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 #972365


Razeraze
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 Largest debate again

Link

i do not have many size referance books. i also am told many different things. i was wondering if any of you can clear this up and provide referances?
09/05/06  03:32pm

 #972461


Collaredliz
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   Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 972365


 Largest debate again

Hey raz, i never had a croc. monitor but just so other knows, and clear it up some, is it the debate about a croc. monitor being over 10 foot or is it about owning a kamodo? I assume its about size of a croc. monitor, sorry could not help. Not sure what size i take.



09/05/06  05:00pm

 #972477


Razeraze
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   Message To: Collaredliz   In reference to Message Id: 972461


 Largest debate again

the post started as ownership(which was silly) but now the concern is over the longest living lizard and which varanid it is. i have heard the salvator(water) holds the record

Quote:

Robert Mertens listed it as 321 cm in his monograph "Mertensiella".

from a respected keeper of salvators. i have heard the salvadorii (croc monitor) holds the record at 12 feet but i can not find a reliable source just zoo speculation. i have also heard the perentie is a runner up in the longest but again no reliable sources.
09/05/06  05:13pm

 #972503


Zogo
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   Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 972477


 Largest debate again

megalania
09/05/06  05:38pm

 #972505


Zogo
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   Message To: Zogo   In reference to Message Id: 972503


 Largest debate again

species prisca.
megalania’s the genus.
some think it may be extant...
09/05/06  05:41pm

 #972526


Razeraze
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   Message To: Zogo   In reference to Message Id: 972505


 Largest debate again

magalania is extinct. the question is only for living lizards.
09/05/06  06:04pm

 #972538


Mrcota
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   Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 972526


 Largest debate again

3.21m is the record length for any monitor, a Varanus salvator salvator, from 1929 found in Sri Lanka (then Ceylon) by Heinz Randow. No debate- that is the longest measured length on record.

Cheers,
Michael
09/05/06  06:13pm

 #972549


Razeraze
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   Message To: Mrcota   In reference to Message Id: 972538


 Largest debate again

thank you michael.



09/05/06  06:19pm

 #973037


SHvar
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   Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 972477


 As far as salvadori goes.

The official record for croc monitors is a male zoo specimen measured at 9ft by Sam sweet and jeff Lehm.
Length water monitor, shear size, mass, weight, the komodo.
Beyond that I would have to look around to find what species or specimens come afterwards in size.
09/05/06  11:45pm

 #973103


Treemonitors
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   Message To: SHvar   In reference to Message Id: 973037


 As far as salvadori goes.

I believe the large male in Sam’s collection (different croc than the San Diego 9’er) is over 9 feet- I believe it is 9’ 4" and 35-40lbs if I’m not mistaken.

The 9 foot individual measured by Sam and Jeff down in San Diego that you speak of was not a zoo captive, it was a captive in a private collection (friend of Jeff’s).
09/06/06  01:22am

 #973108


Shay_
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   Message To: Treemonitors   In reference to Message Id: 973103


 As far as salvadori goes.

why does Jeffs last name look funky?
09/06/06  01:34am

 #973121


SHvar
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   Message To: Treemonitors   In reference to Message Id: 973103


 Ok, thats right, it was a private animal.

It was a few years ago, I remember him specifically saying it was at the time the longest anyone has ever proven for real but its longer now when he last checked, around 46lbs, I think I have the picture.
Also thats right Jeff last name is spelled wrong I think.
There was an unsubstantiated croc monitor in another zoo years ago that was supposed to be close to 10ft, but never measured.
09/06/06  02:23am

 #973227


JimmyDavid
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   Message To: SHvar   In reference to Message Id: 973121


 Ok, thats right, it was a private animal.

The longest lizard in the world is the Komodo dragon by looking at it alone.
Although an extraordinary salvator was measured at 10’4’’, just about any big male we see in documentaries filmed at the islands is that big or bigger. Although those beasts are ususally just filmed, if anyone could measure them i’m sure lengths of 11 or 12 feet would be quite real.
09/06/06  09:11am

 #975432


Mrcota
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   Message To: JimmyDavid   In reference to Message Id: 973227


 TV is not reality

The longest Varanus komodoensis ever recorded was 10ft 2in long, compared to the longest Varanus salvator salvator ever recorded at 3.21m (which comes out to 10ft 6in- just a fraction over actually). Since its discovery in 1912, there have been many shot until they were protected and there have also been many research expeditions that have captured numerous specimens, none of which have measured over 10ft 2in. The Douglas Burden Expedition of 1927, whose results were published by the American Museum of Natural History, measured 54 Varanus komodoensis specimens, including the largest that they had found, which measured 2765mm (just under 9ft 1in). Now, large V. salvator salvator males are known to reach maximum lengths (not record lengths) of 2600mm (over 8ft 6in), which is equal in length to the second largest found (of 54) in the aforementioned expedition.

Although V. komodoensis has the greater mass than V. salvator, mass does not always equate to length.

Cheers,
Michael
09/08/06  06:41am

 #975495


JimmyDavid
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   Message To: Mrcota   In reference to Message Id: 975432


 TV is not reality

You missed my point!
I’m not talking about animals that were measured, instead of those never measured.
Just because ONE salvator came out measuring 10’4’’, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t bigger Komodos than that. Here’s a question for you: If ALL the big males from komodo island were identified and documented and properly measured (impossible task) do you have any doubts that many would show a length greater that 10’4’’???
I’m guessing some would even be well over 11 feet.
09/08/06  09:25am

 #975519


Mark bayless
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   Message To: JimmyDavid   In reference to Message Id: 975495


 TV is not reality

Hi Jimmy,
There is a recent paper on the measurements of ’many’ komodos on their island and some interesting results...there are also reports on V. salvator measuring 14 feet in length, and yet others of V. salvadorii measuring over 15 feet, so yes there are reports - but those reports do NOT deny the post that Michael C. wrote, which to-date is authenticated and the largest measured animals.... so you have to go with those for now...

I do have reports of many XL Varanus reports from Africa, Asia, S.E. Asia, Sri Lanka, but that does mean they are true - it only makes them reports of same, nothing more.... just like Sea serpents, dinosaurs in Africa....

Cheers,
markb



09/08/06  09:59am

 #975909


JPsShadow
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   Message To: JimmyDavid   In reference to Message Id: 975495


 What you say is pure speculation.

This is an odd approach look at the animal and guess its length then claim it as fact?? The right approach would be to measure compile and then get the highest recorded measurement. That is what was posted the recorded lengths, on record the longest is v. salvator, the heaviest is Komodo. The eyes can be decieving so do not always believe what you see. as a 9 foot 200+ lizard will look greatly larger then a 10’ 100 +/- lizard. Your eyes will lead you to believe the shear mass will in turn translate into length as well.

I am sorry but I must say I have never seen anything that led me to thank clearly the komodos were 11 or 12 foot. I merely think they look large, seeing as I have no idea how big anything is in the surroudings how could I determin any measurements?



09/08/06  05:52pm

 #975925


Razeraze
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   Message To: JPsShadow   In reference to Message Id: 975909


 What you say is pure speculation.

thank you all for contributing.



09/08/06  06:04pm

 #976220


JimmyDavid
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   Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 975925


 What you say is pure speculation.

I’m sorry JpShadow, but i still have to stand by what i said first. I agree that guessing numbers just by looking can be tricky, but please, only to a certain point. After that becomes common sense!!!
In this pic bellow is a big salvator. The photo is well known, the lizard is from Prehistoric pets and they say he is around 8 feet or so. Fine!!



Now compare him to these MONSTERS!! Now the salvator looks tiny as hell, doesn’t he?




Next you will insult my inteligence by saying that the salvator is really longer than those, he just doesn’t look so... (right?)



09/08/06  10:20pm

 #976265


AlbigCrazy
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   Message To: JimmyDavid   In reference to Message Id: 976220


 What you say is pure speculation.

That salvator is 6 foot ish, the guy holding it i forget his name.. is a short fat guy. He’s only like 5’5" That salvator is very obese also, and not near 8 foot.

I disagree with there being 12+ foot komodoensis. Im sure 10+ 11 is possable but truthfully very unlikly.


Chad
09/08/06  10:54pm

 #976267


AlbigCrazy
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   Message To: JimmyDavid   In reference to Message Id: 976220


 What you say is pure speculation.

That salvator is 6 foot ish, the guy holding it i forget his name.. is a short fat guy. He’s only like 5’5" That salvator is very obese also, and not near 8 foot.

I disagree with there being 12+ foot komodoensis. I’m sure 10+ 11 is possible but truthfully very unlikely.


Chad
09/08/06  10:54pm

 #976295


JimmyDavid
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   Message To: AlbigCrazy   In reference to Message Id: 976267


 What you say is pure speculation.

Fair enough. But when that’s unlikely for a Komodo it’s mega-unlikely for any other species then, including salvators. Bottom line is: i don’t know if there ever was a 10’4’’ salvator or not (i never saw it) but one thing i’ll tell you: it’s more likely you find a 10+ komodo than a 10+ monitor of any other kind.



09/08/06  11:13pm

 #976304


Razeraze
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   Message To: JimmyDavid   In reference to Message Id: 976220


 What you say is pure speculation.

yes that salvator was only 6 feet. jay vella is the guy holding it. here is a 7 foot water monitor who is not obese

i have seen this one and it is as big as the 8 foot komodo they had at the shed aquarium.



09/08/06  11:19pm

 #976329


Frocto
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   Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 976304


 What you say is pure speculation.

I think the one thing you have to take into account for with Komodos is that they have short tails in comparison to their bodies. Very thick and massive tail but what, barely as long as the body?
While the croc has a tail twice as long as the body isn’t it? I can’t remember the water monitor’s tail to body ratio but it is longer than the komodo.
Another point to remember is that komodos are so used to people in the wild that they don’t fear them.
How many truly large water monitors or crocs are seen in the wild that don’t run as soon as they hear something? The last show I watched that had people trying to catch a wild water monitor they barely got it when it ran into a rock outcrop. It moved faster than any animal it’s size I have seen.
09/08/06  11:38pm

 #976591


JimmyDavid
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   Message To: Frocto   In reference to Message Id: 976329


 What you say is pure speculation.

I’m not so sure if it’s a matter of being used to people around. I think The Komodo is the only lizard in the world who really doesn’t see a person as a threat because they are so big.
The rest of the monitor species are hunted for meat, the Komodo HAS HUNTED people for meat.



09/09/06  08:45am

 #976611


JimmyDavid
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   Message To: JimmyDavid   In reference to Message Id: 976591


 What you say is pure speculation.

Another good debate that was posted here is also interesting and shows that it’s stupid to even compare any other monitor to the Komodo. It shows the skulls of a Komodo and a salvator, both at what is somewhat considered large adult size for both species.
http://www.repticzone.com/forums/KomodoDragon/messages/236990.html

I’m sorry, just about every book or internet page about wildlife says the Komodo is both heaviest and longest monitor (guinness saying the croc monitor is the longest, though), But ONLY at forums like these i hear about
a 10’4’’ salvator of wich there are no pictures or documentation of any sort. What was the story behind this salvator again??
09/09/06  09:19am

 #976698


John Anthony Adragna
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   Message To: JimmyDavid   In reference to Message Id: 976611


 What you say is pure speculation.

in 1927, in sri lanka, a german expedition went out to capture reptiles and ship them back to europe. there they would be displayed at the berlin aquarium, and other institutions. they managed to capture and ship the largest recorded varanid... the 10 foot 6 inch salvator. i am currently tracking down photos of this animal which perished when allied forces destroyed the zoo in ww2.

all other measurements such as 12 foot komodos, 14 foot salvadorii- SPECULATION. probably mans way of exaggerating the truth.

get out a measuring tape... 48 inches. thats a SVL length for an existing salvator at the madras croc bank, india.

very few varanids reach that body length of 4 feet. my 6.5 foot salvator has a svl of 32" and he is quite impressive.

if you want to see extra large salvators in the wild, they are existing in sri lanka.

this was fun.
09/09/06  11:19am

 #976754


SHvar
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   Message To: John Anthony Adragna   In reference to Message Id: 976698


 Yes, this is 34 inches STV length..

To give you an idea (this one is months old).


This is a newer pic.


Why I dont believe speculated sizes and weights, people say she looks like shes is 65-75lbs in person, in reality she is 32 lbs, estimated sizes in person range from 5-8ft when people see her.
Reminds me of a class I took on range estimation years ago, they would point out landmarks, you would guess as to distance in meters, most people were off by way to much or way too little.



09/09/06  12:21pm

 #976987


Razeraze
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   Message To: JimmyDavid   In reference to Message Id: 976611


 What you say is pure speculation.

jimmy david you have to realize you are talking to the people who write the books here and the people who personaly research these animals. google varanus salvator images you will see some huge pics. i wish i could find the post that was in danish. i have the pic but i can’t find that forum.
09/09/06  04:33pm

 #977084


JimmyDavid
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   Message To: Razeraze   In reference to Message Id: 976987


 What you say is pure speculation.

You are talking to someone who’s been into herps for years. I’ve had salvators, albigs, niles, crocs, anacondas, pythons... the list goes on. The biggest lizards i have ever seen live or on photos have been komodo dragons. Period!! Everybody always wants to be the next smart guy around trying to bring some fresh news into the game and sound cool " there’s evidence of this and that..." "They found that..." "new records show this and that"... nonsense. In the end of the day There really is nothing new about this debate: Komodo dragons are the biggest monitors out there.



09/09/06  05:38pm
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