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#1681561
SteveOllllO
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Hybrids? 
Hello all. I know alot of people disaprove of cross breeding species of snakes. But I am verry interested in it. I would like to try and create my own oddities. Im just not sure which snakes are compatable. I know you can mix a Cali King with a Cornsnake, or a Cornsnake with an Emory Rat snake. But what about a Prairie King with a Corn, Honduran Milk with a Nelsons Milk, or perhaps a Honduran & a Cali. I would just like a heads up before I try this. I would rather not wayste my time on something impossible. Any insite at all would be helpful & greatly apreciated.
Thank you. Steve
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03/29/08 11:40pm
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#1683195
Peter54
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Message To: SteveOllllO In reference to Message Id: 1681561
Hybrids?
Technically you can mix just about any two American colubrids together as long as the two are about the same size. However, in real life things work differently and the two you have planned to mix might not be interrested in eachother.
I belong to the negative side in this, mainly because after two-three generations there’s no way of telling what the snake is. I also have a personal problem with this from a moral perspective. The species and subspecies have evolved over millions and millions of years and this evolution is wrecked in an instant moment of human curiousity. Some mixes I can accept, but not all. If the hybrid is "natural", meaning you can find them in the wild, I think it’s okay. For example, California kings mix with three of the other getula subspecies in the wild.
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03/31/08 02:24am
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#1683529
SteveOllllO
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Message To: Peter54 In reference to Message Id: 1683195
Hybrids?
I see your point. & understand completely. But. These snakes are bred soley for human enjoyment.as pets. Like dogs & cats. If they arent being released into the wild, theyre doing no harm at all. Thats the way i look at it. It might not be right. but it makes sense. Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.
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03/31/08 01:56pm
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#1683896
Peter54
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Message To: SteveOllllO In reference to Message Id: 1683529
Hybrids?
I can go along with that to some degree. I mean, if you mix two species and then mix in a third one later, and then maybe a fourth one, what have you got at the end of the day? These hybrids will be fertile, they’re not like mules - infertile.
This kind is the only hybrid I have, it’s a mix between a male desert 50/50 California king and a female speckled king. These two do mix in the wild too.
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03/31/08 05:08pm
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#1684767
SteveOllllO
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Message To: Peter54 In reference to Message Id: 1683896
Hybrids?
Beautiful snake man. Did you buy it. Or did cross the two yourself. What would a snake of that caliber go for?
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04/01/08 05:11am
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#1684778
Peter54
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Message To: SteveOllllO In reference to Message Id: 1684767
Hybrids?
It’s one of my own. It’s kind of a funny story really. I had a female speckled that got some sort of obstruction near the cloaca when she was about two years of age. I first thought that she was constipated, but when I tried to help her, I realized that the obstruction was in the egg canal. However there was this thick membrane in the way and I figured that she would have to open that herself but for some reason she couldn’t.
I took her to a vet and she took a very large syringe and a thick needle and penetrated the membrane. She extracted a very thick crystalclear yellow fluid, about 20 cc or so. The fluid or syrup was sent to two different labs, but nobody could ever determine just what it was. I still don’t know. It had no sign of any organic tissue at all.
Well, the speckled king refused to eat for about 3-4 months, but then I succeeded in tricking her to take a rat pinkie. After that she got back to her normal feeding. I had been saving that snake for a friend. He has a son who wanted the speckled king more than anything. They wanted to know if the snake was "ruined" from the eggproducing perspective and since I had no male speckled, I just took one of my California desert 50/50 males.
I had no great hope for her, but she turned out to be the best producer that year. She double clutched with four weeks apart, 10 eggs each. All hatched out.
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04/01/08 06:29am
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#1684780
Peter54
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Message To: SteveOllllO In reference to Message Id: 1684767
Hybrids?
I forgot your second qestion. I sold them for the same price as I do my other kingsnake hatchlings, about the equivalent of $80 US. That’s about what most nice young Cali kings go for over here. The duller ones you can get for as low as $50 US.
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04/01/08 06:34am
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#1685663
Candy_Corn
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Message To: Peter54 In reference to Message Id: 1684780
Hybrids?
Wow...that was an interesting story.
I was thinking of crossing my splendida w/ a male brooksi king, but they wouldn’t naturally produce in the wild. I was thinking that the offspring might be neat looking, b/c the male brooksi is yellow w/ black specks, and the female splendida is black with yellow specks.
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04/01/08 09:01pm
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#1686067
SteveOllllO
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Message To: Peter54 In reference to Message Id: 1684778
Hybrids?
Wow.. Amazing how things work out sometimes. Is she still producing?
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04/02/08 02:04am
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#1686607
Peter54
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Message To: SteveOllllO In reference to Message Id: 1686067
Hybrids?
Yep, she also doubleclutches every year. To my experience the speckled king does that more than any of the other kings, just as the Pueblan does it more than any other milksnake. This speckled female is with my friend nowadays and we still have not found a good male for her, so this season she was mated with my "reverse spotted" Cali male.
This is the female speckled.
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04/02/08 04:05pm
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#1687426
SteveOllllO
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Message To: Peter54 In reference to Message Id: 1686607
Hybrids?
Awesome. I cant wait untill my Cali is Large enough to breed. She’s beautiful. I still need to get a stud for her. I just havent made up my mind on what i want yet. What would you recomend? Im debating between A bannanna Cal, Striped Albino, Or maybe try some jungle corns. She’s only around a year and a half old. So I have a little while.
Do you notice the change in patern twords the tail? do you think she might have some striped in her?
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04/03/08 12:57am
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#1689364
Louisguy
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Message To: SteveOllllO In reference to Message Id: 1687426
Hybrids?
If everyone keeps breeding hybrids you are gonna mess up the captive gene pool until its gonna be hard to tell what species each snake is. In ten years all captive bred north american colubrids could all look the same and you’re gonna have a bunch of mutt snakes with a few true breeders struggling to maintain pure bloodlines. I’m totally against crossing species unless it occurs in the wild and even then i don’t see why you would want to.
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04/04/08 04:57pm
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#1689421
Peter54
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Message To: Louisguy In reference to Message Id: 1689364
Hybrids?
I think you’re wrong, or at least way to cathegoric. There are just as many people out there going the opposit way, breeding not only inside species and subspecies, but all the way down to certain localities.
I belong to the group of people that tries to conserve and emphasize clean colors and patterns with unbroken rings and such. As I said before in this thread, I can stretch to mixing two subspecies into intergrades that do occur in the wild, but I would never mix two different species.
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04/04/08 05:34pm
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#1690057
SteveOllllO
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Message To: Peter54 In reference to Message Id: 1689421
Hybrids?
Atleast 75% of Dogs in the united states are a Mix breed. Do they all look the same? What about people? As big as interacial relationships are now, In say 200 years, Will everyone be the same color? Will there be only one race? I dont see how crossbreeding snake species is such a bad thing. Thats how we have domestic dogs and cats. Selective breeding. If it wasnt for that, The pet trade would be rather dull. I understand ya’lls point 100%. You can conserve the genetics of a species keeping the bloodline strong. But, At the same time, You can alter it. Make new things. Its not hurting a thing.
Anyways. Thats how I feel about the subject. Sorry for rambling. I’ll shut up and let your eyes have a rest.
Talk to ya’ll later.
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04/05/08 05:46am
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#1690443
Louisguy
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Message To: Peter54 In reference to Message Id: 1689421
Hybrids?
So basically you do agree with me peter? I’m not saying that everyone is trying to breed hybrids i’m just saying that doing so messes up the way nature intended these snakes and i feel that humans have no right to change the genetics of these animals that have been evolving for millions of years just to "see what would happen" or to try to make something that looks cool. This does not benefit the animals in any way and messes up the way nature intended them to be. If any of these animals escape into the wild then wild bloodlines are also muddied. Its a stupid thing to do anyway you look at it and i’m totally against it.
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04/05/08 04:54pm
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#1690887
Alligater
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Message To: Louisguy In reference to Message Id: 1690443
Hybrids?
when I bought my hondurans 3 years ago, I love the natural look and my tangerines I thought were natural looking,but I found out they were hypos and I have hatched out 2 ghost and a bi-color out of cross breeding in which I didn’t know my tangerines were breed into.If its not in nature,you’ll never know what you have and in nature you can still get cross breeding.But I got to admit you can get some very very nice cross breeds or mutts.Like Halloweens and Apricots ect
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04/05/08 09:58pm
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#1691274
SteveOllllO
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Message To: Alligater In reference to Message Id: 1690887
Hybrids?
Thanks Gater. Im glad someone kinda agrees with me.
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04/06/08 02:08am
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#1691390
Peter54
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Message To: Louisguy In reference to Message Id: 1690443
Hybrids?
I don’t like to be cathegoric, there are good and bad things involved with both opinions I think. I’m with you when it comes to mixing different species that never ever have the slightest chance to meet in the wild. However I do accept intergrades between subspecies and occassionally species that live in the same region, and I also accept mixing different color morphs in order to get "new" looks.
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04/06/08 08:07am
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