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 #2033238


Recka
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 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

How big should Savannah Monitors be at what ages?

I got my Savannah monitor at a local pet store that told me they would never order them, because they don’t sell monitor lizards. Anyway, its a really small pet store and on the label it said she was born in February. And I bought her in late March.

She was awefully tiny when i got her,



That was the first picture i ever took of her.

I have her in a 90 gallon custom built tank, and I have a 180 custom built tank waiting in the wings until she gets bigger, but that’s just the thing, i know she is growing but not much at all.

Her basking temp is 110, her ( I don’t know the sex but I just call it a her) cool side is 75, she has a lot of hiding areas. She is extremely active! She walks around her cage all day long.

As for food

She gets Silkworms, i try to provide them as a staple, crickets, hornworms (She loves the blue ones), butterworms, and I will hopefully be starting a Dubia colony soon and that will be her staple. Her appetite is fierce! She would eat up to 10 small silkworms, in one sitting ( I feed her 2-3 times a day, small meals, i heard it was better to feed her more small meals then less big meals). I give her up to 5 large crickets, when crickets are on the menu. She is ravenous! She LOVES food!!

Her meals get dusted 5-6 days out of the week

I haven’t handled her much yet, i took her out of her cage once about 2 months ago and that proved to be stressful on all of us so i haven’t taken her out other then that, i want to wait until she gets a little older to try again.

But my point is she just doesn’t seem to grow much, the place I got her from is a less then reputable pet store, they didn’t have her there for more then 4 days, cause i frequent them often.

From the time i got her to now she maybe, MAYBE grew 3 inches, now i am really bad with measurements, so give or take an inch, but i don’t think its any more then 3 inches.

Is that a normal growth rate?

I am ok if she ends up being a smaller monitor, that’s fine with me, i would like her to be big but if its just not in the cards then that is fine. I’m just concerned.

I try and look at other peoples postings and judge the size of their monitors and its age and she just seems to be smaller.

My beardie ( i know they are completely different but), he grew SO fast! He ate everything she is eating from day one, just like her, and he went from a 3 inch baby to a 19 inch 10 month old, she jsut doesn’t seem to be growing as well.

Should i be concerned about this or am i just paranoid.

I don’t mean to sound repetitive, i posted once before with a question like this and didn’t get any useful replies, but as time is going on, i am getting more and more concerned that she isn’t growing properly.

I really appreciate any input.



This picture was taken about 3 weeks ago, I am going on a weekend trip, so i won’t be back until Monday ( Don’t worry I have someone looking after the animals), ill try and post a more recent photo then.

Thanks for reading!



07/03/09  07:05am

 #2033277


Manchild
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  Message To: Recka   In reference to Message Id: 2033238


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

If set up properly they can grow quick,your keeping him in a tank what are you using for a top?Your basking temp is low it need to be 120+.If you can post some pictures your set up we would be able to help you a little better

greg



07/03/09  09:28am

 #2033293


Randy Clark
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  Message To: Manchild   In reference to Message Id: 2033277


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

I’m not a vet so don’t quote me but I have heard that dusting too much can cause some bone growth problems as well,I know too much can be worse than none at all,I dust mine twice a week with calcium and twice a week with vitamin dust.



07/03/09  10:17am

 #2033303


Philippe
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  Message To: Manchild   In reference to Message Id: 2033277


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Quote:

If set up properly they can grow quick



no, if you give em unproper food(to much rodents, chicks or meat+calcium...) they can grow quick.



07/03/09  10:29am

 #2033324


Manchild
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  Message To: Philippe   In reference to Message Id: 2033303


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Proper husbandry has a lot to do with growth rates

greg



07/03/09  11:15am

 #2033335


Philippe
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  Message To: Manchild   In reference to Message Id: 2033324


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Quote:

Proper husbandry has a lot to do with growth rates



Not really. look at kaffir’s lizards.;)





07/03/09  11:51am

 #2033337


RepticZ
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  Message To: Philippe   In reference to Message Id: 2033303


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Quote:

no, if you give em unproper food(to much rodents, chicks or meat+calcium...) they can grow quick.



What do you mean by that? How would it be to much if the monitor increases in size and weight without being obese? are you saying feeding the items you listed above isnt the best to feed?



07/03/09  11:54am

 #2033352


Philippe
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  Message To: RepticZ   In reference to Message Id: 2033337


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Quote:

are you saying feeding the items you listed above isnt the best to feed?



exactly! more invertrebates is preferable.
and keeping ’em in wet and hot cages all year long, is not a proper husbandry IMO. that’s not natural.



07/03/09  12:05pm

 #2033357


Deadvenom-x
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  Message To: Philippe   In reference to Message Id: 2033352


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Quote:

Not really. look at kaffir’s lizards.;)



Plays the "death" music

dunnn dunnn dunndunn dun dun dundun dun dun dun dunnnnnnnnn



07/03/09  12:26pm

 #2033370


Mxracer
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  Message To: Deadvenom-x   In reference to Message Id: 2033357


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Quote:

Quote:

Not really. look at kaffir’s lizards.;)



Plays the "death" music

dunnn dunnn dunndunn dun dun dundun dun dun dun dunnnnnnnnn



Lol, philip do you also no that she has had 4 sav’s so far and they keep dying each time one dies she gets another and say’s its the same one.



07/03/09  12:48pm

 #2033389


Philippe
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  Message To: Mxracer   In reference to Message Id: 2033370


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

haha yes I no his "satanic metal husbandry"







07/03/09  01:34pm

 #2033423


Manchild
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  Message To: Philippe   In reference to Message Id: 2033389


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

If you follow dunes husbandry methods you will have a dead lizard.I have two monitors that have been feed a variety of foods mice and chicks included nether animal is obese.It is all in how you keep them,there is so much more to it than just keep them hot and fed.

greg



07/03/09  02:29pm

 #2033433


Joe Kahn
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  Message To: Manchild   In reference to Message Id: 2033423


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Being almost everyone on this forum has raised up healthy monitors, that grew rapidly,by feeding pinkies, then mice, if I was you I would go with that and a basking area about 130 degrees.At the other end of the enclosure it should be about 80-85.Any crickets fed, should have calcium powder on them.



07/03/09  02:54pm

 #2033445


Mxracer
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  Message To: Joe Kahn   In reference to Message Id: 2033433


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

I belive 80F is to warm for a cool side. 70F is much better. also Its a savannah so mice should be offered not so much. Roaches and crickets are more important in a sav’s diet along with any other insect.



07/03/09  03:07pm

 #2033448


Constrictor
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  Message To: Mxracer   In reference to Message Id: 2033445


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

I also think 70 is a better cool side that way it has a larger temp gradiant to go to. Also i wouldnt feed an all mice diet to a savannah. Mine is on a roach diet with mice every few days. Its about 2’ and 1-2lbs 8 months old. It seems to be working for me and my monitor



07/03/09  03:14pm

 #2033465


Sdslancs
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  Message To: Mxracer   In reference to Message Id: 2033370


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Quote:

philip do you also no that she has had 4 sav’s so far and they keep dying each time one dies she gets another and say’s its the same one.



Is that true, or are you just spreading malicious gossip? I thought their new savs had different names and are doing much better than when they first started out?

You shouldn’t tell lies about people, no matter how much of a grudge you have against them. I get hate mail from them all the time, but it doesn’t make me want to drop to their level, or become another brainless, lying bandwagonner. .

When your monitors died, you replaced them, didn’t you?



07/03/09  03:47pm

 #2033474


Mxracer
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  Message To: Sdslancs   In reference to Message Id: 2033465


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

I havn’t replaced any monitor. But I think kaffir is the worse thing to ever happen to the monitor world. So many people are on her side and thinks shes god.



07/03/09  04:23pm

 #2033482


Philippe
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  Message To: Manchild   In reference to Message Id: 2033423


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Quote:

I have two monitors that have been feed a variety of foods mice and chicks included nether animal is obese.


and??? i read somwhere on the forum that’s almost impossible to feed an adult savannah monitor with only insects based food.that’s just ridiculus. bicause if your husbandry was so perfect as you pretend , your monitor will be activ just few month in a year.(that corespond to a wet/humid season in the wild) so the rest of the year you got the time to breed tons of insects .the wet season is betwen the dry season ( hot and dry enclosure with humid hids/burrows) and the cold season(brumation). the speed growth rate is just the result of the wrong husbangry and wrong high proteinic food(IMO). it make sens why wild savannahs monitors reproduce more than captivs.;)

Quote:

there is so much more to it than just keep them hot and fed.


that’s exactly my point. to much food and the same temp/humidity gradiant all year long may be really bad in the long run.


Quote:

Being almost everyone on this forum has raised up healthy monitors, that grew rapidly,by feeding pinkies, then mice, if I was you I would go with that and a basking area about 130 degrees.


I am one of those people. now i gotta 1 year and 40" monitor. that’s too fast and unnatural. my fault.
I didn’t repect the seasons and the right diet.


sorry.bad english



07/03/09  04:40pm

 #2033487


Silentjt
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  Message To: Philippe   In reference to Message Id: 2033482


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Quote:

bicause if your husbandry was so perfect as you pretend

If your husbandry is as good as you "pretend" lets see some evidence.

Pictures of your animals, cages etc.

Describe how you accomplish your seasonal cycles.

Start a new thread rather than us hijacking this one.


Jesse



07/03/09  04:57pm

 #2033490


Sdslancs
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  Message To: Philippe   In reference to Message Id: 2033482


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Quote:

the speed growth rate is just the result of the wrong husbangry and wrong high proteinic food(IMO). it make sens why wild savannahs monitors reproduce more than captivs.;)



I would tend to agree with Philippe on this. Too much emphasis is put on, how big they can get and how fast they can acheive it. I’ve got caught up in that too, but now think it might not the best thing for them, in the long run.

There’s proof that a restricted calorie diet, can lead to longevity and healthy cell growth, in mammals/humans and I wonder if the same goes for reptiles?



07/03/09  05:00pm

 #2033491


Constrictor
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  Message To: Philippe   In reference to Message Id: 2033482


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Yes its possible to feed an adult savannah monitor insects all year long. They can do alot of mice and rats but they shouldnt be fed every day for savannahs since in the wild they eat alot more insects than rodents and birds. It doesnt hurt to have different temps throughout the year since in the summer it will naturally be warmer and colder in the winter. Also you cant tell how old a monitor is by its size. My female was ch in dec and is 2’ or so. I have seen a 2 year female that was 26" that wasnt taken care of that good. It depends on the conditions its kept in and how its fed



07/03/09  05:02pm

 #2033492


Manchild
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  Message To: Philippe   In reference to Message Id: 2033482


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

In theory you are correct with the wet and dry seasons.The op is asking about a baby monitor and in reptiles they do most of there growing in the first year it is a survival instinct grow or be eaten I THINK 2-3feet in the first year is fine.As fare as an all insect diet if you can do it that’s great,but trying to feed an all insect diet to an adult savanna is going to be tough for the average keeper.As long as your temps and humidity ranges are fine its not going to hurt to add mice or chicks a few times a week but I think you should have a verity of vertebrae and invertebrate

greg



07/03/09  05:02pm

 #2033494


Sdslancs
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  Message To: Silentjt   In reference to Message Id: 2033487


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Quote:

Start a new thread rather than us hijacking this one.

How is it hijacking? The subject is about growth rate and his comments are in line with that.



07/03/09  05:03pm

 #2033512


Silentjt
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  Message To: Sdslancs   In reference to Message Id: 2033494


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Re-read my post


Jesse



07/03/09  05:55pm

 #2033571


Philippe
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  Message To: Silentjt   In reference to Message Id: 2033512


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

jess ,I didn’t pretend anything about my actual husbandry

Quote:

I am one of those people. now i gotta 1 year and 40" monitor. that’s too fast and unnatural. my fault.
I didn’t repect the seasons and the right diet.



like almost all the new hobbyist on the forum i just folowed a "how to not kill your monitor protocol"(whole prays, deep dirt,130+ basking..) my monitor is ok, active not obese ect.. the only problem is that he is too big for his age. actually i’m working to solve some technic problems, like cooling a big enclosure ect and i gonna start a new group of exanthematicus. don’t worry i willl not hijack this thread with my staff and progress ;) sorry everybody if my post was arrogant . (my frenchy english don’t allow me to manage all the language subtilitys) i post here juste because I don’t believe that the growth rate is a result of a proper husbandry ( it’s quiet a opposit if we refer to the wild animals).

Quote:

I THINK 2-3feet in the first year is fine.


yea but it takes almost 4 years or so (if i remember correctly) to the wild ones to rich 3 feet. in nature the biggest specimens are allways the oldest. I just can’t understand why we have to wait a year or so before starting the season cycling process. note: im not telling to people to make brumate their 5 inches babys. just avoid to much high protein food (including whole rodents, chics) and maybe start thinking about brumation at 6-8 month old or somthing similar.

Phil



07/03/09  08:10pm

 #2033592


Mxracer
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  Message To: Philippe   In reference to Message Id: 2033571


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Quote:

I am one of those people. now i gotta 1 year and 40" monitor. that’s too fast and unnatural. my fault.
I didn’t repect the seasons and the right diet.



That’s great, but in no way to fast. If a monitor can achieve 40 inches in one year, why stop it or try to stop it from growing as much and as fast as it can. I think if they weren’t suppose to grow so big so fast they wouldn’t. Like us people we grow over the years and have spurts some times. But monitors grow daily, weekly, to monthly and to over the months. When young they grow so fast its amazing, when I had the Argus I could see it growing before my eye’s. In one month its grew a little bit more then half a foot. Now to me that’s great. A monitor can only be a monitor and will grow the way its suppose to if you provide the proper caging, temps, humidity, foods, and the amount of it.

-Terry



07/03/09  09:22pm

 #2033763


Manchild
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  Message To: Mxracer   In reference to Message Id: 2033592


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

In the wild they would grow as fast as possible the bigger lizard will have the best territory more mates more access to food and become more dominant



greg



07/04/09  10:49am

 #2033780


Sdslancs
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  Message To: Manchild   In reference to Message Id: 2033763


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

It’s a bit arrogant to presume you’re doing a better job than nature does. You can’t replicate the whole picture, in a friggin’ hot box! Yeah, you can shovel all the food it can eat, down it’s throat, without making it work for it! How is that better than having to use it’s mind and all the tools nature gave it to hunt and yes, go a little hungry sometimes? Makes for a much more interesting specimen, IMO.

What’s the point of having these captives so highly charged on hi pro diets? They’re not in training for the Olympics. Except for the few that do have extra sized enclosures, most are just sitting around in hot boxes, getting fat!



07/04/09  11:46am

 #2033829


Manchild
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  Message To: Mxracer   In reference to Message Id: 2033592


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Sorry, No Message.



07/04/09  01:12pm

 #2033865


RepticZ
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  Message To: Sdslancs   In reference to Message Id: 2033780


 Savannah Monitor size to age ratio?

Quote:

You can’t replicate the whole picture, in a friggin’ hot box!


Maybe most of us cant replicate every single aspect in a "hot box". it’ll be hard to make it rain in there i guess.. if that’s your point? However we can provide proper temps, and humidity levels. We can provide a day/night or natural temperature drops in the enclosure with even a simple dimmer. And we also can provide very similar natural habitats also, such as there substrate, grass/shrubs logs puddles rocks prey insects and even parasites if we want.

Quote:

How is that better than having to use it’s mind and all the tools nature gave it to hunt and yes, go a little hungry sometimes?


I think most of our monitors do go hungry for a period of time no? I mean, probably not as bad as the ones in nature but whats the point? Also it does seem like alot of people here do allow it to hunt, and use its "tools". Almost all of us dont offer a dead rat in a little doggy bowl. But we have the choice to hide prey items around its habitat giving it a chance to hunt. And for getting fat in its hot boxes. I dont think so, unless you have the petstore package. news paper, tank, screen, ect ect



07/04/09  02:03pm
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