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 Member  Message

 #1717014


Toki99
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 Pictures of toki and his cage

hey so for those who think im a lier here are pics of toki my water monitor and his set up there will be more dirt added soon.
here he is and his cage


and lunch


take er easy
kirk
04/26/08  02:59pm

 #1717023


Lepdford
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   Message To: Toki99   In reference to Message Id: 1717014


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Have you started on your next cage? You will be needing it VERY soon!

Cheers,
Chris
04/26/08  03:07pm

 #1717034


Toki99
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   Message To: Lepdford   In reference to Message Id: 1717023


 Pictures of toki and his cage

chris i am starting the next cage in a few weeks i know how fast monitors can grow i have worked with many take care
kirk
04/26/08  03:21pm

 #1717116


0wnz0r
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   Message To: Toki99   In reference to Message Id: 1717034


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Quote:

hey so for those who think im a lier here are pics of toki my water monitor and his set up there will be more dirt added soon.
here he is and his cage


No one said you were a liar. People said that your husbandry was seriously lacking, and it is. Your monitor is way too big for it’s enclosure, and you say you will add more substrate, even though it is obvious that you can’t fit more than 2 inches in there.

-Dean
04/26/08  05:47pm

 #1717251


Toki99
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   Message To: 0wnz0r   In reference to Message Id: 1717116


 Pictures of toki and his cage

im sorry but my monitor is not to big for its cage he is only 18 inches the cage is 2x4x2 he actually looks very small in the cage and is already stressed enough putting him in a larger cage would just stress him more.
also people did call me a liar saying it seemed fishy
kirk
04/26/08  08:34pm

 #1717252


Toki99
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   Message To: Toki99   In reference to Message Id: 1717251


 Pictures of toki and his cage

i forgot would you want to start drilling and adding a larger bank to add more substrate if your monitor was already stressed right out.
kirk
04/26/08  08:35pm

 #1717275


KAP10CAVY
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   Message To: Toki99   In reference to Message Id: 1717252


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Ok, I gotta ask.
What has the critter so stress?

Scott
04/26/08  09:00pm

 #1717419


Krusty
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   Message To: KAP10CAVY   In reference to Message Id: 1717275


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Toki - maybe show a picture of the lizard IN the cage sometime when it starts coming out. It seems that you’ve been talking about getting a Water monitor for a year and that cage is really pushing the minimum size for a 20" lizard. I’ve got full-grown 22" Ackies in a 5 ft long cage and I feel guilty that I don’t give them more space. That lizard is going to explode in size once it settles in and you will immediately be building something bigger. It just seems like you didn’t plan ahead very well for all the time you’ve put into getting this (soon to be) beast of a lizard.

The lizard does look healthy though.



04/26/08  10:42pm

 #1717489


KAP10CAVY
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   Message To: Krusty   In reference to Message Id: 1717419


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Quote:

The lizard does look healthy though.


Ummm huh????
Look at the way it’s sitting in his hand.
Looks stressed and scared to death, Krusty, I’m ashamed of you for missing that.
It it was alive and healthy, it would atleast be trying to hold on, if not escaping.
Sorry, that’s just what I see.

Scott
04/27/08  12:08am

 #1717505


DRZRider
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   Message To: Krusty   In reference to Message Id: 1717419


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Quote:

im sorry but my monitor is not to big for its cage he is only 18 inches the cage is 2x4x2



1-19-08 18 inches



4-15-08 in less than 3 months it is about 30 inches if not more



If the enclosure is not to little now, it will be in a month or two.

Ed




04/27/08  12:23am

 #1717699


Sdslancs
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   Message To: KAP10CAVY   In reference to Message Id: 1717489


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Quote:

Looks stressed and scared to death, Krusty, I’m ashamed of you for missing that.
It it was alive and healthy, it would atleast be trying to hold on, if not escaping.

Is it not possible for an otherwise ’healthy’ monitor, to feel stressed by certain situations, such as shipping/ a new environment/handling etc? He said it looks healthy, not that it isn’t stressed.
04/27/08  09:09am

 #1717703


Toki99
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   Message To: DRZRider   In reference to Message Id: 1717505


 Pictures of toki and his cage

hi everyone
his new cage is being built next week i just have to wait for my paycheck to come in to start the build and im thinking of going even bigger then 4x8.
but would putting a maybe 2 foot monitor in lets say a 5x10 not stress the crap out of it?

kirk



04/27/08  09:14am

 #1717730


Countryboy1221
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   Message To: Toki99   In reference to Message Id: 1717703


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Why would it stress it out? Would you get stressed out if you moved into a big room? And he wont gt stressed if you provide exactly what he needs, temps, humidity, multiple hiding places, etc...
04/27/08  09:55am

 #1717741


Krusty
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   Message To: Countryboy1221   In reference to Message Id: 1717730


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Scott - the kid just got the lizard and took a picture of it. Gimme a break. Yes, that is stressful, but everyone does that when they first get a new lizard. Look at Ed’s Salvator in a deli cup. Isn’t that stressful? My simple point was that it looks like he is starting with a well-fed and not dehydrated monitor. If he starts posting that the lizard is thowing up every time he holds it after eating ..... then tear into him. But you’ve got to be a little more "constructive" as the deal is done and he has the animal(despite 22 people on 2-3 different forums stating it was a bad idea over the last year). It’s pretty annoying to come on this forum and read bashing and ganging up on the younger kids. That is not what forums are for. Everyone starts this hobby as a beginner and some people can read what not to do, while others have to mess up themselves to understand what not to do.

So Toki - if you pick that lizard up a lot or constantly hover over that little cage it’s in, he’s going to freak out and not eat or ever come out. You have to leave it alone and sneak peeks at it without letting it know you’re around until it calms down. Sometimes when they get bigger they get over this, but not always. Welcome to monitors.

Big cages don’t cause stress. What the heck does that really mean? Do wild monitors never come out because the sky looks so vast and there are no plywood walls nearby? That’s the silliest comment I’ve ever read - seriously. Big cages with lots of places to hide = less stress.
04/27/08  10:23am

 #1717939


KAP10CAVY
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   Message To: Krusty   In reference to Message Id: 1717741


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Krusty, look at the picture again.
There is water dripping off it’s snout and I’m pretty sure people don’t ship lizards in water.
The picture was taken either after he took it out of his water bowl or he gave it a bath.
You know what I think about lizards in bathtubs, want to throw something in a bathtub, come grab one of my teenaged boys. hahaha

I also never understood this, "the cage is too big" thing.
Yes, if it’s wild caught, I will use a large rubbermaid tub for the first too weeks so I can observe and collect stool samples.
Then I put the critter in the biggest cage possible.

Toki, you have the lizard, nothing can be done about that except to give you some advice.
Check and recheck your temps and humidity.
Leave the critter alone other than changing water, offering food and spot cleaning.
Collect some rollie pollies/pill bugs and some night crawlers and you’ll spend less time cleaning.
Once it’s settled in, start tong feeding so it learns you’re not a threat.

Good Luck
Scott
04/27/08  01:56pm

 #1717962


Toki99
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   Message To: KAP10CAVY   In reference to Message Id: 1717939


 Pictures of toki and his cage

hi scott and krusty
that is exactly what i am doing i only open the cage when i need to feed and change water he ate 3 fuzzies already and some roaches but i was not aloud to watch
i thought that you where not supposed to put them in huge cages right off the bat or i would have made a larger cage.
but there will be one built next week
well thanks for the comments
kirk
04/27/08  02:25pm

 #1717995


Shiftylarry
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   Message To: Toki99   In reference to Message Id: 1717962


 Pictures of toki and his cage

I think a big cage is a problem for a small monitor, only if their are no hides. You can solve this easily by laying down thick leaf litter. That way the monitor can duck under whenever they are frightened.
04/27/08  02:53pm

 #1718274


Denial9945
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   Message To: Shiftylarry   In reference to Message Id: 1717995


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Toki,
Ive heard dirrent things from different keepers about putting small monitors in large cages. Some have told me its right because they need the space and others have told me to start small and work up. Ive heard putting them in smaller enclosures for a little while just so they can get use to your prescence. But then again ive heard put them in the biggest you can build for them. But whatever you choose good luck and have fun raising your monitor !

Danny



04/27/08  07:28pm

 #1718495


Toki99
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   Message To: Denial9945   In reference to Message Id: 1718274


 Pictures of toki and his cage

thank you
i was just worried that putting an already stressed monitor into a new enviroment would stress him out even more
please call me kirk
toki is my water monitor
thanks again
kirk
04/27/08  10:11pm

 #1718591


3240
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   Message To: Toki99   In reference to Message Id: 1718495


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Toki,

IMO you’re off to a good start. Let him settle in, start feeding, etc., before you make any attempts to handle him.

Large cages can be very difficult for hatchling (small) monitors in my experience. My hatchling Lace monitors go from hiding in hollow logs to brief periods of basking. I place fuzzies near the hollow logs and they disappear. I rarely see them at this time in their lives but they’re growing quickly and looking good. I have each of them in a 4’ x 2’ enclosure and would not want to go bigger at this point.


Get working on that next cage as he’ll grown incredibly fast.

Good luck!
04/28/08  12:24am

 #1718607


Sidbarvin
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   Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 1718591


 Pictures of toki and his cage

In my opiniom it’s not the large cages being difficult for small monitors, it’s the small monitors in large cages being difficult for the newer keepers. It makes it tougher for someone with already limited understanding of monitor behavior to monitor the monitor.
04/28/08  12:48am

 #1718796


3240
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   Message To: Sidbarvin   In reference to Message Id: 1718607


 Pictures of toki and his cage

I don’t agree Roger. Trying putting your hatchling Nile in an 8’ cage. You’ll find it’s more difficult to care for. These hatchlings do not use large cages as they much prefer to spend time hiding and eating.
04/28/08  09:49am

 #1718823


Nermie
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   Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 1718796


 Pictures of toki and his cage

my smaller nile seems to be fine in a 6 foot cage i see her at least 4 hours a day (mine is about 2 foot) (somewhere in the 23 to 29ish inch range)



04/28/08  10:27am

 #1718890


3240
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   Message To: Nermie   In reference to Message Id: 1718823


 Pictures of toki and his cage

I don’t consider a 6’ cage (how wide and tall?) to be large for a 29" nile. Also, 4 hours per day? That’s about right. Is the other 8 spent hiding?

Remember, in the wild these hatchlings/young monitors are very vulnerable. They spend an enormous amount of time hiding. A young Lace can live in a hollow tree/log rarely leaving and have plenty to eat in the form of insects/etc., that share his home. This is very difficult to replicate in captivity.

My hatchling Lace monitors, hatchling Kingorum, and hatchling Caudos spend the vast majority of their time in hiding occasionally coming out to bask and grab a roach or pinkie. I’m certain that these hatchlings would fail to thrive in an 8’ enclosure unless I put food very close to their hiding spots in which case they would be fine, but what’s the point of doing that? Or, I could load a large enclosure with insects.

I had a few Leopard geckos escape as hatchlings and they’ve taken up residence in the Croc and Lace cages. I see them occasionally and they’re huge. They’ve grown to full size in a 33’ x 15’ x 12’ enclosure. Why? Because this enclosure is loaded with roaches and crickets that have also escaped and established. A pair of Tokay geckos also resides in this enclosure. They have also flourished.

A hatchling monitor would also do well in this case (without the adults present). They would flourish for the same reason the geckos have flourished, food is available throughout the enclosure and in every nook and cranny. Now, take these same huge dimensions and sterilize it of free roaming and abundant insects. The geckos would long be dead even if I put a bowl of insects or a few pinkies in the corner of the cage. Hatchling monitors would also perish.

Don’t get me wrong, if Toki or anyone of you are willing to build a large hatchling enclosure and load it with insects they’ll do just fine. Is anyone willing to do that? Especially if the enclosure is in your home and you risk infestation? If so, go for it!

The tricky part is giving these hatchling/ young animals a decent heat gradient in a small enclosure. The cage must be large enough for a proper gradient or the animal will not flourish.

I’m not thrilled that Toki purchased a water monitor as he’s too young in my opinion. However, he did and I think he’s off to a reasonably good start. His first enclosure won’t last long but it appears to be sufficient for now. As long as Toki has the resources, money, to care for this animal I really do believe he’ll do a nice job. My concern is lack of stable income and housing with young people. Toki has the passion, hopefully he also has the resources.



04/28/08  12:14pm

 #1718946


Element
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   Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 1718890


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Hey guys,

I see valid points on both sides here. I can’t say which I agree with more or less based on the fact I’ve never owned a Monitor yet. I have done larger enclosures with snakes and smaller ones for others. But they are totally different.

3240,

Just out of curiosity may I please see a few pictures of this enclosure you speak of? Not that I don’t believe you but that sounds like an amazing enclosure. I just wish to see one of that magnitude if you have any or time to take some, please? Thanks in advance!

~Element
04/28/08  01:30pm

 #1718995


BTbandit
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   Message To: Element   In reference to Message Id: 1718946


 Pictures of toki and his cage

if your monitor is that stressed there is something wrong. i am not the best keeper by far but none of my monitors have been stressed by moves into new enclosures. they eat just fine, act normal and don’t hide. get everything dialed in and you shouldn’t have a stressed monitor. what has caused so much stress for it in the first place?
04/28/08  02:36pm

 #1719009


3240
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   Message To: BTbandit   In reference to Message Id: 1718995


 Pictures of toki and his cage

BT,

You’re a miracle worker! Any living creature is going to be stressed by a move to new quarters. You do not have enough experience to jump to any conclusions about stress. Have you ever had breeding cycles messed with do to a move?
04/28/08  02:58pm

 #1719010


3240
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   Message To: Element   In reference to Message Id: 1718946


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Element,

Just check this forum. I’ve posted dozens of posts with pictures.
04/28/08  02:59pm

 #1719018


BTbandit
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   Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 1719009


 Pictures of toki and his cage

well I never said i tried it with breeding cycles and unless you are making stuff up I don’t think he said that either. I never said I was perfect just telling it how it has happened to me. I didn’t jump to any conclusions I just said it how I have experienced it. So are you a mind reader to know I don’t have the experience? i love how you tell me I am jumping to conclusions when you are. well i guess I should say thanks for saying that so I know how you think now.



04/28/08  03:07pm

 #1719032


3240
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   Message To: 3240   In reference to Message Id: 1719010


 Pictures of toki and his cage

Here are some misc. pics. Forgive me as they’re all out of order. I have a large facility seperate from my home that is set up and designed specifically for reptiles. I have boiler systems, swamp coilers, etc., that allow me to control the environment. Recently, I missed a few lace eggs and the eggs hatched after 250 days on their own in the lace enclosure. This is total overkill but as you can see I’m very passionate about this hobby and have been blessed with the means to provide them with decent space.



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Sorry for such a lengthy post.
04/28/08  03:22pm
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