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Jakemyster44 KrazyKelli Yeroc62 Jakemyster44 Jakemyster44 KrazyKelli |
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Jakemyster44 View Profile |
Small time breeder VRS. Petshops
Sadly both of these were days away from dying and All i could do was try to treat them (not knowing they would soon die) and try to keep them comfortable. It breaks my heart to see these two pretty leos die, but it also makes me appreciate breeders a whole lot more. Here is a HEALTHY leo from a breeder:
The differeance is amazing, and I just thought afew people might be interested in this post. For people new to leos and considering buying one: please try to support only breeders and GOOD pet shops. Any questions/comments are welcome as always. |
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| 04/04/08 07:03pm |
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KrazyKelli View Profile |
Message To: Jakemyster44 In reference to Message Id: 1689523 Small time breeder VRS. Petshops
"I got these two dieing leos from a petshop and this one healthy leo from a breeder. So that means almost all petshops are bad and all breeders are good" Just because you found and purchased two dieing leos from a store doesn’t mean that a large sum of them are bad. Who knows, in the whole of the world there could be a larger sum of good petstores, but pet-enthused people try to find the bad petstores or misinformed petstores out there and over-express how terrible all are. You see stuff like this on PETA websites. They find one bad petstore or one bad backwoods shelter, make a huge deal about it, and try to convince people that all are therefore bad. Another reason this large misrepresentation happens is because one chain of well-known petstores may have a few bad eggs in the basket. People go to the large stores because the name is familiar, while the more numerous smaller stores are not often seen - regardless of how the animals are cared for. A third problem concerning your mis-representation of bad petstores is the sand crisis of 1990-2000. Before we know leo care today, it was widely believed that sand was good for leos in the first one or two decades of their keep in the US. The only people who didn’t use sand were breeders, and not because it was bad for leos. Breeders didn’t use sand because paper towels were far cheaper and therefore cost-efficiant. It was only found recently, as in the last few year, that sand could impact the reptiles and therefore a surge in care happened. The petstores that use sand in their tanks - and therefore end up with occasionally sick, thin, or dieing leos from impaction - honestly have not caught up with the crop. They are not purposefully putting their leos on sand to kill them. This needs to be understood. These big chain petstores simply have not had their age old caresheet updated for them yet. Lastly, the biggest inconsistency I saw in your post was that the sick leos are juvis/hatchlings and the big healthy leo is an adult. Many things happen to kill younger leos. Not only is sand impaction a bigger issue, but there have been recent outbreaks of crypto over the last two to three years that took out major populations of hatchlings and closed some breeders down. Not only are some petstores completely unaware that such a disease exists and therefore accidentally sell their contaminated leos to the public, but it also sometimes doens’t show up until 2 to 3 months after infection before the leo turns radically ill and dies. Breeders have the same problem, though they know what to look for. Many breeders sold leos with crypto during the outbreak as well, and some breeders had to close down. So this only goes to prove that in some cases even breeders can give you a sick reptile by accident. The biggest thing I noticed in the ’breeders only sell healthy leos while petstores sell unhealthy ones’ thing is that most breeders will not ship juvi or hatchling geckos by mail due to the possibility of death on arriving, so only sell adults. Petstores usually get their leos locally from breeders, farms, and kids who think it’s great to watch their leos make eggs, but then don’t know what to do with the 16 hatchlings later on. Adult leos are past the phazes of growing while hatchlings and juvis haven’t gotten all of their immunities down yet and can have a potential of getting sick easier. So yeah, that’s all I have to say about this. Unless you can go through the whole of America, Europe, and Australia and take pictures of all petstores you come to, you cannot by any means give a statistic that - because of the one store you got sick leos from - most petstores are bad and all breeders are good. |
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| 04/05/08 11:54am |
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Yeroc62 View Profile |
Message To: KrazyKelli In reference to Message Id: 1690183 Small time breeder VRS. Petshops
Quote: Lastly, the biggest inconsistency I saw in your post was that the sick leos are juvis/hatchlings and the big healthy leo is an adult.
Actually, the healthy leo isn’t an adult. In that picture, she was just under 4 months old. I have seen 2-4 month old leos in pet stores that weren’t too much bigger than hatchlings, due to bad husbandry. |
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| 04/05/08 12:01pm |
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Jakemyster44 View Profile |
Message To: Yeroc62 In reference to Message Id: 1690188 Small time breeder VRS. Petshops
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| 04/05/08 12:25pm |
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Jakemyster44 View Profile |
Message To: KrazyKelli In reference to Message Id: 1690183 Small time breeder VRS. Petshops
Quote: "I got these two dieing leos from a petshop and this one healthy leo from a breeder. So that means almost all petshops are bad and all breeders are good"
Its not like I went in and picked the most unhealthy leos I could find. They were in with LOTS of other cagemates in similar conditions. Some were even dead. I have so far seen one decent petshop in my area and the rest (around 10 or so) are all BAD. I have also been to a great petstore in Chicago that I liked alot. So that means 2 out of 11 pet stores I HAVE BEEN TO ARE BAD. I would be happy with a store If I walked in and there were maybe a few leos that looked not the best, but to have dead ones in the cage and NO HEALTHY ones in the cage whatsover tells me Hey, these guys dont know what they are doing. Quote: A third problem concerning your mis-representation of bad petstores is the sand crisis of 1990-2000.
If i see sand in the cage I dont just assume that the petstore is atomaticaly bad. In fact the petstore in chicago had sand, but that was the only flaw i saw and the leos on the sand were big enough for some people to consider it safe. I now that petstores are not trying to kill there leos by putting them on sand. I dont use sand and will never use sand but if you truly take care of your leo they shouldnt have too much trouble passing a little sand. The two I got were from a store with reptile carpet. Finaly AS I stated in my original post not all petstores are bad and not all breeders are good. But if you think about it when you said "they simply havnt updated their caresheets" isnt that their fault? shouldnt they be looking for the lates info on how to care for there pets? Well with most petstores I’ve seen they havnt, and you yourself said Quote: These big chain petstores simply have not had their age old caresheet updated for them yet.
And I know there are breeders out thre who have there leos still on sand but can you name any breeders that use sand? I know you are just stating your opinion and i ave no hard feelings toward you. I hope you can respecct mine. |
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| 04/05/08 12:51pm |
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KrazyKelli View Profile |
Message To: Jakemyster44 In reference to Message Id: 1690217 Small time breeder VRS. Petshops
But there’s been so much bad flack against petstores going on recently on the leo forums. And I do not at all want someone to read your thread, take it out of context, then go out and find some bad petstores to add to your statements (to the point that your statements would be blown far out of proportion). It seems highly one-winged to say ’most petstores are bad’ or ’all breeders are good’. There is always a moderation to be considered in both to make even the briefest assumption on something like that. Just because someone popular is bad does not mean the entire genre and culture the person is in is bad. And just because someone is good does not mean everyone in that culture is good. There are bad breeders out there just like there are good petstores, and breeders should be researched just as much as petstores. |
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| 04/05/08 01:54pm |
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