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 #1726970


Nermie
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 Any ideas on diet rehibilitation

im now very concernd destiney is slim to the point im starting to see ribs her cage is set up the levels and temps are a tad off(degree or two) she wil only eat a small amount of crickets(maybe 15) if i put more in they just drwon themselves. she is still active and alert i recently managed to drag( i woulda been better off pulling teeth from a croc then get husbandry answers from the orgional owner).

also the vet says she could possably have liver damage.

my questions are as follows
1. can a basicly all beef and dog food diet cause liver damage (he said she got ground beef, left over steak and wet dogfood for her meals).
2. how would i go about getting her to eat ive tried bloodied rodents ( ive done pokeing em with a pin makeing a small slit in the head) thawed the rodents throughly (they go from the freezer to the fridge the night before then thawd 20 to 30 mins in hot (not boilding) water).

i am still putting the crickets in the cage she wont touch roachs or grasshoppers she took a very small crayfish but wont take anymore she also wont try any sort of small fish.

i do know that niles do need time to settle in ive left the cage (minues ajusting light positioning) alone for over a month she has a established burrow (least id think so cause she constaly is comeing out of the fake plants in the cool end). but she is really looking thin now.





05/06/08  01:08pm

 #1727085


Sdslancs
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   Message To: Nermie   In reference to Message Id: 1726970


 Any ideas on diet rehibilitation

Is she eating 15 ’large’ crickets a day? If so, are you gutt loading the crap out of them before feeding to her? Also, if she’s constantly coming out of the cool end and not basking or spending time in the hot end, you may want to up your ambient temp. Did the vet worm her?



05/06/08  03:34pm

 #1727101


Nermie
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   Message To: Sdslancs   In reference to Message Id: 1727085


 Any ideas on diet rehibilitation

yea shes clear of worms.
i do gutload the crickets with chard and miner-all with d3.
she roams the whole cage and dose bask at the cooler end (middle(75w reptibask bulb) she dosent seem to keen about the mvb.

do you think she could possably not like the combo uvb/heat bulb?




05/06/08  03:49pm

 #1727135


Sdslancs
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   Message To: Nermie   In reference to Message Id: 1727101


 Any ideas on diet rehibilitation

I’d feed your crickets a higher protein feed. Cricket Power you can buy from petstore, or even give them a thawed pinky to eat. If crix are all she’s eating, you’d best make the most of them. Chard isn’t much more than water and are you ’dusting’ or feeding them with the supplement? MVBs are not good to use in close proximity. Great in larger cages, but not good in small ones.
15 large crix a day will barely keep her going, so better if you can get her to take the rodents. Are they small enough for her? Are you leaving them by her burrow/hide overnight?



05/06/08  04:08pm

 #1727170


Nermie
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   Message To: Sdslancs   In reference to Message Id: 1727135


 Any ideas on diet rehibilitation

the pinkies are about the size of 2 large crickets i think im gonna try to live feed today and see how she takes to that.
i leave them on the edge of her "grove" (she like sto hang out burried under my fake plants) and they are always in the same place the next day



05/06/08  04:40pm

 #1727241


Sidbarvin
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   Message To: Nermie   In reference to Message Id: 1727170


 Any ideas on diet rehabilitation

Ian, don’t get sidetracked here. This is a basic husbandry issue unless there is some sort of underlying, preexisting health condition. FORGET ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE FEEDING, it has nothing to do with food preference, gut loaded crickets or ambient temps. A healthy monitor will eat just about anything that moves if it’s hungry. If the vet visit checked out OK, that’s good.

Let’s start over with the very basics. Describe your setup in detail now that you’ve made changes. Post clear pictures from different angles. The sooner you get the setup straightened out the sooner you can stop mucking with it. Then you will be able to leave the thing alone and let the critter settle in. You are creating a roller coaster of stress as long as you keep changing the temps. Many niles don’t take to this well at all and it could very well be the main issue.

Firs off, be sure you have provided hides throughout the cage in hot, cool and areas in between. Use a piece of bark or wood as a basking site as it will be able to burrow under it and raise its’ body temperature in seclusion if it so chooses. Get the basking site to a temperature of 140-145. This way the temp under the bark is still pretty high. If it chooses to bask in the open, and that temp is to high, it will find a position not directly under the light off to the side where the temperature is to it’s liking.

About the UV bulb. Unless someone who has used them successfully for a long period chimes in with some input as to how to use it properly, I would ditch it and stick with the halogen floods.

There are some very successful long term keepers here who have actually assisted in bringing monitors back from the gates of death. There are others here who seem to believe that by regurgitating information they have read on the fora or chiming in with their opinions they are actually helping. In reality they only confuse issues. They may have healthy monitors of their own but have never had the experience of dealing with adversity before. They lack understanding and have no business advising others. Krusty, Crocdoc, Kap10Kavy, DZRider, and Albigcrazy, to name a few are quite knowledgeable and experienced.



05/06/08  05:47pm

 #1727247


Krusty
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   Message To: Nermie   In reference to Message Id: 1727170


 Any ideas on diet rehibilitation

To answer the first question - yes, eating beef and steak trimmings or dogfood is extremely high in animal fats and over time will lead to fatty liver disease without question. The lizards don’t usually see 2 or 3 years old fed this diet mainly. Hopefully, that’s not what’s going on. "Deworming" can cause anorexia (not eating) for a short time after the antibiotics as it messes up the intestinal flora (the good bacteria in the gut). Be sure the lizard is warm enough and hydrated enough #1. If it eats 2 dozen crickets per day while not feeling well for a week, that’s OK. Just gutload/increase the nutrition of the insects as advised above. Live pinky mice are usually irresistible to monitors.
05/06/08  05:49pm

 #1727258


Mightymouse06
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   Message To: Nermie   In reference to Message Id: 1727170


 Any ideas on diet rehibilitation

I agree with SDS’ idea. I’m not sure what would be the best diet for gut-loading the crickets, but most of the crickets sold in pet stores are going to be hollow shells unless you give them a nutritious diet too. If thats all she’s eating, then you’d better pack as much as you can into each one.

If you haven’t already tried it, offer a live pinky. I mostly feed my monitor F/T rodents and chicks, but occasionally he refuses to take the prey. He’ll turn his head away or just walk right past the food dangling from the tongs again and again. When this happens I just put a live mouse in the enclosure, and its like instinct takes over. I’ve also tried feeding F/T prey until he is full. Even after he is full and not showing any interest in the F/T food items I’m offering, if I toss in a live mouse that feeding response kicks in again and he’ll eat it. Maybe that little bit of movement will trigger a feeding response in your little nile.

Good luck,
Marino
05/06/08  06:03pm

 #1728389


Nermie
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   Message To: Mightymouse06   In reference to Message Id: 1727258


 Any ideas on diet rehabilitation

well she is eating now she downed 5 live mice fuzzies and is now hanging out in her basking spots (she moves from one to the other from time to time).

ill get some clear photos this afternoon but she did not hesitate for a moment at eating the live little mice.



05/07/08  05:32pm

 #1728418


Sidbarvin
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   Message To: Nermie   In reference to Message Id: 1728389


 Any ideas on diet rehabilitation

Great News Ian! Now just leave the little critter alone and let it settle in.

Will it accept food from tongs?
05/07/08  05:54pm

 #1728439


Sdslancs
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   Message To: Nermie   In reference to Message Id: 1728389


 Any ideas on diet rehabilitation

That’s great news! now maybe you can relax a little. 5 fuzzies all at once?!
05/07/08  06:08pm

 #1728454


Krusty
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   Message To: Sdslancs   In reference to Message Id: 1728439


 Any ideas on diet rehabilitation

Usually a good sign when the appetite comes back. Glad to hear it.
05/07/08  06:21pm

 #1729068


Nermie
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   Message To: Krusty   In reference to Message Id: 1728454


 Any ideas on diet rehabilitation

i am relieved and no she is not a tong feeder yet but i am makeing a habit of putting them near here little forest with tongs and i see her watching me so perhaps in time she will.
05/08/08  09:08am


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