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Geezle Greatballzofire Geezle Geezle Greatballzofire Squal IguanaKeeper15 Greatballzofire Squal IguanaKeeper15 Geezle IguanaKeeper15 Geezle Geezle Daynegerous Philly3546 Daynegerous Greatballzofire Ang> Greatballzofire Ang>

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#2006008

Geezle
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Rescue - king crash course

Hi folks. I see that there are a couple other rescue threads on here, and I hate to add another one, but I just had this little guy given to me, and I’m not entirely sure what to do with him. I have read a number of care sheets, and will continue to read more, but I’m wondering what some of the real obvious things I should be doing for this guy are.

I literally just received him and he’s in a small cardboard box right now, but as soon as I’m done typing out this post I’m going to go clean out a 21 gallon bin that I used to use for cockroaches for him to stay in at least temporarily.

I keep a number of lizards, and though I know lizards and snakes are not the same, I’m very familiar with the concepts of proper enclosures, heat, diet etc.

Also, I’m curious about enclosure furnishings. What types of things do these guys like?

The guy I got him from told me that he hasn’t eaten for "at least 3 weeks" so I’m going to try feeding him some fuzzies in a bit. Should I just feed him a couple for now, or all he will eat?

I’ll try to get a couple pics of him in a bit, but first I need to get his caging sorted out.

I appreciate any input I can get to help this little guy out.

05/16/09 09:13pm

#2006072

Greatballzofire
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Message To: Geezle In reference to Message Id: 2006008

Rescue - king crash course

After you get him into the cockroach bin, give him a couple days to settle in, then feed him one fuzzie to start him off. Avoid over feeding him as that may cause regurgitation. After 7 days feed him again, a couple fuzzies if he wants. You didn’t say how big he actually is, so I am guessing here.

For furnishings they like aspen or some such bedding to burrow in and a hide to crawl under, and a nice big water bowl. Here is a photo I just took of my California king, lounging on her driftwood. The container under the bark is her moist sphagnum moss hide, which sits on top of her UTH. She likes that a lot, and it assists her in shedding. Be sure to have a secure lid on the bin as these snakes are the Houdinis of the animal world!

05/16/09 10:32pm

#2006110

Geezle
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Message To: Greatballzofire In reference to Message Id: 2006072

Rescue - king crash course

Well here’s the best pic I’ve gotten of him/her so far. I’m guessing he’s somewhere around 2’ long

I already did feed him one fuzzy, but I’ll hold off on feeding any more. I wasn’t sure about feeding since the guy I got him from said he ate about 6 fuzzies last time he fed him...but I also don’t know how often he had been fed prior. Warm side temps are around 82-85F via a UTH with the cool side in the mid 70’s, measured via a temp gun.

Right now I’ve got him on a coir mulch mix - basically the coconut stuff, it’s a mixture of the fine eco-earth type stuff as well as some bigger chunks. I used this because I had it handy, but I see a lot of people using aspen, and if this coconut stuff isn’t appropriate I have no problems switching it over to aspen chips. I have a piece of driftwood, a little coconut hut, and a water dish in there right now, but no moist hide. That’ll have to wait until tomorrow morning when I can go find a suitable container and some moss.

I only handled him briefly when moving him from the box to the bin, but he seems reasonably tame...or at least not overally bitey. The previous owner said that he was hand tame when he got him, but he had since gotten aggressive. I’m thinking this may have been because the snake was just hungry.

05/16/09 11:53pm

#2006154

Geezle
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Message To: Geezle In reference to Message Id: 2006110

Rescue - king crash course

Now that I’ve had a little more time to think about things, is the UTH sufficient on its own as long as the temps are correct, or is overhead head required as well?

What about supplementation? What kind of supplements should I be using and how often?

What about handling? I know not to handle right after feeding, but how long after can the snake again be handled without worrying about regurgitation?

And finally I have to say wow is this guy active! He’s been cruising all around his enclosure since I put him in there. Can I expect him to always be this active, or is this more about exploring his new surroundings? Are there items (branches, rocks, etc.) that I can add to encourage activity?

I’m sorry if these questions have already been asked before (I’m pretty sure they have been)...I got this guy on very short notice and I’m just trying to get him set up as well as I possibly can right now. From the sounds of things I’m reasonably sure that he’s already set up better than he was with his previous owner, which is a little sad.

For not having any intentions of getting a snake, I have to say that this guy is really pretty interesting. Initially I was planning on just getting him back to good health and then finding him a permanent home through the local reptile and amphibian society, but I’m already thinking about keeping him for myself instead!

05/17/09 01:01am

#2006223

Greatballzofire
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Message To: Geezle In reference to Message Id: 2006154

Rescue - king crash course

I think the UTH is sufficient on its own. King snakes don’t need the high ambient temperatures that boas and pythons need. They are a temperate climate species whereas boas, pythons and many of the popular lizard species are tropical.

I don’t use any sort of supplements, but my kings seem to be fine with just the mice I raise for them. I feed my mice a good diet, which translates into good food for the snakes. Maybe some of the other forum members would have input on supplements.

I wait a minimum of about 4 days before handling my snakes after they eat. While digesting they like to go hole up in their hides and not be disturbed, so I take a cue from their behavior.
If he doesn’t seem prone to regurgitation feed him as much as he likes. He will have the most enthusiastic feeding response during the spring.

They do like interesting things to crawl in, under and around.

Zona on her manzanita branch.

I don’t think you can go wrong keeping this little snake. He is very pretty, and will be a most rewarding pet.

05/17/09 08:19am

#2007540

Squal
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Message To: Greatballzofire In reference to Message Id: 2006223

Rescue - king crash course

If I were you i’d not use any kind of mulch/wood chips as seen in both you guys pictures. I’ve read that there can be some allergies and parasites that can come with that kind of terrain. I’ve breed Kingsnakes and I currently own a California Coastal King, Sinaloan Milk, Pueblan Milk, and a California Rosy Boa. All my Snake have a sand base. I purchase play sand from home depot its been cleaned and sterilized for kids to play in and is 100% safe for your snake. It also makes it easy to clean the fecies messes they make. King snakes/Milk snakes are some of the most docile temperment of snakes. I’ve caught several kings from the wild and relocated them and never have gotten bit. generall what i do in my cages is i have a hot side and a cold side. Put your heat lamp and rock heater if you use one on one side of the cage and put the water bowl on the cold side. I generally give them one place to completely hide. You should have a few rocks in the cage to make it easy for them to shed their skin when its that time. Since Kings are around this area as stated they dont need much care as far as heat lamps/heat rocks. I use them generally to give them the feeling of day vs night. A good hint i’d offer new snake owners is to always feed your snake in a seperate container/cage. This way whenever you enter "His home" (Cage) he knows not to bite the hand that feeds it. I used to own a 12’ red tailed boa and had i not feed him in a seperate cage he would of biten me. Its good to wait atleast 1-2 days before handling your snake after he’s eaten, and you might not want to hold them very much when they are getting ready to shed their skin. When they Shed their whole body gets a foggy film color and
their color gets darker slightly and about a day or 2 prior to the actual shed they loose their eye caps. Holding them prior to that may get you bite because their already bad vision is impaired even more. I dont really suggest holding them until the whole process is complete and they usually are hungary after they shed because they dont eat well during that process and its a pretty strenuous thing to scrap and pull all that skin off. Rocks, Branches, Hides are always a good thing to have I suggest dont putting to much or you might not see alot of your snake. And yes when you change their surroundings they are more active. The more u change the surroundings the more active they are so if you like to see ur snake do random snake cage reorangements hehe. Anyways i hope this helps...If you decide to not keep him for whatever reason Email me if you have any questions email me..

05/19/09 01:21pm

#2007752

IguanaKeeper15
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Message To: Squal In reference to Message Id: 2007540

Rescue - king crash course

I disagree on using sand. It can get in between the scales on the underside of the snake and cause infections. Also could be ingested and cause internal health problems for the snake.

Aspen bedding and cypress mulch would be the best bet.

05/19/09 07:51pm

#2007775

Greatballzofire
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Message To: IguanaKeeper15 In reference to Message Id: 2007752

Rescue - king crash course

I agree with IguanaKeeper15, sand is not really the best thing for snakes. Also it is very heavy. I like the aspen because it is lightweight and easy to find the poop in, and the snakes can burrow in it. If a few aspen flakes get loose in my living room, no big deal, but sand is much harder to clean up. I have never had my snakes get any mites from the aspen bedding. I use this for my bluebelly lizards, too. They like to bury themselves in the aspen, and are doing fine. If I used sand my tubs would be way too heavy to move about.
I feed my snakes on paper towels in feeding jars:

so they do not ingest any substrate, and they know the routine of the feeding jar.

05/19/09 08:24pm

#2008178

Squal
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Message To: Greatballzofire In reference to Message Id: 2007775

Rescue - king crash course

well thats funny because every professional herpotoligist i’ve spoken with says aspen/bark bedding is alot worse for snakes... I can’t remember all the reasons i’ve been told. But it definatly isn’t easier to clean the poop out of.. you take big chunks of aspen vs taking a spoon or even a small kitty scoop to gather the poop off the sand. Yes the sand can get between the scales but it doesn’t cause parasites and wont become LODGED between the scales even stabbing the snakes inner skin layer as aspen/bark pieces may do.. as well as absorbing dampness and becoming contaminated over time...as well as hiding in the aspen the sand they can burrow in just as well. I agree it makes the cage heavier especially if your going to transport the cage. Anyhow i dont really think apsen vs sand is better or vice versa its more of a preference they both do the same thing.. and i steer clear of aspen/bark bedding because i’ve had several repitable in person sources tell me not to use aspen bedding so i have steered clear....

05/20/09 02:42pm

#2008310

IguanaKeeper15
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Message To: Squal In reference to Message Id: 2008178

Rescue - king crash course

If aspen bedding was as bad as you say it is, then it wouldnt be the preferred substrate used by most Kingsnake breeders. Cleanup is very easy, you just scoop the area where defecated, you dont have to remove very much aspen at all when spot cleaning poop out of the cage. As far as mites and parasites, you can still get those with sand as a substrate. Preventing mites and parasites is the person taking care of the snakes responsibility, if you keep your snakes enclosure clean and change out the substrate when needed you wont have any problems with mites or parasites. So parasites and mites dont have much to do with what kind of substrate you use, that has more to do with the husbandry involved in keeping a clean enclosure.

Sand can also get dusty and lead to respiratory problems. But yes you are correct it comes down to the persons preference of what substrate they feel would be best for their snake. Im just giving pro’s and con’s of sand vs aspen and cypress mulch.

05/20/09 06:21pm

#2008617

Geezle
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Message To: IguanaKeeper15 In reference to Message Id: 2008310

Rescue - king crash course

Ah yes, the good ol’ substrate debate. Seems like not matter what type of animal is being dealt with, there are always a ton of differing opinions on substrate choice.

So aside from the possibility of mites, are there any particular issues I should be concerned with right now, with the coconut mixture I’m using as a substrate?

05/21/09 08:13am

#2008745

IguanaKeeper15
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Message To: Geezle In reference to Message Id: 2008617

Rescue - king crash course

Nope, thats basically the same as eco-earth. Which I know a few members on here use it as substrate and they have no problems.

05/21/09 12:46pm

#2009488

Geezle
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Message To: IguanaKeeper15 In reference to Message Id: 2008745

Rescue - king crash course

Sweet, thanks for confirming that for me. I use a similar mixture for my water dragon and timor monitor and have had no problems with it.

I did use it for my roaches for quite some time, but ran into a mite problem when I let it get too moist (my own fault). I’ve since switched to aspen chips for them, though it was mainly because the small ones are too hard to pick out of the eco earth type stuff, they just kinda blend in, where with the aspen chips they stand out more and are easier to spot.

Actually right now I have so many roaches I could keep them in just about anything and they’d be easy to spot!

05/22/09 06:28pm

#2010618

Geezle
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Message To: Greatballzofire In reference to Message Id: 2006072

Rescue - king crash course

Quote:
The container under the bark is her moist sphagnum moss hide, which sits on top of her UTH. She likes that a lot, and it assists her in shedding.

It took me longer than I wanted to get a humid hide set up, but once I did, wow! I can’t believe how much time my snake spends in there. It’s just a tupperware container with a hole cut in the side and some moist moss...pretty standard really, but it does the trick. The sad thing is the previous owner never had a humid hide at all. I’m not sure how resilient these snakes are, but it seems like the previous owner of this snake did almost everything wrong, but the snake itself looks to be in pretty good shape.

I’m a little concerned that his growth may be a little stunted due to inadequate feedings, but without knowing his age I can’t really say anything for sure. I’m just hoping I can beef him up and keep him happy and healthy.

I appreciate the advice that has been given to help me keep this guy in good shape, and welcome any comments and constructive criticism.

05/25/09 12:03am

#2068146

Daynegerous
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Message To: Geezle In reference to Message Id: 2010618

Rescue - king crash course

Does the moist hide always have to be over an UTH and is it true that heat lamps and rocks are bad for snake?

09/05/09 07:38pm

#2068306

Philly3546
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Message To: Daynegerous In reference to Message Id: 2068146

Rescue - king crash course

m just after get a cali king will i put a moist hide in with it

09/06/09 07:14am

#2068317

Daynegerous
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Message To: Philly3546 In reference to Message Id: 2068306

Rescue - king crash course

How do you get moist moss? and how do you keep it moist? how often do you need to change it?

09/06/09 08:21am

#2068331

Greatballzofire
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Message To: Daynegerous In reference to Message Id: 2068317

Rescue - king crash course

The moss hide is light weight enough that should the snake desire he can crawl under it for closer contact with the UTH. In the summertime I give them another moss hide in the cooler part of the tank. I cover the moss container with a piece of bark or a cardboard flat, as they also like to lay on top of it.

My young gophers on their moss hides, after I have lifted up the cardboard flat that covered this affair.

Sphagnum moss can be purchased at a garden supply store. I like orchid moss, which I buy at Lowe’s. It is a softer grade than the usual moss.

The moss comes dry; get it wet, then squeeze out the excess water, then put it in the hide container and put the lid on. Put a couple of holes in either side of the container so the snake can get into it. Check for poops by looking through the clear plastic of the container, and remove the soiled part, wash the container, then put the clean moss back. Change the moss about once a month.

09/06/09 09:36am

#2068530

Ang>
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Message To: Greatballzofire In reference to Message Id: 2068331

Rescue - king crash course

i’ve been thinking about doing a moss hide for my king, but i was just wondering if there are any issues with, say, mites or some such being present in the moss at the store? i have no idea if this should even be a concern, i’ve just been curious about that for a while! every post i’ve read about moss hides on here sings their praises, i’m sure my boy would find one extremely interesting. new additions to his tank decour always get him pretty wound up :)

09/06/09 06:57pm

#2068601

Greatballzofire
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Message To: Ang> In reference to Message Id: 2068530

Rescue - king crash course

I’ve been using both orchid moss and the regular sphagnum moss for a long time, and never had any that had mites in it. I’ve used it in gardening applications and for my animals, and have yet to see any bugs of any sort in the moss. Now if the snake already had mites, the mites would like to lay eggs and hatch in the moist moss. But that would be a case of the snake giving the moss mites, not the other way around.

09/06/09 10:27pm

#2068732

Ang>
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Message To: Greatballzofire In reference to Message Id: 2068601

Rescue - king crash course

thanks GBofF! i’ll be picking up some moss this week.

09/07/09 08:37am

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