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 #1328036


Comet3705
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 BOOYAH!

ok, so i found some DHL’s available nearby[too far for driving =[ ] for about 30-40 dollars.[shipped] is this a fair deal, and alsocan they eat crickets?
do theh bite hard?


PS>
im not getting omne yet but i wanted to know these thigns forst
06/21/07  05:41pm

 #1328726


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1328036


 BOOYAH!

I wouldn’t pay that much for a DHL that’s 99% likely to be wild caught, without looking at it first. But thats just me. There are too many people who have bought them that way that end up getting something sick and get stuck out without a guarantee. Many of the people selling them aren’t that familiar with them either.

DHLs don’t usually bite people, though they may threaten if stressed. They have very little mouths anyway.

As to the question about diet, that’s covered in the caresheet I have here. But in short, crickets are not an acceptable replacement food. They eat ants for the most part in the wild, and if you want one that is active and healthy, you can’t get around supplying ants as a majority of their diet- bottom line. That’s my experience after 5 years and 3 different species of Horned Lizards. I tried a cricket heavy diet the first couple years and it just doesn’t work well for any species other than P. hernandesi or P. douglasii.



06/22/07  12:41am

 #1329350


Comet3705
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1328726


 BOOYAH!

well the yare wild caught, but i have a lot of wild caught reptiles[not saying its the same]

but if im buying them it will be from Mark M. Lucas. adn ill ask what they are eating.
06/22/07  02:38pm

 #1329625


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1329350


 BOOYAH!

OK, well having "a lot" of wild caught reptiles is not good to begin with. A wild caught HL is more likely to take a bad turn than many other reptiles. Many snakes, turtles, and other lizards might adapt much easier than the average HL; so your knowledge must be honed and you need to have it’s natural prey right off to lessen stress and prevent illness. There is a very good reason why HLs are not widely kept after so many years...why not very many people at all have them...AND that’s because they usually don’t live long in inexperienced hands. Horny Toads have been around in the American folklore and revered for as long as the west has been won. In times since, people have taken on many different kind of pets, and many of our grandparents and parents in years past in these parts have stories of how they used to catch and many times keep "Horny Toads" as pets. But guess what? It didn’t work out and they didn’t live long. If they were easy, then Mark Lucas would be captive breeding to offer a better adapted and tempered animal, instead of selling wild caught.

Mark Lucas does not quarantine nor treat his wild caught animals either, he gives many verbose excuses as to why he doesn’t, but it basically can all be reduced down to cost. He’s trying to make the most he can, and he doesn’t spend money separating and treating incoming animals for anything. In my opinion, he sounds like he’s of the school of "quantity" rather than "quality".

You can ask him what he’s feeding them if you like, but that has nothing to do with what they "should" eat, and what is thier natural prey. Based on Mark Lucas’ business practices with wild caught animals, it’s most likely he is feeding them what is easy to feed them, rather than what is right, and THAT is what is wrong with most new HL keepers to start with.

Selling a bunch of wild caught Horned Lizards and turning them over quickly can make a person look like they know more than they do. You don’t have to be good at keeping Horned Lizards, nor know really what you are talking about when they are in and out your revolving pet trade door so quickly. I can give a HL to almost anybody, and have them keep it alive for a few weeks...probably long enough to get it sold. It is the person that has kept that species for a number of YEARS that you should listen to. The information is there for you to read in the care sheet, you can go to places like my link under the profile, or phrynosoma.org, hornedlizards.org, or kingsnake’s HL forum to know more. I don’t know if you meant to sound dismissive in your last message, but, now you have heard from an experienced keeper, and can listen or not.



06/22/07  05:53pm

 #1329636


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1329625


 BOOYAH!

A platyrhinos is most likely to adapt well than other HL species, but I would advise you to get up to date pictures of the HL and post them for an assessment. A lot can be told about their condition based upon good photos.



06/22/07  05:57pm

 #1329805


Comet3705
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1329636


 BOOYAH!

ok. well i dont think im gonna get one probablt til august or so. but im not gonna buy from Mark M Lucus because you convinced. but thanks for all your help and trust me ill research a LOT beforei get one.

ANK YOU!
06/22/07  07:38pm

 #1330174


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1329805


 BOOYAH!

I’m glad your dedicated to research beforehand. it’s really necessary with these lizards. A couple months is plenty of time to get in several hours looking into their needs, especially if you have any previous lizard experience at all. That research, along with making sure to offer a majority of ants in their diet, and UVB lighting, will get you off on the right foot. The resources I gave you will help with that, and you should also spend some time reading the posts about problems encountered by others. There is a lot of good info in some of those.
Almost all platyrhinos you are going to come across will be wild caught, so in that case finding someone who seems to know a little more than the average reptile dealer about them, and someone who keeps them for observation for a time, as well as treating them for parasites if needed, will be the key to finding the one with the best chances when you get it. If I was personally in the market to buy one, I would for one make sure to find a seller who had been feeding them ants from the start.
Nematode parasites are also common in harvester ants, and are many times passed to the lizard. For that reason all wild caught HLs need to be treated with fenbendazole @ 50-100mg/kg body wieght, repeated at 2 weeks. The stresses soon after capture can cause an explosion in parasite proliferation and reduced immune function. This is one possible reason why the HLs die so soon after being placed in captivity. Other insects also carry parasites, but as the harvester ant is their natural prey and their immune function best adapted to deal with these parasites over others, the ants should continue to be offered. I dose my lizards against parasites only once to twice a year and I don’t have problems.



06/22/07  11:30pm

 #1330183


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1329805


 BOOYAH!

I’m glad your dedicated to research beforehand. it’s really necessary with these lizards. A couple months is plenty of time to get in several hours looking into their needs, especially if you have any previous lizard experience at all. That research, along with making sure to offer a majority of ants in their diet, and UVB lighting, will get you off on the right foot. The resources I gave you will help with that, and you should also spend some time reading the posts about problems encountered by others. There is a lot of good info in some of those.
Almost all platyrhinos you are going to come across will be wild caught, so in that case finding someone who seems to know a little more than the average reptile dealer about them, and someone who keeps them for observation for a time, as well as treating them for parasites if needed, will be the key to finding the one with the best chances when you get it. If I was personally in the market to buy one, I would for one make sure to find a seller who had been feeding them ants from the start.
Nematode parasites are also common in harvester ants, and are many times passed to the lizard. For that reason all wild caught HLs need to be treated with fenbendazole @ 50-100mg/kg body wieght, repeated at 2 weeks. The stresses soon after capture can cause an explosion in parasite proliferation and reduced immune function. This is one possible reason why the HLs die so soon after being placed in captivity. Other insects also carry parasites, but as the harvester ant is their natural prey and their immune function best adapted to deal with these parasites over others, the ants should continue to be offered. I dose my lizards against parasites only once to twice a year and I don’t have problems.



06/22/07  11:31pm

 #1330185


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1329805


 BOOYAH!

I’m glad your dedicated to research beforehand. it’s really necessary with these lizards. A couple months is plenty of time to get in several hours looking into their needs, especially if you have any previous lizard experience at all. That research, along with making sure to offer a majority of ants in their diet, and UVB lighting, will get you off on the right foot. The resources I gave you will help with that, and you should also spend some time reading the posts about problems encountered by others. There is a lot of good info in some of those.
Almost all platyrhinos you are going to come across will be wild caught, so in that case finding someone who seems to know a little more than the average reptile dealer about them, and someone who keeps them for observation for a time, as well as treating them for parasites if needed, will be the key to finding the one with the best chances when you get it. If I was personally in the market to buy one, I would for one make sure to find a seller who had been feeding them ants from the start.
Nematode parasites are also common in harvester ants, and are many times passed to the lizard. For that reason all wild caught HLs need to be treated with fenbendazole @ 50-100mg/kg body wieght, repeated at 2 weeks. The stresses soon after capture can cause an explosion in parasite proliferation and reduced immune function. This is one possible reason why the HLs die so soon after being placed in captivity. Other insects also carry parasites, but as the harvester ant is their natural prey and their immune function best adapted to deal with these parasites over others, the ants should continue to be offered. I dose my lizards against parasites only once to twice a year and I don’t have problems.



06/22/07  11:35pm

 #1330187


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1329805


 BOOYAH!

I’m glad your dedicated to research beforehand. it’s really necessary with these lizards. A couple months is plenty of time to get in several hours looking into their needs, especially if you have any previous lizard experience at all. That research, along with making sure to offer a majority of ants in their diet, and UVB lighting, will get you off on the right foot. The resources I gave you will help with that, and you should also spend some time reading the posts about problems encountered by others. There is a lot of good info in some of those.
Almost all platyrhinos you are going to come across will be wild caught, so in that case finding someone who seems to know a little more than the average reptile dealer about them, and someone who keeps them for observation for a time, as well as treating them for parasites if needed, will be the key to finding the one with the best chances when you get it. If I was personally in the market to buy one, I would for one make sure to find a seller who had been feeding them ants from the start.
Nematode parasites are also common in harvester ants, and are many times passed to the lizard. For that reason all wild caught HLs need to be treated with fenbendazole @ 50-100mg/kg body wieght, repeated at 2 weeks. The stresses soon after capture can cause an explosion in parasite proliferation and reduced immune function. This is one possible reason why the HLs die so soon after being placed in captivity. Other insects also carry parasites, but as the harvester ant is their natural prey and their immune function best adapted to deal with these parasites over others, the ants should continue to be offered. I dose my lizards against parasites only once to twice a year and I don’t have problems.



06/22/07  11:35pm

 #1330194


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1329805


 BOOYAH!

I’m glad your dedicated to research beforehand. it’s really necessary with these lizards. A couple months is plenty of time to get in several hours looking into their needs, especially if you have any previous lizard experience at all. That research, along with making sure to offer a majority of ants in their diet, and UVB lighting, will get you off on the right foot. The resources I gave you will help with that, and you should also spend some time reading the posts about problems encountered by others. There is a lot of good info in some of those.
Almost all platyrhinos you are going to come across will be wild caught, so in that case finding someone who seems to know a little more than the average reptile dealer about them, and someone who keeps them for observation for a time, as well as treating them for parasites if needed, will be the key to finding the one with the best chances when you get it. If I was personally in the market to buy one, I would for one make sure to find a seller who had been feeding them ants from the start.
Nematode parasites are also common in harvester ants, and are many times passed to the lizard. For that reason all wild caught HLs need to be treated with fenbendazole @ 50-100mg/kg body wieght, repeated at 2 weeks. The stresses soon after capture can cause an explosion in parasite proliferation and reduced immune function. This is one possible reason why the HLs die so soon after being placed in captivity. Other insects also carry parasites, but as the harvester ant is their natural prey and their immune function best adapted to deal with these parasites over others, the ants should continue to be offered. I dose my lizards against parasites only once to twice a year and I don’t have problems.



06/22/07  11:36pm

 #1330297


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1329805


 BOOYAH!

I’m glad your dedicated to research beforehand. it’s really necessary with these lizards. A couple months is plenty of time to get in several hours looking into their needs, especially if you have any previous lizard experience at all. That research, along with making sure to offer a majority of ants in their diet, and UVB lighting, will get you off on the right foot. The resources I gave you will help with that, and you should also spend some time reading the posts about problems encountered by others. There is a lot of good info in some of those.
Almost all platyrhinos you are going to come across will be wild caught, so in that case finding someone who seems to know a little more than the average reptile dealer about them, and someone who keeps them for observation for a time, as well as treating them for parasites if needed, will be the key to finding the one with the best chances when you get it. If I was personally in the market to buy one, I would for one make sure to find a seller who had been feeding them ants from the start.
Nematode parasites are also common in harvester ants, and are many times passed to the lizard. For that reason all wild caught HLs need to be treated with fenbendazole @ 50-100mg/kg body wieght, repeated at 2 weeks. The stresses soon after capture can cause an explosion in parasite proliferation and reduced immune function. This is one possible reason why the HLs die so soon after being placed in captivity. Other insects also carry parasites, but as the harvester ant is their natural prey and their immune function best adapted to deal with these parasites over others, the ants should continue to be offered. I dose my lizards against parasites only once to twice a year and I don’t have problems.



06/23/07  12:31am

 #1330354


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1330194


 BOOYAH!

damn board. Doesn’t let you know the message has been already sent sometimes.



06/23/07  01:45am

 #1330731


Comet3705
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1330354


 BOOYAH!

oki, weelll my store[ the one i work at] the boss ALWAYS treats animals that have been wild caught[ in tther words clears them of parasites wit this liquidy stuff] lol. But yah. where d oyou get your ants from and how many a week/day should i feed one adult or baby.
06/23/07  02:23pm

 #1330793


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1330731


 BOOYAH!

It’s good that your employer treats for parasites. You should find out if he’s using fenbendazole ( Panacur ) or not. Ivermectin is also sometimes used, but it is deadly in some herps therefore I avoid it.

I can easily get my own ants because I live in NW Texas where both Horned Lizards and harvester ants are native. There are only a few sources to get them from; namely antsalive, uncle miltons, not sure if phrynosoma.org is selling them right now...or me. I sell them too, and I have an ad in the classified section here. I try to stay well below the others on cost, averaging about $5 cheaper per 1000 right now.

Did you read the care sheet? Guidelines for how many to feed is included under the diet section. it just depends on the species and age/size.



06/23/07  03:23pm

 #1330890


Comet3705
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1330793


 BOOYAH!

ALRIght cool!

but one more question. wha tdo you keep your ants in? cause i dont want them to escape and kill my crested and flying gecko =/
06/23/07  05:10pm

 #1331131


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1330890


 BOOYAH!

Ants are shipped in a prescription pill bottle vented with air holes. I recommend you just put this bottle or similar container in the fridge until ready to use. Under refrigeration harvester ants will enter a semi-dormant state and last longer. When ready to use just drop a few in at a time until you can judge how fast your lizard will eat them. As they begin to warm up and stir, your HL will see them and come to dine on them.
Harvester ants are not particularly good climbers on smooth glass. I never have problems with them climbing out of a tank. The lizards usually eat them well before that anyway.



06/23/07  10:00pm

 #1331155


Comet3705
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1331131


 BOOYAH!

ok thats cool! now my refirgerator is normally at 37 degress[the milk, chesse, and butter side] lol, is this ok for them or wil lthe ydie. and about how many should i order for a weeks use?
06/23/07  10:32pm

 #1331172


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1331155


 BOOYAH!

I find mid to low 40s is probably better, but at 37 they should still last a bit until used. You could keep them in the door or something in that case where it may be a bit warmer. Humidity is also a factor, sometimes the fridge may dry them out a little or cause the container to stay too humid over extended periods, but I usually see that problem because I keep sometimes 10s of thousands of ants at a time for long periods.
I run through almost 1000 ants or more a week with my Regals ( each ). Most adults will eat 700-800 a week on average. You may need 50 a day, you may need 100 or a bit more a day, it just depends on the species and it’s age.
I have a regular customer with 2 platyrhinos and she needs a steady 1000 a week.



06/23/07  10:53pm

 #1331671


Comet3705
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1331172


 BOOYAH!

ok. so if i did buy from you, would there be way i didnt have to "BUY " them every week, i just like send you the money. and then tht last for like 3 weeks, but you send them a wee kat the time. also do you take credit cards =]?
06/24/07  11:11am

 #1332120


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1331671


 BOOYAH!

Sorry, not sure if I understood that but let me try:
You could purchase several thousand at a time to last a few weeks or maybe a month ( some people do ), or you could pre-pay if that is what you wanted and I could send them out when you tell me you need them.
The payment info is in the classified ad, but I take paypal and credit/debit cards through paypal.



06/24/07  05:28pm

 #1332155


Comet3705
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1332120


 BOOYAH!

yah pretty much pre-pay. oww and how long does it take to be here. plus do i have to signoff for delivery, and is that inluding shipping?=/
06/24/07  06:13pm

 #1332469


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1332155


 BOOYAH!

I can’t really answer everything here without turning the thread into an ad. The instructions and costs are in the ad, but if you have more questions about that in particular, you can email me. It’s priority mail which is 2-3 day. You don’t have to sign anything unless I need confirmation. It may sound like a lot for ants, but if you can’t swing it, don’t consider getting a Horned Lizard and make it suffer an improper diet. That’s why these guys are rare amongst herp keepers. They have special needs.



06/24/07  09:05pm

 #1332606


Comet3705
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1332469


 BOOYAH!

how long will ants last[ say i dont feed them, not that i would] but how long are they able to live in the frigerator
06/24/07  10:34pm

 #1332812


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1332606


 BOOYAH!

Usually about a month or so. Under ideal temps and humidity they may last longer. They don’t require feeding as they will be dormant, but attention to ensure they don’t get too dry or too damp is important.



06/25/07  12:52am

 #1332848


Comet3705
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1332812


 BOOYAH!

ok thank you for all your help ^_^. im gonna calla my boss about them, and if he doesnt get them in, then i guess ill just have the knowledge for the futur and go to a reptile show instaed[and get another animal,] but if he does ill reasearch for a while.
06/25/07  01:27am

 #1334519


Comet3705
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1332848


 BOOYAH!

Phrosama[sorry cant spell.lol] i had to put the DHL off the list, see iwent to petsmart yesterday, and they had baby leo in a tank with two adults one, so i rescued it. we’ve named her pebbles, and if you want to see her just go to the Leo Forum and the topic is called "Rescued" But thank you for all your help ^_^
06/26/07  10:11am

 #1334822


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1334519


 BOOYAH!

Glad to hear it. Leopards are pretty hardy. My wife has had hers for 10 years.



06/26/07  02:44pm

 #1334826


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Comet3705   In reference to Message Id: 1334519


 BOOYAH!

Glad to hear it. Leopards are pretty hardy. My wife has had hers for 10 years.



06/26/07  02:44pm


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