King Snakes - Pine Shavings??

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Optimus Yvette40 SusanC Optimus L.ROY Zechriel L.ROY Kingfan Craigh Wisema2297 Craigh Kingfan L.ROY Craigh Zechriel Optimus L.ROY Craigh Wisema2297 L.ROY Wisema2297

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#1702579

Optimus
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Pine Shavings??

Hi...
I’m currently keeping my Kings on bark chips...
I know about cedar shavings being toxic, but get different opinions when it comes to keeping snakes on pine shavings.

I’d love to keep them on Pine as it makes things much more convenient.... Will this harm my snakes?
I’ve got a big Florida male, baby Cali King and getting a Grey banded king baby and sinaloan milk baby soon...

04/14/08 08:00am

#1702599

Yvette40
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Message To: Optimus In reference to Message Id: 1702579

Pine Shavings??

Pine shavings are just as toxic as Cedar. Please don’t use it.

04/14/08 08:53am

#1702604

SusanC
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Message To: Optimus In reference to Message Id: 1702579

Pine Shavings??

Optimus,
You are right... you’ll run into this big debate over pine shavings... I’ve found care sheets that say you can keep corns on pine.. and I actually bought a corn that was on pine for her entire life... and she is beautiful.. and checked out healthy. I’ve been asking a lot of questions about this...b/c I live in SC where corn snakes are rather rampant.. and they are found in dead pine logs around here. My only guess is that b/c they are outside and have better ventilation, that the toxins from the pine oils do not bother them... but in the confined enclosure.. it would... that being said... lets get back to my corn snake... she lived for well over a year with her previous owner..living on pine shavings.. and has never eaten anything but raw chicken pieces... this owner was doing everything that most snake keepers say is the wrong thing to do... but was actually told to do this by a herp vet... the snake was fine... I had her checked... did I stay with the pine shavings? nope... did I continue to feed her chicken? nope again.. she is now living on aspen... and she converted with a hearty response to mice
As for the pine thing.. I guess it would be up to you. Walmart sells both pine and aspen.. and I think aspen MIGHT be 20 cent more expensive... I just didn’t see where it was worth the risk to continue a behavior that is still in question... my opinion? stick with what you know... and what works... maybe the previous owner was just lucky.. 20 more cents for a bag of aspen compared to a vet bill that could have been avoided... that one was a no brainer for me.
Good luck and hope this helps you decide.
Susan

04/14/08 08:58am

#1703869

Optimus
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Message To: SusanC In reference to Message Id: 1702604

Pine Shavings??

Hey thanx for the replies...

I’m from Cape Town (South Africa) and for the life of me cant find any aspen anywhere...
Theres evrything else....bark, sands, vermiculate, husks and all that other bedding but cannot find aspen... Maybe it goes by another name here???

Thanks for you help... I’d stick away from pine then...

04/15/08 02:25am

#1704463

L.ROY
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Message To: Optimus In reference to Message Id: 1703869

Pine Shavings??

i’ve used pine shavings for 7 years and never had a problem with it. before i used pine i used aspen but found too many splinters/slivers in it. i’ll stay with soft fluffy pine shavings.

04/15/08 05:39pm

#1704521

Zechriel
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Message To: L.ROY In reference to Message Id: 1704463

Pine Shavings??

L.Roy-does pine also have that dust? I bought this new brand of aspen and it has lot fo dust..so much that Thunder looks gray and it comes off in our hands. I am now wondering about pine. Or something else. We use pine for the mice cages but since they’re life span is only 2 years...I cannot tell if they had any probelms with it. Look forward to some responses. I have used aspen for 2 years but just this past year..started another brand of aspen-I do not like it.

04/15/08 06:13pm

#1705173

L.ROY
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Message To: Zechriel In reference to Message Id: 1704521

Pine Shavings??

Zechriel,
the pine i use has very little dust. the aspen i bought at petco had lots of dust. does your aspen have slivers?

04/16/08 06:45am

#1705257

Kingfan
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Message To: L.ROY In reference to Message Id: 1705173

Pine Shavings??

that is interesting. the pine is really in nice "flakes" whereas, like you say, the aspen tends to have slivers. it is a good debate. a lot of the "deadly sins" of keeping snakes can tend to be overblown i think, and the whole pine shaving thing could be one of them. if you’ve kept them for so many years on pine with obvious success i don’t see how that could be argued. i’m not arguing against the importance of good husbandry of course.

04/16/08 09:14am

#1705265

Craigh
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Message To: Kingfan In reference to Message Id: 1705257

Pine Shavings??

The aromatic oils in the pine can kill your snake. Just because you haven’t had a problem Yet does not mean that you won’t have a problem in the future. Maybe you cut their life in half, you know? Perhaps they live for 10 years instead of 20? Worth the chance when you have so many other options without a ridiculous expense?
Just know that snakes are very good at hiding illnesses. Just because you haven’t seen any symptoms or no one has dropped dead yet, doesn’t matter. It might take 30 years for smoking cigarettes to catch up to you, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t bad for you. I don’t keep Kingsnakes just Boas so I might be wrong .....

04/16/08 09:31am

#1705330

Wisema2297
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Message To: Craigh In reference to Message Id: 1705265

Pine Shavings??

Many people keep their corns and kings on pine and so far I have not heard of a single incident. L.Roy has been keeping snakes longer than most people on this site have been alive (not cracking on your age Jetzen). Everyone has READ that it’s not good but no one can come up with once instance that something bad happened that was attributed to pine shavings.

04/16/08 10:50am

#1705351

Craigh
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Message To: Wisema2297 In reference to Message Id: 1705330

Pine Shavings??

Pine is believed by many veterinarians and veterinary pathologists to contain many of the toxic qualities as its cousin, cedar. True I know there is not much literature written on the effects of pine on snakes and reptiles. But there has been a growing body of literature on the effects of pine volatiles on humans and a variety of other animals and plants. True, they don’t address reactions documented in reptiles. But I am not heard to start a debate if one knows that that it can be an effect and still chooses to use it. To each is there own. But before recommend it a new herper should at least let them know there is a danger and if the choose to see use thats fine. Just like sand / no sand issue with Geckos and bearded dragons.

I am against the its my way or the highway type thing.

Craig

04/16/08 11:19am

#1705663

Kingfan
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Message To: Craigh In reference to Message Id: 1705265

Pine Shavings??

i think you probably meant to address your message to L.roy not me. i use aspen myself but i was just saying that just to look at it the pine looks to be in nice flakes instead of sliver shapes. you make a good point though with the smoking analogy things can be toxic but not necessarily lethal in an abrupt manner. i don’t know if there is a definitive answer to be had.

04/16/08 04:40pm

#1705724

L.ROY
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Message To: Kingfan In reference to Message Id: 1705663

Pine Shavings??

i read something interesting about pine on another forum years ago. it was about collecting a type of kingsnake that naturaly occurs under the bark and inside of dead and dieing pine trees.

04/16/08 05:21pm

#1705728

Craigh
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Message To: L.ROY In reference to Message Id: 1705724

Pine Shavings??

Sry King I never reply to the right ppl I just usually click on the last post to make one.

L.ROY I heard a little about that to a while back. Could be evaluation made it so they can absorb toxin better... /shrug
Going to try and google :)

04/16/08 05:27pm

#1705970

Zechriel
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Message To: Craigh In reference to Message Id: 1705728

Pine Shavings??

No, it does not have slivers. the pine does for the mice cages but we usually pick those out. This new brand though - and It just came in a small bag at pet quarters is really dusty. When we take him out, he is literally covered in it and it feels just like flour. Ewwww I know and i wonder how much he is breathing it in since he loves his "tunnels". Still watching this forum with interest ::smiles::

04/16/08 07:58pm

#1706320

Optimus
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Message To: Zechriel In reference to Message Id: 1705970

Pine Shavings??

LOL this is exactly what I was talking about... Now I’m not sure what to do again!?...

I’ll probably just stay away from pine, even though it will make things soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more convenient for me!

04/17/08 06:33am