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#1779858
SlitherOn
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3 foot Black Rat rescue 
Hello, I am new to the forum and to snakes in general, but I did own a Savanna Monitor and am familiar with reptile care in general. A friend of mine, (96 year old WWII vet) up the road found this snake and his family wanted to kill, he brought it to my house to see if I could keep it for him, seeing how he cannot keep it himself. He was told if it was seen again it would be killed. Since I have been thinking about getting another reptile of some sort for a little while now, I thought why not, it might be interesting. Anyway, I dug an old 20 gal. long out of storage, got a screen top, light, hide, water dish,, substrate of fir bark, climbing branch, in general, all I thought I could fit to make him comfortable. He is a bit nippy when I go to pick him up, but after I pick him up he doesn’t bite, calms down, and just tries to get away. He eats store bought mice very well, since the second day in his new home. I have had for abut five days and have given him 2 mice. It is warm here bout 80-85 during the day, and his tank gets about 70-75 at night. I have not seen him in his waterdish at all. He will burrow in the substate uder his hide and STAYS there, all day, all night, until I bother him and dig him up to handle him. I bother him every day and handle him for about ten minutes and then put him back in his tank. He seems to taming down OK, he no longer tries to bite as much when I go to pick him up, he doesn’t musk any more, at all, since the second night I had him.
My questions are, is the burrowing and hiding normal, I’m afraid he will get cold on the bottom of the tank and get sick, because he does not climb and use his lamp at all. Shouldn’t he be trying to escape his enclosure? I think it is normal they don’t like to be bothered for a few hours after they eat, If I get my hand anywhere near him after I feed him, he will bite. I know this is a W/C, but if keeping him is not good for him I would rather let him go, and catch a very young juvy in the fall to keep. He seems healthy, but I want him to be happy also. I am a little afraid if I let him go, he will go back to where he was and get killed. I think he is about 2 years old, because of his size and his juvy colors are still seen pretty clearly, the black snakes around here that I have seen are usually pretty black, and his scales still have a touch of gray to them, like on his head. Any help on determining his age would be appreciated. Any info on there activities when first caught and adjusting would be appreciated, I want to keep him, I just don’t want him depressed and sleeping all the time, I think he should be exploring and moving more than he is. I have named him Onyx. Thanks in advance, Fred
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07/01/08 05:04pm
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#1780062
JackAsp
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Message To: SlitherOn In reference to Message Id: 1779858
3 foot Black Rat rescue
He might be warm enough as is, but just to play it safe you can easily provide some belly heat. You ought to be able to find a small heat mat at any pet store, and a lamp dimmer to reduce the power a bit (the mats aren’t as insanely hot as they used to be, but they can still sometimes be too much of a good thing. i had a hognose that was throwing up whenever the room temperature droppedat night until I tuned her heat mat DOWN, because it ws too warm for her to sleep on so she’d ben over0using the cooler sections of the cage.) at any hardware store.
Try to feed him two or three mice a week instead of one every couple of days. It’s still often enough, and the organs get more rest in between meals. Avoid gratuitous handling for at least a day after eating; snakes can handle moving after eating better than most people here seem to think they can, but he’s wildcaught and stress can often trigger a regurge reflex. Plus, he’ll have more in his belly if you’re giving him more mice than you are now.
If you want to saee him on the branch, try putting some fake plants around it, so it’s more like crawling around in a bush than just wrapping around a bare log. They prefer to feel hidden while they’re moving around.
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07/01/08 09:11pm
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#1780156
SlitherOn
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Message To: JackAsp In reference to Message Id: 1780062
3 foot Black Rat rescue
OK, I was thinking about an UTH, so I’ll prolly get one, and some plants too. When you say 2 or 3 mice a week instead of one every couple days, do you mean 2 or 3 at one time once a week? Thanks, Fred
Oh heres a pic, I will try to get better ones later, maybe tomorrow.
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07/01/08 10:51pm
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#1780856
SlitherOn
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Message To: SlitherOn In reference to Message Id: 1780156
3 foot Black Rat rescue
OK, I didn’t get an UTH today, the woman at the pet store,who did seem pretty knowledgable, I have delt with them before, not like petland or a big chain, who don’t know much.LOL Said it was too hot for him and that is why he burrows, he also is not used to a dish of water to get in, so his instinct is to burrow. we live in a temperate zone, and they like it cooler here. I did however get some plant and vines to add cover to make Onyx more comfortable. I was going to take some pics out of his tank, but when I handed him to my son, and started fooling with the camera, Onyx started going nuts trying to get away really bad, so I took him back and he calmed down after just a few seconds. I guess he is just getting used to me. He’s pretty much quit biting me altogether, and just checks out my hand when it comes near him. I can pick him up now without much of a problem. Especially when I just kept letting him bite me and I think he just gave up. (I have really tough skin, he doesn’t even scratch the back of my hand) LOL I still need more info on behaviour that I haven’t found here, I have read the entire Internet cache on Black Rats (What I could find), basically they all say the same thing. That is why I posted here, the only site I have found so far with knowledgable people who really know there snakes. I have read the first page on Rat snakes, since they are related, I figure behaviors are similar. I will continue through the archives, maybe expanding my knowledge as I go. Thanks, Fred
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07/02/08 05:36pm
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#1782357
JackAsp
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Message To: SlitherOn In reference to Message Id: 1780856
3 foot Black Rat rescue
I meant all at the same time, but not EXACTLY a the same time. If the second mouse sees what happened to the first mouse, it’s going to fight a lot harder. But, yeah, give him one, then another, then maybe another, dpending on how big the mice are and how quickly he’s eating them. Do that once a week and you’ll work out how much he likes. The goal is regular feeding, the same amount every 5-7 days. Whether he eats most regularly if you give him 3 mice every 7 days or 2 every 5, or whatever, is going to vary from snake to snake, but most people are able to find a size and number that works well once a week and then just have a standard feeding day that they know they’ll stick to. me, I try for 5, and figure that on the rare occasions I’m a day late, it’s still within the 7 days... but that’s just me.
Burrowing doesn’t necessarily mean he’s hot. They also burrow for heat, since rotting leaves generate warmth at night, and often sections of ground that were in the sun all day will retain heat after dark for many hours. Of course, it COULD mean he’s hot. Or it could just mean he’s shy. I like to give snakes bigger cages than you’re "supposed to" so I have a better margin of error when it comes to thermal gradient. If the room gets too cool, there’s always belly heat, and they know where it is. If it’s too warm, there’s always distance from the heat source, which, like I said before, is turned way down anyway with a lamp dimmer.
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07/03/08 10:58pm
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#1783180
SlitherOn
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Message To: JackAsp In reference to Message Id: 1782357
3 foot Black Rat rescue
OK, Cool, I assumed thats what you ment. How do you know when there full? I don’t want to overfeed. Right now I have him in a 20 long tank. But I have this big hole in my wall between the kitchen and the living room, and its 8 inches thick, 53 inches long and 37 high. I’m thinking about getting some plexiglass, some kind of safe screen or netting for the top half, and I have scrap wood to trim with, and turn the wall into an enclosure for him. It will take some planning, and I’m thinking about trimming it out to about 14" wide. I think it will work for him. Might work on that this winter, but for now I think the 20 long will be ok. I will eventually get a UTH, but they didn’t have any for that tank size, and night temps here are running 70 degrees in his tank, so I think he will be OK, I also turned off the heat lamp, not even using it now, and he quit burrowing so much. He is very shy, I din’t even think he was coming out at night, until I woke up this mornig and all plant decor I have was disarranged. LOL, so I know he comes out when it quiets dwn at night. We are starting to learn about each other too, I had him just sittint in my hands and resting on my lap for long periods this morning, without him trying so hard to getdown or away. He may make a pet yet. LOL. Thanks, Fred
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07/04/08 10:36pm
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#1783277
JackAsp
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Message To: SlitherOn In reference to Message Id: 1783180
3 foot Black Rat rescue
That sounds like it’ll be roomy enough. If you put a sheet of plastic in the bottom of that area, you’ll be able to fit a uth easily, too.
As far as knowing if he’s full... your ideal goal isn’t literally completely full. It’s to find the amount that he’ll consistantly eat at the 5-7 day interval. But for starters: if he eats one mouse quickly, then he probably wants another. If he eats it even faster than the other, he wants still another. If he eats it exactly as quickly, he might want another. if he eats it eventually, but there’s more poking and hesitating than on the first one, he’s had enough. Might still take another after that, but doesn’t need it, and overfeeding might make him take longer than he should to eat a normal-sized meal again. By meal I mean "feeding," not individual mouse. If you buy three mice and he eats all three, one after another, that’s still one meal.
Oh, and if he’s consistantly eating three or more, move up to a larger prey size.
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07/05/08 01:22am
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#1784008
SlitherOn
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Message To: JackAsp In reference to Message Id: 1783277
3 foot Black Rat rescue
OK, Thanks, I will try to get some pics in a few days. He really seems to be calming down, and I just found out tonight about how tramatic his capture really was. He got swatted in the head with a newspaper, then harrased, by tennagers, no wonder he bit the one kid and wouldn’t let go, you should’ve seen this kids finger, it looked serious. LOLHAHAHEHE. Poor Onyx, he’s lucky he doesn’t have scars on him, I’m sure he’s a little scarred mentally though, I’m the only one that can touch him at the moment. He seems to even know if someone else is touching him if I’m holding him. Progress is made daily with him though. He is starting to slow down when I hold him, and look around more, and seems to contemplate the setting he’s in. He’s even starting to climb my arm a little. For the first time this evening when I picked him up, he wrapped his tail around my arm, I don’t really know what that means, but I think it means something because I’ve seen other snakes do it with there owners, and he has never done anything but try to get away from me. I think if I keep working with him he will be OK. Fred
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07/05/08 10:05pm
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