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 #2233453


Otis425
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 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.

Well our 3 year old savannah monitor died. It was odd and unexpected. He went off food. for about 2 weeks. He would just bask and sleep. I was hesitant to take him to the vet because we don’t have a reptile vet in this area. I didn’t want to pay some veterinarian, that has no experience with reptiles, a bunch of money just to tell me he didn’t know what it was. I didn’t think anything was wrong he was still pooping and drinking plenty of water. I thought may be he just needed to clean his system out. I did notice that while he was basking he would swallow a lot. As if something was stuck in his throat. I had noticed this in the months prior to this incident but thought nothing of it since he was still very active and eating well. After 2 weeks of this behavior he retreated to his hide and we didn’t see him for two days. That’s when my wife noticed a smell coming from his enclosure. So I did some investigating and found him dead. There was some sort of growth hanging out of his mouth it look like and organ or something. My son was heart broken. He didn’t want us cutting his savannah monitor up so a necropsy was out of the question. Is it possible he had some defect or a growth of some kind? I don’t know what it could have been.
08/20/11  11:24am

 #2233457


Sulfurboy1o3
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   Message To: Otis425   In reference to Message Id: 2233453


 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.

I’m really sorry for your loss. Tell you son to keep his head up.
08/20/11  11:53am

 #2233533


Crocdoc
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   Message To: Sulfurboy1o3   In reference to Message Id: 2233457


 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.

The only way we can help solve the riddle is by getting a complete description of your monitor’s set-up. What sort of enclosure, basking spot temperature, what sort of substrate etc. Even better, a photo of the setup would be great.



08/20/11  06:28pm

 #2233571


Otis425
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   Message To: Crocdoc   In reference to Message Id: 2233533


 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.

I’ve posted numerous photos on this forum here they are (again) if you have missed them.





Basking spot 120F-135f, depending on where you check it. Ambient temp 90f-99f. 19 inches of substrate. I’m no stranger to this forum. I have always followed all the advice I have been given. That is why his death is kind of a mystery.





08/21/11  12:08am

 #2233586


Crocdoc
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   Message To: Otis425   In reference to Message Id: 2233571


 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.

Hi Otis, I can’t recall everyone’s user nick, the species they keep and their set-up, so I apologise for making you post it again. What did its diet consist of?

The other question that needs to be asked - are you absolutely sure it was a male?
08/21/11  06:04am

 #2233592


Mdf
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   Message To: Otis425   In reference to Message Id: 2233453


 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.



Sorry for your loss, there’s’ a number of us got them to 3 years & then they’ve died for some reason, crocdoc is asking for all of the details because there might a pattern to these deaths. It may confirm what we know already or maybe give us some other lead, on the bright side you got you sav past the 1 year mark & many don’t! :)




08/21/11  11:44am

 #2233602


Otis425
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   Message To: Mdf   In reference to Message Id: 2233592


 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.

Thanks everyone for the condolences.
I’m pretty sure he was male. He everted his hemipenes on more than one occasion. Once when I picked him up, and again in the bath when he was defecating. I had changed his diet a couple of times. When he was young we had him on crickets and lobster roaches with a few pinks. He wouldn’t touch the super worms. When he got a little bigger we fed less crickets and more raw chicken, eggs and rodents. Like so many before I had been given the wrong information from my pet shop. When I found this forum, About 2 years ago, and started to read all the info on diets and housing I changed everything. That is when I built the large enclosure and changed his diet. I started feeding him less rodents and more varied items. On occasion he would still get raw chicken dusted with Calc/D3 or a mouse. But I added Snails, Earthworms, Eel, Prawns, and super worms. I would just throw a hundred super worms in his cage, and he would dig them up. Once in a while they would turn into beetles and he would eat those as well. The only thing he ate every week was one hopper mouse and 1/2 cup of raw chicken. The rest of the week he never ate the same thing. I know I should have been feeding more insects. I had a hard time getting him to eat Crickets or Roaches. I probably ruined him early on, when he was a juvenile, by feeding too many mice .

In my previous post I had forgot to add that we moved him back into his smaller enclosure about a week before this happened. We are moving and I had to tear apart the large enclosure. The smaller enclosure is 2x4x2. I set a piece of flag stone on some blocks and poured the dirt over the top of it for a hide. He only had 8 inches of substrate. A large tub and one basking light. I was pretty cramped. But, I figured it was only going to be for 2 or 3 weeks.

Something just hit me. It never crossed my mind til I typed that last paragraph. I know that females also have some thing that looks like a hemipenes. I never really got a good look at our Savannah monitor’s. Just noticed it would come out and then go right back in. Crocdoc, Do you think it’s possibly, given this new info, maybe my Savannah monitor was female and became egg bound? I don’t know anything about Savannah monitor reproduction or how fast dystocia can kill. I have always made sure I had plenty of substrate for a female Savannah monitor, until I moved him.



08/21/11  01:00pm

 #2233613


Bighog85
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   Message To: Otis425   In reference to Message Id: 2233602


 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.

It is hard to tell from the pictures but just looking at the head in comparison with known males, that one looks female. Monitors do often confuse their owners when they evert because females can look a lot like males. My guess is your animal became egg bound. Even with enough substrate females will often retain their eggs unless they have an actual nest box. A friend of mine recently lost a tegu and is probably going to lose another one because he would not provide them with nest boxes. He thought that they would just lay in the 2" of bark that he puts in his enclosures. Of course, all of this is just speculation because it is hard to tell all of this from pictures but this is a very common problem that many owners do not know to address. I’m sorry for your loss and hopefully we can figure out what happened exactly and fix it for next time.
08/21/11  02:09pm

 #2233673


Crocdoc
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   Message To: Bighog85   In reference to Message Id: 2233613


 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.

There are a lot of factors compounding here, making it difficult to pinpoint the exact cause of death. The reason I was asking the sex is I, too, thought the head looked female and going off food unexpectedly for two weeks is often a sign of a reproductive cycle. Hemipenes, when fully everted, are really obvious - larger than you expect them to be, purplish, convoluted and covered with frills and bumps. Failure to fully evert doesn’t necessarily mean female, but if you saw a couple of structures come out reasonably far and they didn’t make you excalim "OMG!" it would likely be a female.

The change of enclosure is a huge compounding factor. If nothing had changed and the monitor suddenly went off its food and died, that’s one thing, but it seems a bit of a coincidence that after three years the monitor died within two weeks of being moved into a different enclosure so I would guess that had something to do with it. Did it go off its food before being moved or after?

If the monitor did die through reproductive failure, the change in enclosure would have likely contributed as females don’t cope well with being moved as they’re getting ready to lay, especially if the new enclosure has fewer nesting options (shallower substrate, for example).



08/21/11  07:39pm

 #2233759


Varanus_odom
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   Message To: Otis425   In reference to Message Id: 2233602


 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.

Sorry for your loss Otis.

I just lost my adult male Sav. He was almost 8 years old.



08/22/11  02:04pm

 #2233870


Otis425
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   Message To: Varanus_odom   In reference to Message Id: 2233759


 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.

I guess there is just too many factors too rule out. Now I wish I had done the necropsy, and let my son bury an empty box. It may have been just bad timing that we moved our monitor into a smaller enclosure or just a coincidence that he died right after we did. We will never know. Thanks for all your help, everyone.



08/23/11  01:57am

 #2233914


Varanus_odom
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   Message To: Otis425   In reference to Message Id: 2233870


 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.

Quote:

I guess there is just too many factors too rule out. We will never know.



Not so sure about that. You should have enough information to piece things together. Monitor looks female all the way to me.



08/23/11  12:03pm

 #2233960


Mdf
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   Message To: Varanus_odom   In reference to Message Id: 2233914


 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.

Looks female to me>

female top right>


95% sure this was female>


100% male>


I always thought this one was female, but after taking on the 2nd rescue i was sure she was male, as the pic clearly shows to me nowadays!







08/23/11  04:34pm

 #2234018


Krusty
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   Message To: Mdf   In reference to Message Id: 2233960


 Our 3 year old savannah monitor died.

Sorry for your loss #1 Otis. Your caging was very good and temperatures and substrate sound very good. The diet could have had some alterations (no raw chicken piles), but generally should not have killed you lizard unless it had that fatty liver problem so many Savannahs die of .... and usually at 2-4 years of age also. The lizard was very plump. But it does look like a female all the way and you did move it with it going off of food x 2 weeks, so it’s very hard to deduce what occurred without opening her up and doing a necropsy. Either way, I can understand how crushing it is to lose an animal like that.
08/23/11  09:59pm


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