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 #1369570


Babyhonytoad
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 Baby Short Horned Toads just born Help

We were on vacation in Taos, NM where my son brought home a horned toad for a pet. It then had 12 live babies when we got home. We thought a horned toad would be easy to take care of but after checking on the internet it appears they are quite difficult. They appears to be a short Horned Lizard. We found her at arount 7000 elevation

We would like to return them all home but we are in Dallas texas and they are from Taos,

First, Are there any place in Texas close to Dallas we can release them where they can live?
Second, How can we keep them alive until we can release them?

The babies are tiny...do they eat havestor ants as well? What should we feed the babies?
Any help you all can give would be appreciated. We would like to keep them alive until we can release them.

THanks!



07/22/07  02:05pm

 #1369766


Cable_Hogue
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   Message To: Babyhonytoad   In reference to Message Id: 1369570


 Baby Short Horned Toads just born Help

Get them a lot of pinhead crickets (not the "smal" crickets that Petsmart sells). Pinheads are basically new born crickets and are very tiny. Fruit flies are also good. They won’t do well on harvester ants, if they will eat them at all. If you can find someone to take them back to their native home that would be your best bet.
07/22/07  05:16pm

 #1369925


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Cable_Hogue   In reference to Message Id: 1369766


 Baby Short Horned Toads just born Help

These guys probably aren’t going to do well without some experienced care. I am in Wichita Falls. I co-founded Wichita Falls Reptile Rescue. I am going to be in Ft. Worth this weekend for the Horned Lizard Conservation Society meeting. I can take them to care for until they can be released, or placed with someone capable. Bear in mind though, that if they are released, it must be done in the same place they were found ideally. They certainly cannot be released anywhere in this region of Texas. They will not survive. Also keep in mind that this species of Horned Lizard is protected in Texas ( and NM I believe ) by law, and someone may think you have gotten it from Texas. Of any Horned Lizard you could have captured from NM, as far as surviving in captivity, this is the worst.

For some basics you can view my caresheet, but some things are not going to apply because these HLs are accustomed to high elevation, and humidity. As Cable said only pinhead crickets or flightless fruitflies are going to be suitable. The harvester ants here are far too large for these babies anyway. You may need to go to a smaller more reptile specialized pet store in DFW to find pinheads. Go in and ask that they specifically hand pick only the smallest of crickets. Do not dust them with any supplements for these babies right now. Also make sure you get some bottled/filtered water for drinking, and make sure it is kept room temp. Keep them on some paper towels for now.

http://freewebs(dotcom)/wichitafallsreptilerescue



07/22/07  07:21pm

 #1370596


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1369925


 Baby Short Horned Toads just born Help

I’ll be in DFW area between 27-29th. If need be I can go sooner. I don’t know if the big name researchers in Texas like Wendy Hodges will be at the meeting, but there is bound to be someone there who can help. If I can’t find someone who can get them back to the same location in Taos, then there are other alternatives. There are knowledgeable keepers, or Texas Wild might be an option, if they can set up for them in another habitat. They just need someone familiar with Horned Lizards or the chances are high they will die.



07/23/07  07:45am

 #1371707


Babyhonytoad
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1370596


 Baby Short Horned Toads just born Help

Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3, if you could take the horned toad and the babies and that would be great. Where is this convention at? We can stop by there and give them to you.

The mother were found in Taos very close to the Rio Grand gorge bridge. If you know someone who can bring them back there that would be good.

In the interim your care sheet was very good. We got fruit flies at Petco and the babies are eating them. I don’t have a UVB bulb. All I have is an incandecent light. I currently have a 100watt bulb in it and placed it over their tank. I also placed the tank by the window so it will get some sunlight. Will that help?

Should I mist the babies 2-3 times a week as well or more frequently. I put play sand in the tank per your care sheet and the babies like to burrow into into it. If they are burried how will I mist them?

Thanks for taking them let us know where we can meet up.



07/23/07  10:32pm

 #1371904


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Babyhonytoad   In reference to Message Id: 1371707


 Baby Short Horned Toads just born Help

Was the mother found within about 1/4 mile of that bridge? It needs to be as close as possible to where she was found, as most reptiles have home ranges and know their own territory and it’s resources. If I can find any members at the convention from that area of NM, then getting them back to their natural habitat is my first choice. If I can’t find someone right off, then I’ll work at it, or get them setup in a nice habitat either with me, a well known researcher, or maybe someplace like the Texas Wild exhibit. We were hoping to go herping in NM before fall, but I’m not sure if we will yet. If it looks like we can’t get them back there, then worst case they’ll be taken care of here while the babies grow a bit.

The convention unofficially starts Fri. with a tour of the Ft. Worth zoo- Texas Horned Lizard captive breeding program at the Texas Wild exhibit. This will be from 1-5pm on Friday, but I’m not sure yet what hour we will get there. The official meeting and such starts on Saturday on TCU campus at the Dee Kelly Alumni Center and Mary Couts Burnett Library. There is going to be some presentations I wanted to hear, and people to talk to, but a lot of it is going to be just luncheon and business meetings within the organization. I don’t care to stay for all of it on Sat., so I’m up in the air about that day.

It might be best to just meet up at the zoo on Fri. if we can. Can you make a Fri.? We can work something else out if that’s not a good day. I’m just not clear yet on the time of day either Fri. or Sat. as if we attend both days, we’ll be driving down each day from Wichita Falls. I’ll give my cell number before we come down.

On the interim care: Keep in mind not everything in that care sheet goes for these short horns. Most people don’t have them, so I didn’t cover them.

No UVB right now is fine. It won’t harm them to be without it for about a week. They are growing babies though, and a few minutes of sunlight would be good. They will get a little bit through the glass to get them by for now, but, if you have them near a window you need to make sure that they don’t get too hot. Baby Horned Lizards can get too hot very quickly in an aquarium, and these hernandesi species are used to a bit colder climate due to the elevation.

You can take them for about 10 minutes out into some partial shade during the day. Don’t use an aquarium though, use something with low sides that will allow plenty of air circulation where you can watch them. And don’t put them in direct sunlight without offering shade too.

You may want to keep the mother and babies seperate if the mother is walking over them and may hurt them.

Put a thermometer in with them, and keep them at around the low-mid 80sF. The basking temps. in my care sheet were meant for low elevation desert floor dwelling species.

You may keep the mother on the sand, but for now paper towels would be safer for neonates. They are young and may ingest too much sand with their food, causing an impaction. You could put them in a plastic tub or large tupperware with lid for now, lined with paper towels. You can lightly mist down the paper towels for humidity, and add a small dish of drinking water. Mist the babies once a day or as needed if they are thirsty. This species needs more humidity, water, and lower temps. than other species. If you want to give them something to hide under, you can throw in a bunch of crumpled strips of paper towel.

Fruitflies are great, and they can have plenty of those. They can run through a lot of those fast though, and they get expensive. The fruitfly containers were really meant to breed them in over time and produce many more fruitflies, but unfortunately there is little time for that. If you use any crickets, make sure they are no more than 1/2 the length of the head of the baby, and half the width of the baby’s head to avoid complications. It’s almost impossible to get very many that small at Petco though, unless they are carefully hand picked out. They carry baby reptiles that need pinhead crickets, but Petco doesn’t even stock them for their own animals, and animals their own care sheets say that need pinheads! They’re so jacked up over there.



07/24/07  12:08am

 #1371911


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Babyhonytoad   In reference to Message Id: 1371707


 Baby Short Horned Toads just born Help

Was the mother found within about 1/4 mile of that bridge? It needs to be as close as possible to where she was found, as most reptiles have home ranges and know their own territory and it’s resources. If I can find any members at the convention from that area of NM, then getting them back to their natural habitat is my first choice. If I can’t find someone right off, then I’ll work at it, or get them setup in a nice habitat either with me, a well known researcher, or maybe someplace like the Texas Wild exhibit. We were hoping to go herping in NM before fall, but I’m not sure if we will yet. If it looks like we can’t get them back there, then worst case they’ll be taken care of here while the babies grow a bit.

The convention unofficially starts Fri. with a tour of the Ft. Worth zoo- Texas Horned Lizard captive breeding program at the Texas Wild exhibit. This will be from 1-5pm on Friday, but I’m not sure yet what hour we will get there. The official meeting and such starts on Saturday on TCU campus at the Dee Kelly Alumni Center and Mary Couts Burnett Library. There is going to be some presentations I wanted to hear, and people to talk to, but a lot of it is going to be just luncheon and business meetings within the organization. I don’t care to stay for all of it on Sat., so I’m up in the air about that day.

It might be best to just meet up at the zoo on Fri. if we can. Can you make a Fri.? We can work something else out if that’s not a good day. I’m just not clear yet on the time of day either Fri. or Sat. as if we attend both days, we’ll be driving down each day from Wichita Falls. I’ll give my cell number before we come down.

On the interim care: Keep in mind not everything in that care sheet goes for these short horns. Most people don’t have them, so I didn’t cover them.

No UVB right now is fine. It won’t harm them to be without it for about a week. They are growing babies though, and a few minutes of sunlight would be good. They will get a little bit through the glass to get them by for now, but, if you have them near a window you need to make sure that they don’t get too hot. Baby Horned Lizards can get too hot very quickly in an aquarium, and these hernandesi species are used to a bit colder climate due to the elevation.

You can take them for about 10 minutes out into some partial shade during the day. Don’t use an aquarium though, use something with low sides that will allow plenty of air circulation where you can watch them. And don’t put them in direct sunlight without offering shade too.

You may want to keep the mother and babies seperate if the mother is walking over them and may hurt them.

Put a thermometer in with them, and keep them at around the low-mid 80sF. The basking temps. in my care sheet were meant for low elevation desert floor dwelling species.

You may keep the mother on the sand, but for now paper towels would be safer for neonates. They are young and may ingest too much sand with their food, causing an impaction. You could put them in a plastic tub or large tupperware with lid for now, lined with paper towels. You can lightly mist down the paper towels for humidity, and add a small dish of drinking water. Mist the babies once a day or as needed if they are thirsty. This species needs more humidity, water, and lower temps. than other species. If you want to give them something to hide under, you can throw in a bunch of crumpled strips of paper towel.

Fruitflies are great, and they can have plenty of those. They can run through a lot of those fast though, and they get expensive. The fruitfly containers were really meant to breed them in over time and produce many more fruitflies, but unfortunately there is little time for that. If you use any crickets, make sure they are no more than 1/2 the length of the head of the baby, and half the width of the baby’s head to avoid complications. It’s almost impossible to get very many that small at Petco though, unless they are carefully hand picked out. They carry baby reptiles that need pinhead crickets, but Petco doesn’t even stock them for their own animals, and animals their own care sheets say that need pinheads! They’re so jacked up over there.



07/24/07  12:09am

 #1371914


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Babyhonytoad   In reference to Message Id: 1371707


 Baby Short Horned Toads just born Help

Was the mother found within about 1/4 mile of that bridge? It needs to be as close as possible to where she was found, as most reptiles have home ranges and know their own territory and it’s resources. If I can find any members at the convention from that area of NM, then getting them back to their natural habitat is my first choice. If I can’t find someone right off, then I’ll work at it, or get them setup in a nice habitat either with me, a well known researcher, or maybe someplace like the Texas Wild exhibit. We were hoping to go herping in NM before fall, but I’m not sure if we will yet. If it looks like we can’t get them back there, then worst case they’ll be taken care of here while the babies grow a bit.

The convention unofficially starts Fri. with a tour of the Ft. Worth zoo- Texas Horned Lizard captive breeding program at the Texas Wild exhibit. This will be from 1-5pm on Friday, but I’m not sure yet what hour we will get there. The official meeting and such starts on Saturday on TCU campus at the Dee Kelly Alumni Center and Mary Couts Burnett Library. There is going to be some presentations I wanted to hear, and people to talk to, but a lot of it is going to be just luncheon and business meetings within the organization. I don’t care to stay for all of it on Sat., so I’m up in the air about that day.

It might be best to just meet up at the zoo on Fri. if we can. Can you make a Fri.? We can work something else out if that’s not a good day. I’m just not clear yet on the time of day either Fri. or Sat. as if we attend both days, we’ll be driving down each day from Wichita Falls. I’ll give my cell number before we come down.

On the interim care: Keep in mind not everything in that care sheet goes for these short horns. Most people don’t have them, so I didn’t cover them.

No UVB right now is fine. It won’t harm them to be without it for about a week. They are growing babies though, and a few minutes of sunlight would be good. They will get a little bit through the glass to get them by for now, but, if you have them near a window you need to make sure that they don’t get too hot. Baby Horned Lizards can get too hot very quickly in an aquarium, and these hernandesi species are used to a bit colder climate due to the elevation.

You can take them for about 10 minutes out into some partial shade during the day. Don’t use an aquarium though, use something with low sides that will allow plenty of air circulation where you can watch them. And don’t put them in direct sunlight without offering shade too.

You may want to keep the mother and babies seperate if the mother is walking over them and may hurt them.

Put a thermometer in with them, and keep them at around the low-mid 80sF. The basking temps. in my care sheet were meant for low elevation desert floor dwelling species.

You may keep the mother on the sand, but for now paper towels would be safer for neonates. They are young and may ingest too much sand with their food, causing an impaction. You could put them in a plastic tub or large tupperware with lid for now, lined with paper towels. You can lightly mist down the paper towels for humidity, and add a small dish of drinking water. Mist the babies once a day or as needed if they are thirsty. This species needs more humidity, water, and lower temps. than other species. If you want to give them something to hide under, you can throw in a bunch of crumpled strips of paper towel.

Fruitflies are great, and they can have plenty of those. They can run through a lot of those fast though, and they get expensive. The fruitfly containers were really meant to breed them in over time and produce many more fruitflies, but unfortunately there is little time for that. If you use any crickets, make sure they are no more than 1/2 the length of the head of the baby, and half the width of the baby’s head to avoid complications. It’s almost impossible to get very many that small at Petco though, unless they are carefully hand picked out. They carry baby reptiles that need pinhead crickets, but Petco doesn’t even stock them for their own animals, and animals their own care sheets say that need pinheads! They’re so jacked up over there.



07/24/07  12:11am

 #1373051


Babyhonytoad
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   Message To: Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3   In reference to Message Id: 1371914


 Baby Short Horned Toads just born Help

The mother was found at Montebello’s RV Park. Here is the link:
http://www.taosmontebellorvpark.com/

Saturday would be better as I have to work on Friday unless it’s in the evening. We can meet up some time Saturday at the TCU. Thanks



07/24/07  08:50pm

 #1373656


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Babyhonytoad   In reference to Message Id: 1373051


 Baby Short Horned Toads just born Help

OK. I pm’d you. I don’t remember if I gave you my number already.



07/25/07  04:14am

 #1373660


Phrynosoma_Texas_FS3
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   Message To: Babyhonytoad   In reference to Message Id: 1373051


 Baby Short Horned Toads just born Help

OK. I pm’d you. I don’t remember if I gave you my number already.



07/25/07  04:15am

 #1410587


Jake33
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   Message To: Cable_Hogue   In reference to Message Id: 1369766


 Baby Short Horned Toads just born Help

dude thell just die my cousin did the same hing it had like 10 babys. the babys will just die soon you should try to return them to the wild. there very hard to take care of the mom will probaly just die about a cuple weeks later. sorry to say but they wont live for some strange reason.
08/20/07  12:14am


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