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Willie1 Lell Willie1 Willie1 Lell Willie1 Willie1 Willie1 Biawak Shay_ Lell JPsShadow Willie1 JPsShadow Willie1 JPsShadow Lell Willie1 JPsShadow JPsShadow Biawak Shay_ Biawak Geckogirlemi Willie1 Biawak Willie1 Biawak Lell Willie1

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#1109853

Willie1
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Peachthroat sexing advice

Does anyone have any good points on sexing peachthroats? I googled it and could not come up with anything other than ultrasound sexing to check for being gravid. I’m assuming head size, tail base width?? I have one known male based on a hemipene eversion, but would like to determine the other, and know how to tell for future purchases. I can’t tell with the 2 by comparing as there is a huge size difference between the ones I have.

Thanx.

Warren

12/28/06 04:48pm

#1109981

Lell
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Message To: Willie1 In reference to Message Id: 1109853

Peachthroat sexing advice

hmmm i can show you pics of my female if it helps here it is

These are some males I saw at an Expo

To start off I would have to say that males have everything longer/bigger. Long kneck, head, limbs though I am not sure if females get bulkier though. Hope it helps goodluck

12/28/06 06:28pm

#1110003

Willie1
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Message To: Lell In reference to Message Id: 1109981

Peachthroat sexing advice

Subtle differences. My larger one has a thicker head/throat more like the ones at the expo. This is consistent with the smaller one who is male.

12/28/06 06:48pm

#1110008

Willie1
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Message To: Willie1 In reference to Message Id: 1110003

Peachthroat sexing advice

Looking at the resized pics back to back, maybe not. The head shape looks more like yours.

Warren

12/28/06 06:51pm

#1110023

Lell
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Message To: Willie1 In reference to Message Id: 1110008

Peachthroat sexing advice

Nice peach it does kind of look to be a female

12/28/06 07:04pm

#1110044

Willie1
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Message To: Lell In reference to Message Id: 1110023

Peachthroat sexing advice

Female is good. The person who sold it to me said it was probable female, but wasn’t sure. She has more experience with african monitors. She (he) does have some scarring behind her ear on the neck though. The young male seems to have a larger head shape, but it is hard to tell with the size difference.

12/28/06 07:19pm

#1111121

Willie1
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Message To: Willie1 In reference to Message Id: 1110044

Peachthroat sexing advice

This is the one who everted his hemipenes. Not a lot of head difference at this point, but a bit broader above the ears and behind the eyes.

Warren

12/29/06 02:04pm

#1112460

Willie1
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Message To: Willie1 In reference to Message Id: 1111121

Peachthroat sexing advice

Lell, on ther european forum, one of the members informed me the tails are dimorphic as well, with males having tall thin tails compared to the rounder tails on the females.

12/30/06 02:13pm

#1112524

Biawak
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Message To: Lell In reference to Message Id: 1109981

Peachthroat sexing advice

Lell, that is a very poor setup that your peachie is in. I hope that was only temporary.

12/30/06 03:12pm

#1112693

Shay_
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Message To: Lell In reference to Message Id: 1109981

Peachthroat sexing advice

lell, what makes you sure you have a female? did she lay eggs?

12/30/06 05:51pm

#1113582

Lell
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Message To: Shay_ In reference to Message Id: 1112693

Peachthroat sexing advice

Because the day I bought her, the person who sold it to me held her up and she everted what was a long smooth tube looking thing. He told me it was female and from what I read the female parts are smooth. Yeah the Peach is now in a 75 gallon aquarium untill I can build something else. With what Willie said - females having more rounded tails, i never heard of that but that’s a cool observation, how accurate is that? Mine seems to be very rotund.

12/31/06 02:23pm

#1114566

JPsShadow
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Message To: Lell In reference to Message Id: 1113582

Peachthroat sexing advice

Blind leading the blind???

Sexing those young monitors will be quite a task for anyone who has little experience with monitors yet alone the species at hand. Once monitors are adults they are very easy to sex by simply looking. Of course this would be via first hand not via a photo. Some photos may reveal sexes but at times it is not very accurate.

As was mentioned until you get eggs you really cannot make a solid statement of one being female.
None of the pictures posted show much as for sexing a monitor. They also all appear very young and not showing secondary characteristics.

The ways you sex one monitor can be used across the board, you may just have to add a few of the techniques together in order to see anything (note: not all species have spurs or preanal pores). Even then you still cannot be certain until something concrete is seen i.e. eggs, copulation resulting in offspring, or everting. Even with everting unless you know what your looking at you may easily confuse the two.

Good luck with your monitors

01/01/07 11:06am

#1114631

Willie1
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Message To: JPsShadow In reference to Message Id: 1114566

Peachthroat sexing advice

JPsShadow, that is the type of info I’m looking for. All I have found is brief descriptions of the animals, and really no info on dimorphism. What I have been informed of so far is the animals I have are too young to sex accurately, other than the male everting. The dimorphism happens after 24" and should be present by 36". Head /neck size as with most monitors, and the tall flat tail. Males may have a hemipenal bulge. There has been no mention of spurs or pores.

Warren

01/01/07 12:19pm

#1116064

JPsShadow
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Message To: Willie1 In reference to Message Id: 1114631

Its all about experience

Unless you have experience to use what you read it will do you no good or may lead you astray.

About everting and what to look for, typically a male will have a long thick tube that will have a flowered end, the female will have a shorter thinner tube that may appear rolled. Not all of the species look the same so you may find this as not much help. Some species are easier to tell then others as well. This way of sexing really only works if they have fully developed sex organs and if you get a full eversion. A partial eversion or an underdeveloped monitor may throw you off.

I wouldn’t ever go by numbers (sizes) to show when you can sex them. To many other things factor into the mix (ie. species, care, etc..).

Spurs can be seen on some small species (ie. ackies, storrs, etc.), some have preanal pores such as dumerils. By the time the head, neck size, body proportions, or jaw line come into play you should notice bulges. But again unless you have something to compare with you’ll be at a loss.

Your biggest friend in this situation will be experience.

01/02/07 11:02am

#1116114

Willie1
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Message To: JPsShadow In reference to Message Id: 1116064

Its all about experience

The males eversion was a light pink tube with a caulliflower looking head on it. I agree with the experience end of things, as I have uros and they are even harder to sex than a monitor- moroccans in particular. The only way to be sure is with good eggs. I can do a reasonable job with them, but its subtle. The initial post was not how to sex monitors in general, but is there anything specific to peachies, as I couldn’t find anything on them.

Warren

01/02/07 12:11pm

#1117387

JPsShadow
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Message To: Willie1 In reference to Message Id: 1116114

Its all about experience

Mature uros and monitors are both fairly easy to sex, it is the young ones that will leave you guessing especially with little to no experience in hand.

Hmmm I thought I already answered this but I will give it another shot. There are methods of sexing monitors. These methods are to help more so then to gurantee. You can use one or all of the variations across the board (species to species). However as I noted you cannot go by spurs or preanal pores if that particular species does not have them.

It seems to me your stuck in thinking peachies are special compared to other monitors and have there own indicators. Unfortunatly that would be wrong as they don’t even have spurs or preanal pores (which may or may not make it easier).

As I said your best friend is experience.

01/03/07 10:53am

#1117499

Lell
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Message To: JPsShadow In reference to Message Id: 1117387

Its all about experience

does anyone have pictures of a female everted?

01/03/07 01:11pm

#1117515

Willie1
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Message To: JPsShadow In reference to Message Id: 1117387

Its all about experience

JPs, you didn’t answer anything except call Lell blind, and myself blind. You also pointed out the same info as in the original question. Did you actually read it? I already know about the basics of sexing monitors. I was looking for other info. It seems you are trying to hijack this thread with nonsense about only experience can tell you how to sex a monitor or a uro for that matter. I can certainly see the dimorphism in the pics Lell provided, and the ones on the european forum. I also know what to look for in uro sexing, and 40% of the animals sold to me were incorrectly sexed by people who were SURE of their sex LOL. People THINK its easier than it is . Unless you have assembled breeding groups, you don’t know if you sexed them correctly. I am curious, since you say experience is the only way to know, how many breeding groups of uros and peachies do you have? I am quite OK with you not posting this drivel on my questions. I am only looking for useful info, not "I know more than you and won’t tell you." YOu speak to me as if I’m some sort of newbie, and I guess to monitors I am, in a way. There is a difference in being new to a species, and being new to reptiles in general. "Monitors are the highest end of reptile keeping. We keepers are GODS!!! All other keepers are below us!!!!!" I find you quite humorous actually. You avoided actually answering the question, and threw out insults. Good for you. I will now take my rightful place bowing at your feet.

01/03/07 01:23pm

#1117976

JPsShadow
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Message To: Willie1 In reference to Message Id: 1117515

If you knew then why did you ask??

Read my original posts over and over. I mention the ways to sex them (that was your question) is the same. then you asked again the ways to sex peachies. Which I thought I already answered that is why I said the samething pretty much all over again but spelled out there was no special way to sex them. Now it seems the way I answered or my answer does not fit what you wanted to hear.

BTW seeing differences in pictures will not help unless you know the animals in question are 100% sexed correctly. I could post tons of pictures of monitors that you may think one looks this or that but it does not mean they are.

I did not attack you other then my comment of saying the blind leading the blind. That was not meant personal it was meant as fact as in you asked how to sex them and someone with what they think is a female answered. IMO that is the blind leading the blind. Sorry if it hurt your feelings or you took it wrong.

I never asked you to bow to me, you seem to have issues. Low self esteem?? You see I truley believe only experience will help you. As you noted you have recieved uros that were improperly sexed, your experience showed you this. If you ask the seller I am sure their experience led them in the other direction. At which time you could tell them that with more experience they would be able to tell better, then they would probly say hey MR. I am no newbie and I will not bow to your feet blah blah blah. Funny how if someone thinks i am attacking them they also seem to have the same problem with others. hmm makes ya start to wonder doesn’t it?? Nah your right it probly really is just us (me).

I think your problem is you wanted me to say oh with peachies you simply turn them over and run your index finger under the arm pit and you can tell them apart. Sorry but that would be false and the reality is you will have to rely on the basics like all of the rest of us. Unless of course you or I or someone comes up with something later to tell us otherwise.

01/03/07 06:06pm

#1117986

JPsShadow
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Message To: Lell In reference to Message Id: 1117499

Its all about experience

Yes, I have pictures of both males and females everting, along with both adult males and females.

I’d post them but it seems my help is not wanted on this topic. Hope you get the answer that your looking for.

01/03/07 06:09pm

#1118092

Biawak
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Message To: JPsShadow In reference to Message Id: 1117986

Its all about experience

JP’s "blind leading the blind" comment was dead on. I almost posted the same comment myself. I can see how that might seem like an unnecessary and rude comment, but I kinda think it needed to be said.

Maybe we think that you, with no varanid experience, are a little arrogant to attempt things which even those of us with more experience find challenging.

I mean come on, you are just starting out with monitors and hoping to breed jobiensis. Sheesh and I thought I was arrogant.

01/03/07 07:08pm

#1118122

Shay_
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Message To: Biawak In reference to Message Id: 1118092

Its all about experience

i’m not sure arrogant is the right word. if you like the species and you keep them, you might as well try to breed them. being new to monitors, success my be unlikely and can even be seen as irresponsible to experiment with WC animals when there are plenty of CB animals to pop your cherry with.

willie i would suggest reading up on the whole indicus complex to gain ideas on what peach throats are all about. i don’t think they’ve been studied as much as many other monitors (no one breeding them may be evidence of that), and you may not be able to find all the answers you want. you can start by reading Eric Piankas "Varanoid Lizards of the World" and go from there
cheers

01/03/07 07:27pm

#1118141

Biawak
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Message To: Shay_ In reference to Message Id: 1118122

Its all about experience

No, I really think it is the perfect word.

No varanid experience, yet he thinks that he going to learn to sex jobiensis and then breed them. If he does that, he would most likely be the only one in North America doing so.

Good luck with that.

01/03/07 07:38pm

#1118185

Geckogirlemi
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Message To: Biawak In reference to Message Id: 1118141

Its all about experience

yeah newbies should all know they are stupid. I know I do. :)

01/03/07 08:05pm

#1118186

Willie1
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Message To: Shay_ In reference to Message Id: 1118122

Its all about experience

I have some books on my wish list and will track them down. Thanx for the suggestion.

Look, you guys seem to think varanids are some kind of holy grail with reptiles. I keep uros, which are more difficult to keep and breed than many varanids. There is less captive bred success with uros than any of the dwarfs. I see ackies as a step down in challenge, and peachies as a step across or laterally. I would see tree monitors as a step up. I will likely make some mistakes during incubation, or in getting the perfect soil, but the basics are in place. I can guarantee, the peaches have been way easier to get eating on their own than even the easiest of my uros LOL.

From what I have read and experienced, poor varanid success can be blamed on a few things. Temps were too low, food was insufficient, and space was insufficient. With correcting these parameters, animals start cycling and breeding. My ackies are breeding. My peachies are eating every day. With a proper enclosure, privacy, and mimmicking the natural seasons, there should be success, if even going that far is necessarry. I am willing to play with rainy/dry seasons, as well as temp fluctuations if it is necessarry. I don’t see this as rocket science. Uros are hard to pair up without aggression. My ackies were easy in comparison. I just don’t get the superior attitude of monitor keeping.

Now where I think you guys miss the boat is I have worked with many imported animals in the past and would never consider something such as a peachthroat if I didn’t have medical training (in people), access to antibiotics, antiparasitic meds, saline, dextrose, and vitmin B injections, as well as the training to know how and when to use them (injections, enemas, and oral suspensions.) I have dosing formulas, and a wealth of experience in animal recovery. I would suspect I have more training and experience in those areas than most members of this forum. I may stand corrected here, but I doubt it. What you see as arrogant or irresponsible simply is not. My forray into uros was irresponsible, but I learned quickly, and thankfully only lost one animal. This is why I went with peachthroats rather than tree monitors. It was not impulse, but informed. I would not spend a couple thousand dollars on a project I did not think I could keep alive LOL. I am looking for increasing challenges in care, and unfortunately, I think I will have to look a bit higher up on the chain within a year, from what I am seeing right now. I think monitors, THEN uros would have made more sense in terms of difficulty.

Warren

01/03/07 08:05pm

#1118351

Biawak
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Message To: Willie1 In reference to Message Id: 1118186

Its all about experience

Quote:
I don’t see this as rocket science.

You’re right. Monitor keeping is an art, not a science.

Oh, and a lot of hard work too.

01/03/07 09:27pm

#1118430

Willie1
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Message To: Biawak In reference to Message Id: 1118351

Its all about experience

Quote:
You’re right. Monitor keeping is an art, not a science.

Funny, I thought biology was a science. Silly me. I stand corrected.

Warren

01/03/07 10:09pm

#1118495

Biawak
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Message To: Willie1 In reference to Message Id: 1118430

Its all about experience

I don’t follow you. Do you think biologists have the most success with keeping monitors?

01/03/07 11:02pm

#1118504

Lell
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Message To: Willie1 In reference to Message Id: 1118430

Its all about experience

I don’t understand whats wrong with breeding peachies as your first attempt to breeding monitors. I don’t feel like spending close to 1,000$ on Ackies. I think I have obtained alot of information on breeding especially from Rob Faust first hand. Willie and I didn’t really ask about general sexing techniques, but rather specific, and as with most varanids alot of them have different traits from species to species. At a recent reptile expo I did come across a Peach Throat for 100$, in which case I knew was 99% sure was male just by observing him, and was ocnfirmed by the vendor, because it was a similar size as my female, except the head was longer, legs were wider, and it did look somewhat different. The specimen was the same locality even. One person I can turn to is Mike Stefani, someone who HAS successfully bred Peachers.

01/03/07 11:10pm

#1118507

Willie1
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Message To: Biawak In reference to Message Id: 1118495

Its all about experience

If I comment on this it will never end. This is just a personal conflict now. I’m done. When you calm down, re read what you just posted.

Warren

01/03/07 11:12pm

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