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 #1912237


Isabela
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 Milk Snakes, something new?

I currently own a ball python and a corn snake and I was looking into getting a king or milk snake. Are the temperaments of milk snakes that much different than a corns? I want to increase the variety in my collection but if a milk snake is basically a corn snake with a different pattern then I’ll probably get a BP morph.

Sorry if this question is dumb but when I think of corn, milk, and king snakes I kinda clump them into one big group in my mind. Thanks for the help.



12/10/08  04:06pm

 #1912421


Alligater
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   Message To: Isabela   In reference to Message Id: 1912237


 Milk Snakes, something new?

it depends on what kind you get,my hondurans and blacks are very aggressive eater,and my adult females will start to come out the cage to get the rats, htey are aggressive eater not aggresive to handle. Never been bitten,my year old blacks and hondurans(bi-color and ghost) will snatch a rat pinkie out of you hand.I have had corns and to me milks are brighter and better.Your smaller milks might be more shy.I got a Ball and he eats for 4 month and stops for 5 to 6 months, drives me crazy.If you were to live close to me I’d make you a deal on hondurans
12/10/08  09:13pm

 #1912476


Isabela
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   Message To: Alligater   In reference to Message Id: 1912421


 Milk Snakes, something new?

Thanks for the info. If you ever bring your snakes up near Maryland let me know and I’ll definitely take one off your hands! I love the feeding response on my corn as well and it would be great to get another snake with a similar ferocity in eating. I never tire of watching them eat. I guess we’ll see what Christmas brings this year and if I do end up getting a milk snake I’ll be sure to share pictures.

-Dennis



12/10/08  10:49pm

 #1913596


Mr.Greeeeeeen
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   Message To: Isabela   In reference to Message Id: 1912476


 Milk Snakes, something new?

My Tangerine Honduran is a lot more aggressive than my corn. He doesn’t like to be bothered too much. My corn loves to be handled...But the milks are sooo beautiful I’ll live with it !!!!!
12/12/08  06:56pm

 #1916547


Peter54
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   Message To: Mr.Greeeeeeen   In reference to Message Id: 1913596


 Milk Snakes, something new?

No snake "loves" to be handled. That is human behaviour interpretation put on another being, wich of course is never the right thing to do.

For example, many lizard owners state that their lizard loves to be caressed under the chin since it closes it’s eyes as if it was really enjoying it. The truth is that lizards closes their eyes as soon as any part of their head comes in contact with an object of any kind in order to protect their eyes.

The same can be said about snakes loving to be handled. There are several possible explanations to why the snake shows that behaviour, but wanting to interact is not one of them. Snakes are solitary creatures and have no need for interaction with others whatsoever besides mating and feeding.

I would say that most snakes will be drawn to our body heat. They are also curious by nature, otherwise they would not be able to find food in the wild. That means that they will always take a chance to explore the other side of the glass walls if the opportunity is presented to them.

Snakes, like all creatures, are individually different. Some have a bad temper, while others are always very easy to handle. You being able to handle a snake have nothing to do with the frequency of handling. Some snakes just never accepts it no matter how much effort you put in. Others on the other hand, are always easy handled even if they are picked up just once a year.

Actually, very frequent handling, can result in quite the opposite to what is expected and the snake gets even worse since it never is allowed to calm down. I have found thru the years that most aggressive milks and kings either have been mistreated (as for example starved), or they have been handled on a daily basis (or at least several times a week).

Hondurans used to have a bad reputation once way back, but at that time most of them were wild caught, wich resulted in quite a few bites. Nowadays there is no need for wild caught Honduran milksnakes since there are lots and lots of them produced in captivity. Therefore most of them are pretty easy going. But as I said earlier, a few snakes, no matter what species or subspecies, will be bad tempered and hard to handle.


My oldest and biggest male sinaoan, very easy to handle, although I pick him up about twice every year. I have another one with less good temper. He doesn’t bite but he still musks at 4 years of age.
12/18/08  04:27am

 #2016006


Snosrap
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   Message To: Peter54   In reference to Message Id: 1916547


 Milk Snakes, something new?

Peter,
you talk about being mistreated, specifically starved, which brings up a question that I would like to ask you. I have looked into getting a Black Milk Snake, and the person that is selling them commented that he had cooled them down for a four months, where they were not fed. I know that breeders do that, but since the snakes are very young, will that adversely affect them?

Thanks so much,
Snos
06/03/09  10:17pm

 #2016296


Peter54
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   Message To: Snosrap   In reference to Message Id: 2016006


 Milk Snakes, something new?

A brumation period somewhere between 8 and 20 weeks anually should always be provided to milksnake subspecies originating from geographic areas where such a climate is natural. The black milksnake is a mountainous subspecies found at altitudes exceeding 7000 feet, wich means that it should get a brumation period.

Wether this should include juveniles or not is a matter of opinion. I say brumate all individuals, even young ones, since that is what would happen to them in the wild. Choosing not to brumate just because the snake is young/little, could result in growing a snake with a weak genetic setup, making the whole breeding program weak.
06/04/09  01:09pm

 #2016299


Snosrap
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   Message To: Peter54   In reference to Message Id: 2016296


 Milk Snakes, something new?

Thanks Peter...
06/04/09  01:24pm

 #2025758


Snakeobsession
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   Message To: Snosrap   In reference to Message Id: 2016299


 Milk Snakes, something new?

I noticed that at the end of one of Peter54’s post that he said that he only picks up one of his well-tempered snakes twice a year?!?!?!?!?! please tell me this is not true amd that you do handle a great snake more than that. I would consider that neglect even if they don’t like to be handled they do need to be taken out of an enclosed area more than twice a year!!!!!!



06/20/09  10:28am

 #2026106


Repfanatic
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   Message To: Snakeobsession   In reference to Message Id: 2025758


 Milk Snakes, something new?

I’m sure he meant that he only handles him twice a year. I’m sure he picks him up more than that, but I wouldn’t consider moving a snake from one enclosure to another in order to clean its tank handling.

I handle all of my snakes very little. Maybe once a month. My evil okatee corn is still evil and all of my well tempered snakes are still well tempered. I also agree that you don’t need to handle a snake often in order to keep it handleable.
06/20/09  10:34pm

 #2027014


Peter54
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   Message To: Snakeobsession   In reference to Message Id: 2025758


 Milk Snakes, something new?

snakeobsession

Quote:

I would consider that neglect even if they don’t like to be handled they do need to be taken out of an enclosed area more than twice a year!



Just a couple of small questions: How do you validate this claim? On what kind of fact do you base your statement?

As Repfanatic stated, I don’t consider moving a snake around from one enclosure to another for cleaning, mating or other purposes as handling, since it takes a couple of seconds each time. Although I’m still very puzzled by what you say. In my experience the snake will do absolutely best if never ever disturbed at all, and yes, I really don’t handle my snakes very often. Some of them I handle a couple of times per year, others maybe 5 or 6 times.
06/22/09  01:19pm

 #2028104


Lovin2act
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   Message To: Peter54   In reference to Message Id: 2027014


 Milk Snakes, something new?

Yes snakeobsession please elaborate on your statement. We are not speaking of an animal that needs human interaction as a pet. Snakes are creatures that much prefer being left to themselves, and if housed and maintained properly need not be moved around or handled for its well being.
06/24/09  02:28pm

 #2028574


Russell55
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   Message To: Lovin2act   In reference to Message Id: 2028104


 Milk Snakes, something new?

I just wanted to put in my two cents concerning whether it’s benefitial to handle your snake or not. We take our Black Milk Snake out almost every day. We don’t do it so we can hold him, we do it so that he can crawl around and have some mental and sensory stimulation. I know some of you will think it’s crazy but we actually let him crawl around the house and explore. It’s fun to watch him "sniff out" interesting scents as well as see how he moves on different surfaces. He loves to get into dark places and can spend 15 or 20 minutes just exploring the laundry hamper. There are a few areas that we keep him away from due to the potential for getting into someplace from which it would be difficult to retrieve him, (like under the kitchen cabnets). To my mind, any animal that is restricted to a small encloser for most of its life will not be a very happy animal. It’s a quality of life situation for us. This is also why I try to give him a very nice and naturalistic encloser. Sure it’s harder to clean but it is much more like his natural environment that a box with some wood shavings and a water bowl. This is not an inditement against anyone who feels otherwise, just my personal opinion.



06/25/09  11:55am

 #2029225


Lovin2act
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   Message To: Russell55   In reference to Message Id: 2028574


 Milk Snakes, something new?

No offense taken there and I think that its cool that you do that for your guy! I just felt that the word neglect was a bit strong for people that let their animals be inside of their environment without much interruption. Many snakes stress to a large extent when they are handled, yet thrive when left alone. There are always exceptions of course...but I dont think saying the snake is neglected was quite the right way to put it up above.
06/26/09  10:04am

 #2030192


Peter54
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   Message To: Russell55   In reference to Message Id: 2028574


 Milk Snakes, something new?

Russel55
Well, as you surely already know, it’s very risky to draw conclusions like that concerning snakes reactions and behaviour, since they are almost always based on human behaviour.

Most wild snakes spend their entire life in a burrow and only roams around when hunting or looking for a mate during mating season. I don’t think that a snake could ever appreciate things like "mental and sensory stimulation" and for all we really know about snakes behaviour, their reactions could just as well be pure stress reactions.
06/28/09  06:11am

 #2033437


Russell55
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   Message To: Peter54   In reference to Message Id: 2030192


 Milk Snakes, something new?

Yes, making conclusions concerning snake behavior is risky. Even a Wildlife Biologist like myself can never really know what’s going in in the mind of an animal. However, your assertion that snakes only come out of their burrow to hunt, mate, etc. and that a snake couldn’t appreciate things like mental/sensory stimulation is just as risky, if not more so. People have been discounting the potential for animals to feel emotion for as long as we’ve been interacting with them. But to say that an animal that can feel fear, stress, sexual drive, satiation from hunger and the like and yet cannot feel curiosity, joy, etc. doesn’t make any sense to me. The degree of feelings may not be the same, but just as we get satisfaction from a good meal, sexual interaction, comfortable surrounding, etc. I think that animals, even snakes, do also. I think that there must be some sort of mental feedback loop re-enforcing an animals behavior. Does a snake feel "stimulated" when it is following a scent trail during the hunt? Does it feel comfort when it is basking in the morning sun? When it is mating? I believe that it must. That is a part of the "drive" that all creatures, human or otherwise, experience. Is it possible that I’m miss interpreting our snakes reaction to being out and loose in the house? Maybe so, but when we watch him exploring and tasting his surroundings I think it is obvious that he’s is enjoying himself.
07/03/09  02:57pm


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