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LArteaga Farout LArteaga Farout LArteaga Farout LArteaga LArteaga LArteaga Farout LArteaga Farout LArteaga SusanC Farout Farout LArteaga Farout LArteaga Farout LArteaga Charlystarly Farout Rocky_horror LArteaga Charlystarly SusanC SusanC Farout LArteaga

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#1768519

LArteaga
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New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

I know, I know.....should have found a breeder and not a pet shop.....and should have asked for a feed test. Neither of those were done.....so I am stuck.

My new Ball Python is about 11 inches or so, I am not sure of the age, and does not want to feed. I tried with hoppers.....didn’t work, I now tried with pinkie and its not working either.....Just look at the picture! I almost thought they were best friends.....whenever the snake comes near it the pinkie crawls next to it ti get warm.

I covered the box....left them alone....until the pinkie finally died and nothing!!!

The habitat is well set up....proper temps and humidity.....I’ve had him for about 2 1/2 weeks and know this is normal but am worried for his health. He is pretty active, very friendly and has peed and pooped normally....I do not believe it is stress or parasites.....then again, I am not a vet.

and BTW, I did have a Ball Python a while back, which I STUPIDLY gave away.....He never gave me any issues. Used to eat 3-4 mice a week, but was more aggressive than this little guy....

I am worried because the Pythons backbone is beginning to show a little....isn’t that too thin? I don’t have money for a vet to be honest.....and I see everyone here has such a friendly and helpful attitude, I thought I may get some ideas. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!!!

06/21/08 01:06pm

#1768703

Farout
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1768519

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

If you are handling him, I would definitely stop. Don’t handle him at all (even if you think he likes it) until he has eaten for at least two weeks in a row. I would not take him out of his cage to feed. That is probably stressing him out too. Be sure to limit traffic in the cage area, perhaps place a towel or something over it to help him feel more secure, and leave him alone for a couple of days. Then try feeding him in his cage and leave him alone. If he eats, continue to leave him alone until he feeds again. Then only handle him maybe twice a week. A snake that small will only see humans as huge possible predators. Just because he doesn’t hiss or bite doesn’t mean he isn’t stressed. The fact that he isn’t eating does. :) This has always worked for me.

Also, make sure you have at least two hide boxes for him... one on each side. :)

06/21/08 05:03pm

#1768743

LArteaga
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Message To: Farout In reference to Message Id: 1768703

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

I will stop handling and have already followed your suggestion as far as the towel, however, I wouldn’t like to feed him in his enclosure....I have loose aspen bedding (no Chemicals) and wouldn’t like to risk his health or a bite in the future.

Also, I have him in a 10 gal enclosure, which the petshop said would be fine for his size, and only one hide fits. I hope to soon buy him a larger enclosure....Just need to get the $$$.

Any suggestions as to how big it should be and how I could make it comfortable for him as well as pleasing to see him in??

It is around 75 on the cold side now with an under tank heater and 65 humidity......I dont know whether to place a light, and if so if red, blue or what....any suggestions?

06/21/08 05:48pm

#1768827

Farout
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1768743

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

Just put a pinkie in a brown paper bag or in a plastic bowl. He will not eat for you if he feel unsafe outside of the cage. Even if he ingests a little of the aspen it won’t hurt him. The juices in his stomach can dissolve bones so don’t worry about a couple of pieces of wood. :) You need to use smaller hide boxes if you can only fit one. He is so small and will only feel safe in something he can squeeze really tight into. Just use something like an upside down butter container with a hole in the side...something small like that. If he only has one hide, he won’t be able to regulate his temperature. He needs somewhere to hide on both the warm side and the cool side. He won’t go to the warm side if there’s no hide there and he won’t go to the cool side if there’s no hide there. Ball pythons are especially needy for tight dark places to hide.

An undertank heater is all you need for that little guy to warm him up, but you need to know for sure what the temperature is under the hide on the warm side. Aim for between 88 and 92. The warm side could be a little warmer, like 78 to 80, but that can wait. Don’t even worry about lighting right now.

Seriously, it sounds like you really want to do what’s best for him so please take my suggestions. If you keep taking him out of his cage to eat and it is stressing him out (the obvious sign being that he won’t eat), he will starve himself to death. For a snake that small, you don’t have that long to wait. If he’s already losing weight, he’s going downhill. Seriously, please take my advice and just feed him in the cage. Just put the pinkie on newspaper, in a bowl or a paper bag, which will minimize that chances of ingesting the bedding. Like I said, even if he ingests a little, he will be fine. At least he will have eaten. :)

06/21/08 07:25pm

#1769004

LArteaga
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Message To: Farout In reference to Message Id: 1768827

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

Thanks Farout....I have heard a-lot of suggestions and some have said to use tubs and all that but I would love to build a beautyful eye-catching habitat that is as pretty to look at as it is comfortable for..."no-name yet". I have included a picture of what I got so far. I have edited the picture in detail. "No-Name" even Posed!

I went and bought a 25 gal tank and did what you see there. My biggest problem is getting the temperature right. You see, I have him in my room, where the air conditioner is 70F all the time. If I take him outside, my mom might throw him out (She thinks it will EAT my kids, lol).

I have to thermometers as you can see and one to measure humidity. My habitat stats are as follows:

*Cool and Warm side thermometers read 75 degrees....That is why I was thinking about a light for the warm side, so he can bask on the log.

*Humidity is 50....I have to work on that one....My friend told me to spray the tank a bit everyday?!? (Tips will be greatly appreciated)

*I also have a digital thermometer with the sensor right under the warm side hide( it is circled where u see the heating pad square...which is where he is right now....It says 80 degrees....atleast that ones close! ****I have to buy a heating pad that I can manipulate tomorrow, because this one I got for **FREE** with a *Package* for buying the Python is CRAP!!****

I hope to get some fake plants & vines and another stick or two in the near future to get a better wildife effect. That, I plan to do , however, after he starts eating and is all settled in :)

I also figured I’d save some $$$-which is not too good at the moment and breed my own feeder mice. (That’s what I did with my old Python and never ran out of food! I guess that since I have to wait a week then feed "no-name" pinkies...that gives me time to get a head start with the breeding....I got 1 male and 3 females....they are still a bit young but will soon be getting to work :)

Oh, and THANK you very much for taking the time to respond and give me advice. Hopefully all will be well within a week or two. Sooooo, if it is not to much to ask....What do you think of my set-up so far? Any other suggestions? Any more feedback will be GREATLY appreciated.....Thanks again!!!

06/21/08 09:27pm

#1769143

Farout
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1769004

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

Your cage set up looks very nice. You’re doing great. One thing I would suggest is lower those thermometers to the floor level, since that is where your snake will be spending all his time. Another thing which might help raise the humidity is to cover 3/4 th’s of the screen top with a piece of cardboard or a towel. That will help less heat and humidity to escape. If that little heating pad is only reaching 80 degrees in that hide box, you will definitely need a larger one. 80 degrees will not be hot enough for him to efficiently digest his food. You can put a red incandescent heat lamp on the warm side to help raise the ambient temperature of the cage, but most likely your ball python will not use it for a basking spot while digesting his food. They prefer to hide in a dark tight place where they feel safer. He might use the basking spot at night. Be sure to get a low wattage one like 50 watts. You can buy cheap lamp dimmers at walmart which you can plug the lamp and heat pad into in order to regulate how hot they get. This will help alot.

He definitely looks a little thin. Warming up the cage and the hide box may also help generate a hunger drive in him as well as boost his immune system. I would say that getting the warm side (in the hide) up to 88 or 90, and raising the average air temperature to 80 ( the light and covering the top of the cage will help), and leaving him in quietness and solitude are the most important things you can do to get him to eat.
Its actually odd to see him not in one of the hide boxes in the picture.

I totally understand the challenges of getting the cage right and getting the snake to eat. I have had to work at both these things. Most snake keepers have struggled with these factors as well. You’re doing a great job.

Hope this helps!

06/21/08 11:19pm

#1769353

LArteaga
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Message To: Farout In reference to Message Id: 1769143

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

I will be going by petsmart and walmart as soon as I am done working.....my husband is going to kill me for spending so much.....but if "RatBite" eats, it will be worth it...(BTW, my 4 yr old named him Ratbite yesterday ;-/)

Once I do this I will send an updated photo and see what u think.....THANKS A LOT, u have no idea how much I appreciate it!

06/22/08 08:17am

#1769409

LArteaga
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Message To: Farout In reference to Message Id: 1769143

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

OK.....I am still working on getting the heat pad....Got no more $$$ til Tuesday :-/ I put the thermometers down.....Have a 40watt lightbulb, just ordered an incandecent red bulb online, meanwhile I will turn this one off during the nithg. The light is right over the warm side. I misted the enclosure and covered 1/2 with a towel on top. Here is the pic:

So far, my stats are as follows:

*Cool Side 73-74 degrees

*Warm side 76-77 degrees

*Under warm hide (thats where he is now) 85 degrees

*Humidity is 70

I think I almost got it!!!! HAHAHA Thanks alot :) It still needs a little work, but is better than when I started :) What do u think? Any more suggestions???

06/22/08 10:39am

#1769414

LArteaga
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1769409

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

Scratch That:

*Cool side 73-74 degrees

*Warm side 76-78 degrees
*Under warm hide, (Where he is) 85.0-85.8 degrees
*Humidity 62

06/22/08 10:45am

#1769600

Farout
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1769414

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

Looking good. The cool side will be okay until you get the heat lamp. 85 degrees is a little low for optimum but it will definitely help him out for now. You really don’t need any higher humidity than 60% for a ball python. My carpet pythons are kept at between 50 to 60 and have perfect sheds all the time.

Now I would just leave him very much alone for a day or two and in quietness as much as possible. Then just leave a pinkie in the cage overnight. I’m not really sure about pinkies but I would never suggest feeding live mice to your snake. I’ve seen too many bites and chewed of scales to ever recommend this.

Let us know how it goes.

06/22/08 02:10pm

#1770133

LArteaga
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Message To: Farout In reference to Message Id: 1769600

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

cool side is around 75, warm is around 80....under warm hide it is 87.5....Ive been at my sisters baby shower all day, when I returned "Ratbite" was in cool hide...it was 10:47pm.....I turned off light and covered cage with towel......He seems to be ajusting....been in his hide all day, unlike before when he used to be out and about. However, when I came back, humidity is at 40......how can I maintain humid conditions at 60???

Everything but humidity seems well....I will be leaving him alone 2 (MAYBE 3) more days....dont want to wait much longer since I dont want to risk his getting any thinner....

BTW I always feed live.....I hold the mice by the tail on one end so that he wont hurt the snake.....or atleast ALWAYS supervise.....u think a pinkie or a hopper would be better in a few days???? and should I buy 1 or 2??? Thanks again for the info....eternally greatful....If he pulls out of this one, I’ll owe u his life :)

06/22/08 10:34pm

#1770407

Farout
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1770133

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

Its a good sign that he’s in the hides. Its also kind of good he’s in the cool hide. That suggests that the warm hide is warm enough for him and he’s able to warm up enough. Hopefully this will encourage him to eat.

Personally, I wouldn’t hold the pinkie to him. I would just leave it for him to find alone. A pinkie should be good enough for him right now. The more he feels he’s alone, the better chance that he will eat. Just leave it at the door of his hide so he can pull it inside. That’s what I would do. :)

Hmmm....if you have something covering most of the screen top and the humidity is at 40%, you could get a larger water dish. This will make a difference. Be sure that you don’t cover the top of the cage completely so that there can still be some air flow. :)

I would try to feed him tonight or tomorrow.

06/23/08 08:23am

#1770491

LArteaga
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Message To: Farout In reference to Message Id: 1770407

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

HAHAHA....I hold the bigger mice, not the pinkie :)

I do have a larger water bowl which I will put in in just a few......so, I should get just 1 pinkie, not 2?

06/23/08 10:28am

#1770771

SusanC
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1770491

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

I don’t understand why you keep going bigger. (you said you bought a 25 gallon.. you had him in a 10) he isn’t eating b/c he is stressed out.. if that baby is 11 inches long... put him in a plastic shoe box container.. melt air holes in it.. with little tiny hides... as in the saucers that flower pots sit in.. a small water bowl... and get his temps UP warm side between 88-92 and the cool side 78-82. You want a 10 degree difference.. Snakes want their hides to touch them.
Your enclosure is too big... your temps are too low.. no wonder your baby isn’t eating. The pet shop shouldn’t have sold you an unstarted snake. I have 11 baby Balls.. they are 7 weeks old... and I still have 3 that haven’t eaten. you have to leave him alone.. keep his temps up...offer live rat pups... sometimes they need wiggle to entice them... I’m sure Rab and GA and Loft lizard can tell you more... but this is a good start.. you can get those shoe boxes with lids for $1

06/23/08 02:51pm

#1771072

Farout
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Message To: SusanC In reference to Message Id: 1770771

Susan

Susan,

She’s just now got the snake to settle down and stay in its hide. Yes, she needs to improve the conditions but the snake is already loosing weight and as it goes now, I think the most important thing is getting it to feel secure. If she keeps changing the caging it will only stress it out more. If she just leaves it as is and allows it to adopt its present, although imperfect, environment, it may still have a chance of eating. I’m only speaking from what I’ve learned from my own experiences here.

If you go back and thoroughly read the entire thread, you’ll see that she has improved the conditions to what I believe is sufficient....not perfect. Continuing to change the baby’s habitat now that its losing weight will only prolong its stress. The fact that it is using both hides tells me that the temps are at least sufficient for it to thermoregulate. Now that it is beginning to feel secure, I think she should focus on trying to get it to eat.

06/23/08 07:14pm

#1771076

Farout
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1770491

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

I would start with just one pinkie.

06/23/08 07:16pm

#1771153

LArteaga
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Message To: Farout In reference to Message Id: 1771076

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

YEESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!! I did it Farout!!! Thanks to u:) I went out most of the day and left a pinkie by his door like u said. When I got home, I found my "RatBite" half way up a branch on his way to his hide with a bump in his belly!!!!! Pinkie is nowhere....., Duh, (like the bump wasn’t sign enough, I still looked)...He finally Ate!!!!!

Thanks soooooooo much.

Todays stats were 80-82 degrees on cool side, 85 on warm, and 93-94 under warm hide......still working on the humidity. Accidently dropped too much water on bedding when changing the water, but I have to wait 2 days right? So I can take him out and clean the enclosure well??? I also bought another branch (which he was almost on, so he seems to have liked)....Thanks again, Farout.....atleast he had his first meal....

I feed again in 4-5 days right? U think another pinkie or maybe a rat pup???? or hopper?

I AM SOOOOO HAPPY!!! :)

06/23/08 08:11pm

#1771208

Farout
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1771153

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

That is wonderful news!!!!

I would still keep handling to a real minumum. Now that he is feeling safe enough to eat, you definitely don’t want him to become stressed again. I really wouldn’t take him out of the cage until he has had his second meal. That’s my opinion. Now that you have him on the right track, its better safe than sorry. You don’t really need that much heat in the hide. I would try to keep it at round 90. The thing is, if all he has is one warm hide, he may end up cooking himself if he has to stays in there too long.

Can you just pull out the part of bedding that’s wet without pulling it all out? I would wait at least 5 days to feed him again. Since you do see a little bulge in his belly you know that one pinkie is sufficient right now. I hold to the opinion that its not good to feed snakes too much, especially in their younger years. Illnesses and even premature death has been linked to too much fat built up around the heart from overfeeding or power feeding snakes. I would just take it slow.

I’m very happy you got him to eat. Good work!

06/23/08 08:37pm

#1771226

LArteaga
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Message To: Farout In reference to Message Id: 1771208

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

I wont be handling till after next meal......He has the cool hide too, thats where hes been most of the day, last night he was in the warm.....It has been changing from 85 to 93 degrees throughout the day.....I heard it can be to 95, hell be ok, he ate and went into the cool hide.....temps are good enough, I just gotta work on humidity :)

06/23/08 08:46pm

#1771435

Farout
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1771226

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

Far out :)

06/23/08 11:00pm

#1771471

LArteaga
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Message To: Farout In reference to Message Id: 1771435

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

HAHHA....Guess what?!? My mind played tricks on me. I saw a belly bump because I saw no pinkie....The pinkie was getting warm and cozy for a sleepover in the snakes warm hide.....I am getting so frustrated and although I have fallen in love with this snake, I think I will call it quits.....I have already spent too much on supplies, so do u know where I can get good quality ball pythons which have already fed??

I don’t know what to do anymore!

06/23/08 11:31pm

#1771607

Charlystarly
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1771471

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

Ball pythons are known to be fussy eaters. My brother (Chezequerz) has one which used to not eat. You should PM him he had the same problem, just give him the story and tell him that I said that you should. Fluffy (our BP) was a few months old(you never know with pet shops) and refused to eat. You can’t give up on him, he will eat eventually, bear in mind that snakes have slow metabolisms and go on fast periods, just stay positive, stay calm and keep trying it’s all you can do, and getting another BP because this one won’t eat won’t change anything, BPs are very fussy eaters(not like humans or another mammal) they choose not to eat if the are stressed. I agree with SusanC in some parts that she said, snakes like to feel the sides of their hides, it’s how they feel secure, especially nocturnal species.

Don’t forget to PM my brother he can help alot

Charlotte x

06/24/08 02:49am

#1771681

Farout
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1771471

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

If you’re running out of money how do you expect to pay for another BP? CharleyStarley is right....be patient. The snake will only eat when it wants to, not when you want it to. You need to either spend the money on a proper set up, which indeed would be a smaller, tub sized,dark enclosure or leave the snake alone. Just leave it alone in the dark for awhile.

What do you plan on doing with this one if you’ve given up on it?

06/24/08 08:30am

#1771720

Rocky_horror
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1771471

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

it won’t matter if you get one that has been feeding, ifyour husbandry is not correct.

i don’t know how much you’ve spent, but there are still things wrong with your setup. ball pythons are consistant eaters in a good environment.

if you can’t handle their needs, try a corn snake. much more forgiving of husbandry errors.

06/24/08 09:47am

#1771724

LArteaga
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Message To: Farout In reference to Message Id: 1771681

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

give it away to some one who can make him feed

06/24/08 09:50am

#1771772

Charlystarly
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Message To: LArteaga In reference to Message Id: 1771724

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

That won’t work. There’s no point in getting a new one if you can’t make the one you’ve already got. Giving up a pet for another is a horrible thing to do.

Charlotte x

06/24/08 11:00am

#1771935

SusanC
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Message To: Charlystarly In reference to Message Id: 1771772

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

OK... once again..let me say.. that this snake is a baby. It is only 11 inches long so it can’t be much older than my babies. It needs to be in a SMALL enclosure..with SMALL TIGHT FITTING hides. the longer it is left in an enclosure that is too big.. the more stressed the snake will become.
There is a thread started by Rabernet that tells how she gets her babies started... you should find it..read it... and live by it. Better yet... she... nor GA.. or a few of the others won’t mind if you PM them... as long as you listen to what they say.. and follow their directions.. they will tell you the SAME thing I am telling you.. who do you think told me? I’m not perfect.. I still am trying desperately to get my babies to eat (3 out of 11 are refusing after 7 weeks) don’t give up.. don’t give it away... just contact people who know what to do b/c they BREED them.
Once again, I’ll state, Ball Pythons are NOT beginner snakes.their husbandry has to be perfect.. close enough is not good enough.. Good luck... keep us informed... I’ll send good thoughts your way.. you send them mine.
~smiles~
Susan

06/24/08 01:15pm

#1772147

SusanC
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Message To: SusanC In reference to Message Id: 1771935

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

LA.. I think everyone is under the impression that you were sold a started snake.. that IS NOT so. An 11 inch snake is a (new born) "neonate". They absorb their yolk which will hold them over as far as nutrition is concerned until they are ready to eat. Chances are...your snake has never eaten... and yes you should be patient... but I promise you...it is NOT ok in the container you have it in... the fact that it isn’t eating has proven my point hasn’t it? What are you offering it as far as prey? My first ones to eat.. ate mouse hoppers.. the refusals have been offered everything from mouse hoppers to rat pups.. to African Soft Furs... and yes I’ve even had 3 to not eat ASF’s. I take it that you are offering live prey.Which is probably your best bet at this point as sometimes it takes a little more wiggle. My best advice... go to Dollar tree.. buy a plastic shoe box..melt air holes in it and line with newspaper... spend another $1 on 2 saucers that flower pots sit on (very small) cut holes in them. one on one side one on the other. water dish in the middle... get your temps PERFECT ..not close enough..perfect... leave the snake alone for 1 week. then offer the snake a hopper. if at all possible feed in the dark.Do this as soon as possible because this isn’t a snake that has eaten before and has just gone off feed... this is a baby who has probably never eaten before. I realize that you’ve spent money on the set up.. and you can still use all of that when little Rat Bite is ready...but right now.. he isn’t ready for that. You can get this set up properly for under $4 my way. If this advice is still not good enough for you... PLEASE for your snake’s sake... go to the members list.. and PM GABall or Rabernet..see if their advice varies from mine. (it may slightly but probably not) Heck I even checked to see if you were anywhere near me... I was traveling to your house to help lol anyway once again... good luck... keep us informed.
~smiles~
Susan

06/24/08 03:40pm

#1772562

Farout
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Message To: SusanC In reference to Message Id: 1772147

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

Good advice, Susan.

06/24/08 09:44pm

#1776410

LArteaga
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Message To: SusanC In reference to Message Id: 1772147

New Ball Python....Baby??? Help!!

Thanks for the advice Susan, However, I gave up.....With 2 jobs, 3 kids, & school, patience is not a virtue I possess. I did however give him to a breeder in my area who told me he would get him to eat. I exchanged him (Oh, and the guy sex "him" and he was a she) for a 4 month old Fem. This one has eaten and I fed her a live feeder mouse as soon as I got home. She is doung fine in the set-up I had made. Only she is not as tame as the other on.... She hisses every time I try to get her. I figure, I will let her be till next week or the one later, cause if she tries to bite me I most likely will not handle her again.

06/28/08 09:54am

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