandry.

it’s not always about basking temp, and many argue that above 95 is too high - i don’t have enough experience with that yet to have a strong opinion - BUT - also, if there is no calcium dish they will eat the sand voluntarily to get calcium (particularly with calci sand), but I doubt they will do that with dirt, and it seems like a better option then sand - except for the humidity thing, but i’m sure thats being monitored.
I like natural too, but in nature, impaction happens, leos die and no one is there to care and something gets dinner so it’s not a problem. If you want to reduce the risk, you can go one better than nature.

I have seen impaction happen to many leos who have good temps and a calci dish so it’s always possible. I have also seen leos live long healthy lives on sand with no calci dish. It’s just about if you’re willing to take the risk.

Since this has sparked such a heated debate, maybe you should do an experiment - like make half the tank paper towel and see where the leo hangs out? I want some scientific studies done on this stuff.

But don’t get your panties in a bundle folks, everyone here is trying to help :)
05/08/08  11:33pm

 #1730801


Jpf18
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   Message To: AditiLuna   In reference to Message Id: 1729941


 New pics

You’re pretty thick skulled there buddy. My only problem with the natural arguement is that it isn’t true they live in deserts as all you kids imagine. They live in ROCKY DESERTS, and dont live on loose sand AT ALL. Any sand they come in contact with is extremely compact. They don’t burrow much (or need to). They like to stay underground during the day so temps too high aren’t good for them.

You can’t argue captive bred geckos are the same as wild leos due to natural selection and the differences selective breeding plays on that.

My a/c, carpet ANALOGY wasn’t meant to be taken literally (you really are dense, or at least are just bad at sarcasm). I meant that even if a leos natural environment could be duplicated perfectly (including all the risks nature imposes upon its creatures) How could tweaking their environment for their safety/comfort be a bad thing? IE. I could thrive living outside in the summer heat all day like I was intended too, but I’d be happier and healthier if I had my bottled water and a/c.

Im not saying the soil or so called "natural" set ups will kill them. I’m just saying it is incorrect to base your leos health on child hood fantasies of all deserts being huges masses of playground sand blowing in the wind with a few cacti here or there. While it wont necessarily kill them 50% or even 10% of the time, the fact is that impaction is a serious issue that CAN occur with particulate substrates. The risk is 0% with tile.
05/09/08  11:40pm

 #1730816


Dislimbed
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   Message To: Jpf18   In reference to Message Id: 1730801


 New pics

I know they live on compacted stuff, thats why you do the same with the SAND MIXED WITH DIRT. Compress it. How is this gonna give them an impaction? It wont. No impaction risks, and still allows for burrowing wich they do for alot of reasons. I never had fantasies of them they living in deserts full of playsand, so I dont know where you got that from. My leo acts as i would imagine a wild one would. Burrows, basks, hunts. does what geckos do. I dont think tweaking it to be safe is a bad thing, but your not really making them live in a solid substrate safer, and your taking away something that they like to use and the dirt/sand MIX is just as safe in my opinion as long as the rest of their care is right.
05/10/08  12:21am

 #1730868


Leojohn
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   Message To: Dislimbed   In reference to Message Id: 1725136


 New pics

very nice leo very sexy



05/10/08  03:11am

 #1731044


Uchiha_obito10
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   Message To: Leojohn   In reference to Message Id: 1730868


 New pics

LOL:}
That was a good ending, leojohn!
This post is getting more annoying by the second. I second the motion of the importance of caution, with sand i.e. loose substrates. If the person chooses to have their leos on that kind of substate, let them be.
Its okay to mention," Hey so-and-so, you should think about getting your leo on some tile or paper towl."
Its not okay to go and blow up on them and give them a huge lecture. This person wanted to show some pictures, not start a HUGE debate. Come on, don’t hijack a thread. Your a very knowledgeable person hacksaw, ill give you that. But its not nice and makes the person non-receptive if you jump on them. I’m not jumping on you either. So everyone, love one another. Don’t get mad, get glad! That your trying to help someone!



05/10/08  11:28am

 #1731132


Yeroc62
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   Message To: Dislimbed   In reference to Message Id: 1725287


 New pics

Nice looking gecko...but there are SO many things wrong with your husbandry that I’m not even going to comment any further.
05/10/08  02:01pm

 #1731134


Yeroc62
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   Message To: G.T.   In reference to Message Id: 1725972


 New pics

Quote:

We warned them and I’m just going to say I told you so when it happens, because the people who don’t take the advice are obviously not worried or don’t care that their gecko could die.



Amen GT...and I’ll be right there with you saying it
05/10/08  02:04pm

 #1731212


Squeaky
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   Message To: Yeroc62   In reference to Message Id: 1731132


 New pics

Quote:

Nice looking gecko...but there are SO many things wrong with your husbandry that I’m not even going to comment any further.



hey yeroc62.... go shove it up your butt sniff!!!!! your the only one that was that rude to dislimb and i dont think its right for you to be that way. so instead of giving your opinion anymore to this thread get off of it and dont reply here anymore because no one wants to hear your opinion after that! you are a very inconsiderate person... BUT THATS IN MY OPINION!!!!! " IM NOT EVEN GOING TO COMMENT ANY FURTHER"....... HAHA LMAO
05/10/08  04:23pm

 #1731235


Yeroc62
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   Message To: Squeaky   In reference to Message Id: 1731212


 New pics

Well...if you poll the general consensus (and by that I mean member who have been around a while and KNOW what they’re talking about) you will find that I know more about leos than most of the people on here. And I am not rude...at all. So...take your little poll, and don’t think your little comments are going to scare me away and make me cry. I’m here to stay....deal with it sweetheart


Quote:

hey yeroc62.... go shove it up your butt sniff!!!!!



Oh, and by the way...YOUR rudeness has been reported. Have a nice day. I’m done with all of you on the leo forums.
05/10/08  04:55pm

 #1731331


Active42
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   Message To: Yeroc62   In reference to Message Id: 1731235


 New pics

I gurantee 100% more people want Yeroc than they want you. Who the F*** are you anyway, your prob. just some nooby kid who doesnt no and have never bee here before..HHAHA up yours
05/10/08  07:31pm

 #1731362


Stitchex
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   Message To: Active42   In reference to Message Id: 1731331


 New pics

Quote:

Its an infared bulb, so it gives surface warmth and ambient air.
Leos like to dig so im gonna keep the dirt(add a little sifted play sand to help hold burrows)
Impaction isnt a worry if your surface temps are good.
The light dries the upper part, thats why they go underground when they want moisture.
Bacteria is controlled because i clean right when i see it.


Hmm... they want moisture, huh? I have a better decision that isn’t as life threatening as your conclusion. It’s called a moist hide, and you can use paper towel, moist paper towel, spaghum moss, whatever, just please change your substrate. Squeaky..... Yeroc happens to be a very important member of Repticzone, while I’ve never seen you around. If you ask anyone that’s been on for a while, then you’ll realize your mistake. I hope to never see you again, because I am in the same mindset as Active right now. To the Original Poster, paper towel, reptile carpet, and tile are healthy substitutes to the expensive, dirty soil you are using. Also, those hides you have can fall and kill your Leo as she is burrowing. Have a good day!



~Stitchex~
05/10/08  08:27pm

 #1731365


Stitchex
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   Message To: Stitchex   In reference to Message Id: 1731362


 New pics

I would consider your Leo dead if your cage doesn’t get renovated, sorry about not mentioning that already . I just noticed a huge piece of rock sticking out of the soil, that could easily fall if your Leo tried to climb on it. What a shame to clean up a mess like that..



~Stitchex~
05/10/08  08:30pm
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