 |
Back to Small-Animals Forum Forums Home Members Area
Small-Animals Forum
| Member | Message | ||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
Hey, it’s been a long time since I’ve been on the site, but I am really nervious about my girls. I have an online friend who has rats of her own and is walking me through this all but I need more opinions. I have recently acquired two young female rats. Frankie (Link) is about 12 or so weeks old and I’ll have had her for a month this Wednesday. Carli (Link) is about 10 weeks or so old and I got her this past Thursday. I got them from the same store, 2 weeks apart. Carli is an albino dumbo and Frankie is just a fancy rat. Those pictures were taken on the same day, I have better ones of Frankie but she’s grown since I’ve had her so that gives the best with size difference. They both can still fit through hamster tubes, although Frank can’t fit through the paper towel roll that Carli can. They do not live with each other yet, however they have met (in a neutral territory box then hanging out in my hood) and I even let Carli go in Frankie’s cage with her (with my supervision all the while and for less than an hour) because they were doing great. (Twice in the very beginning while they were climbing on each other Carli squeaked (Frankis nip her?) but never again.) Carli is currently living in a 10 gallon tank and Frankie is in a 20 gallon long tank with a topper (Link). (That picture is actually kinda old- when I very first set it up and taken with a camera phone by hasn’t changed too much.) They were doing absolutely perfect together and I thought it was going great. But I let Carli in the big cage again with Frank today. It was the usual ’OMG it’s another rat!’ and all that running under each other to sniff, ect. Normal. But then Carli went down into the "basement" with all the bedding and hence all the stored food. She’s done this before- stolen some food then trotted over to a corner to munch on it. Frankie didn’t care much (thank God! I thought she would have been food aggressive with the way she loves grabbing the food from me) before and this time she didn’t either. But then she ran up and just stole the food from Carli and ran. It was all very sly and Carli didn’t notice anything happened until Frank was clear across the tank. Carli, confused, went back to where Frankie stores the food and grabbed herself another chunk. (For the record I feed the lab block stuff.) So I wasn’t comfortable with the food stealing so I went to get them out. The cage isn’t set up with very easy access to the basement so I called them one level up. Frankie usually comes (I told you, she loves that food) but Carli isn’t keen on the whole ramp-up thing so usually only goes up if Frank is too. They were mid-way up the ramp when they both stopped. Frankie was staring at me (probably smelling out if I had food to give) and Carli was just kinda looking around. Then Carli grabs (using her mouth) Frankie (by the foot?) and tugs a little. I hit the tank (lightly, just to make a noise) with my hand to show my dislike for the behavior but Carli did it once more, this time grabbing some slack skin on Frank’s stomach. So I’m really mad now and reach my hand down and (barely reached) grabbed Carli and pulled her out. The floor is wire so she was grabbing on and I had to tug a little (it was pretty gentle, especially for how stressed I was) and I carried her across the room and put her in her tank. I heard a little sound when I had her passing the glass wall so I think I may have let her tap her head on the wall (she was swinging around a little, I didn’t ever get a better hold on her- the room isn’t that long the entire walk took 2 seconds). I felt a little guilty for that so grabbed a food chunk and handed it to her. She actually took it. She has never done that before- that’s why I never figured she’d be food aggressive, she never took food out of my hand; I had to put it on the ground near her to get later. So that was weird. My current theory is that Carli is getting food aggressive. Please let’s not have spamming here nor rude comments. If you have a comment about something I did or whatever that is not directly related to this issue then you may send me a kindly worded message. Thank you. (Sorry if my spelling sucks, it’s a lot of words. And you can call me Ella btw.) |
||
| 04/20/09 04:53pm |
|
||
|
Lovetheleo View Profile |
Message To: Ellagee In reference to Message Id: 1989484 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
normally when introducing them into a cage you want to completely wash EVERYTHING so it is "new" to both of them it sounds like normal behavior to me they will groom each other and grab at each other and squabble sometimes i think you are just being a little paranoid lol which i know is hard not to be lol if you are scarred they can sence that just calm down if you are really concerned just keep letting them play on neatral ground and all the rats i have ever worked with always grab treats like that lol seems like they havent eaten in days lol but i think they are just excited about getting s treat but in when they are hosued together you might want to start out with 2 food dishes of you are really worried what also might help is to buy a whole new cage and introduce them both as new tanks are very bad for them a 20 long with a topper isnt too bad but the 10g is good luck with the intro |
||
| 04/21/09 11:52am |
|
||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Message To: Lovetheleo In reference to Message Id: 1989970 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
There wasn’t a mark left, but I really didn’t take it as playing or grooming- When they were on top of each other and stuff I did take that as grooming for the most part but I felt like it was different. The cage will be completely cleaned before they actually move in. When they were in the neutral territory box they were mainly focused on getting out and I think they were stressing each other out because they were in one another way. So I didn’t think it would be best to have them meet when they are stressed. And Frankie hasn’t been the least bit territorial- everything she’s doing with Carli she had done in the box- and Frankie is the one who’s home is being "invaded." And I knew about the whole haven’t-eatten-in-days act and that was why I was really confused with Carli not taking the food from me in the first place. There is one food dish in Frankie’s cage and Carli has one that is knocked over all the time, but I never use them. Frank always takes the food straight from my hand, stores it, and comes back for more, so the dish is never used. And the dish in Carli’s was really just to catch drippage from the water bottle... (Frankie has a nice bowl under hers and she loves it and has stopped drinking out of her bottle.) Thanks for your response, I figured I was making it a bigger deal than it was. The goal is to have them move in before this weekend, do you think that is still reasonable? |
||
| 04/21/09 02:09pm |
|
||
|
Lovetheleo View Profile |
Message To: Ellagee In reference to Message Id: 1990044 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
also it is actually better to introduce when stressed b/c they can bond that way i know what alot of people suggest with chinchillas is to get a tiny tiny cage and put both of them in there and then go for a ride in the car and they will be stressed but they will bond to each other b/c of that stress(or something along those lines) i beleive it is called the smoosh meathod or something anyway good luck and maybe dragongirl6 will come on with suggestions i know she has rats |
||
| 04/21/09 10:57pm |
|
||
|
Cinderellawkids View Profile |
Message To: Lovetheleo In reference to Message Id: 1990515 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
When I introduce and first join roomates I feed in 2 seperate bowls. They still hide and steal from each other, but it helps. Also make sure there are lots of hides and bed areas, and places to get away from each other. They will squabble from time to time its part of how they get to know each other |
||
| 04/22/09 10:34am |
|
||
|
Dragongirl6 View Profile |
Message To: Cinderellawkids In reference to Message Id: 1990722 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
First, if you are trying to use a 10 gallon tank to introduce them it won’t work very well since smell can’t really go through the glass between the cages. The best thing to do would be to get a small wire carrying cage (large enough for food, water, and sleeping area) and put the newcoming rat inside the cage inside the larger rat cage with the other rat. This way they can get used to each other’s scents and the existing rat can get used to the idea of another being in her territory. Soon they’ll be grooming each other through the bars and sleeping side by side, at which point you can hopefully let them out. I generally have no problems introducing my rats because they are so used to it. The more social you keep them (with coming out of the cage, going into other spaces, the car, etc.) the more luck you’ll have introducing new things (such as new rats). Mine are mixed with so many others that they generally have no problem accepting them. If they are 10-12 weeks, they WILL play. This involves tumbling, squeaking, etc. and as long as there is no blood it is perfectly normal and healthy. Good luck! |
||
| 04/22/09 02:24pm |
|
||
|
MissSkyTheGecko View Profile |
Message To: Dragongirl6 In reference to Message Id: 1990880 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
Yeah, I don’t think it’s really food aggression. It sounds normal, even if it wasn’t her cage. If she was really angry or really wanted to hurt the other rat, she would have drawn blood without a doubt. Just keep doing what you’re doing and let them get used to each other a little longer. If your rats like to play games with you, then maybe try a game that you can play with both of them out of the cage. Maybe let them fish for peas on the floor together or play with some ice cubes together in an environment that’s comfortable to them but they don’t necessarily feel territorial over. When I fostered rats for Dragongirl6, my rats didn’t have much of a problem with them and they actually got along pretty well when I sat near them. I’m not sure if it was more assuring to my rats knowing that I was there or the fosters, but it helped calm them down somehow. Just feel confident. They won’t kill each other especially if you’re right there and a little cut isn’t a big deal. They did draw some blood once, but it was only because he was startled, and rats heal very well. Also remember that rats are social by nature so you don’t have to worry too much about abnormal aggression. So if you haven’t had any serious squabbles already, it sounds like they’ll be fine with each other in the long run, plus they are pretty young which is a plus to introduction. The 20 gal with the topper isn’t that bad, but maybe if you can, get a larger cage for them both before you put them together. It will give them more room to grow and they can claim it together. Plus it’s always good to have an easily accessible cage ;) especially if you’re paranoid lol. |
||
| 04/22/09 03:33pm |
|
||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Message To: MissSkyTheGecko In reference to Message Id: 1990944 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
I am not going to get another cage. That tank topper ran me $60 and is hardly smaller than the $100 ones. Before I got it I heard things and they said that all wire cages sometimes got drafty and the glass/plastic ones have bad ventilation so I went with a combo of both. I already had the 10g and 20L so it turned out best for me. And I have a big bathroom (twice the size of the genaric small ones) attached to my room (and my brothers) that doesn’t have anything bad the rats can get in (like furniture, and the only chemical things are in the up-high cabinets) so I plan on letting them play around in there often- I can sit in there and do hw and go online while supervising. They won’t be stuck in their cage all day. Although I will be going away a lot this summer- the family visits they can come on but the camps they’ll have to stay home with the family. I am trying to get my brother and the girls to bond so he can take them out a lot. Question: Do you suggest harnesses, ect for them? Which kind? The strappy kind or the vest kind? I am nervious whenever I have them out and I give them a "short leash" and won’t let them off my body when they are out (unless in the bathroom) because if they get loose A) my mom will kill me and B) my dogs shall eat them. I am getting them one so that they can be on my lap but be allowed to venture onto my bed, ect, as well. Thanks for your help guys! I knew there would be a lot of experianced rat-owners on this site so I dragged my butt back over after a good 5 months... Next time it’s a nice day I’ll clean everything out thoroughly and pop them in together! (I will also consider the cage-in-cage thing for smelling) |
||
| 04/22/09 05:17pm |
|
||
|
MissSkyTheGecko View Profile |
Message To: Ellagee In reference to Message Id: 1991012 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
But I know babies are a little bit different, so you’ll want to watch them a closer until they know the place better and how free time works. Just keep them in a closed room to play with them, like the bathroom. Some rats will often run to you to "check in" when they’re out. If you’re really worried, you can train them to come when you call them. It’s actually very easy! And so cute (^_^) Or you can try and find a playpen, or make one. If you find one that they can climb over, you can go to Home Depot and get a piece of plexi glass to put over it. I’ve seen pet store playpens for only $15, which is pretty surprising to me actually, and they can be connected to cages so if you want to play with them and give them treats, they can run around and head back to the cage to stash them. Just an idea =) |
||
| 04/22/09 10:49pm |
|
||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Message To: MissSkyTheGecko In reference to Message Id: 1991316 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
They work, ect? Cause I also plan to be able to walk with them- Ideally with the dogs as well. And yeah, Frankie is already becoming a people rat. She always runs up to the top of the cage (where the door is) and wants out. However, she won’t go straight onto my shoulder unless she really thinks there is food with me. I now only feed her after she walks completely onto my shoulder from my cage so that’s really helping with that. She always refuses to sit on my lap actually. Anytime I have her out she imediately sprints to my shoulder and once there ususally tries to leave but still. (I actually can straighten my arm and she will go down its length to her cage and sometimes back.) Point is that they are both working progesses and are getting there (as far as human social-ness). But I don’t trust either of them to come to me if out on the floor (at least not yet). So I won’t give them the option. They can be completely free in the bathroom (even though they both choose to stay on me or my brother) but other than that I would prefer them restrained in some way. (For now) I will try to order some in from petco.com to get in for this weekend. (Blue and White game means some people will be staying including a 11ish year old who might want to hold the girls, but she is a girl herself so she may not... But either way I do not want a loose rat with guests) Harness options: Link1 Link2 Link3 Which one you think is best? Price isn’t an issue, but if it becomes a tie then it will be a deciding factor. (: Thanks so more, -Ella |
||
| 04/23/09 03:40pm |
|
||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Message To: Ellagee In reference to Message Id: 1991751 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
|
||
| 04/23/09 07:23pm |
|
||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Message To: Ellagee In reference to Message Id: 1991941 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
Today is nice out and I don’t have any test to be craming for so I popped the two in the carrier and went outside and cleaned their cage. I only used water, but it was at a very high pressure. I did the inside and outside of the tank and then shot at the wire section. I also watered some toys but that’s basicly it. They fought a little while in the carrier so they had kinda gotten over that. I put them both in the cage together at the same time. Carli didn’t know what really to do, but Frankie (who had lived there) right away went down a level and explored and then went down to the last one after a while. Carli took foever to actually move, but once she did it was all good. I handed Frankie some food because she seemed to be looking for some under the bedding. She took it, put it down and came back up. Carli stole that piece so I figured I would just put 5 more in their dish and let them do it. Frankie made 6 trips up and down to get all the food to the "basement" where she put some infront of Carli (who was munching on a piece already) and some in another corner. They both ate some but are mainly just exploring. They haven’t fought since they’ve been in there (like 20 minutes now) besides a tiny thing when Carli took the food. Infact, Frankie was in her tissue box (It was hers in her old cage, it was still new. Carli has her own a level down.) and Carli climbed in and they didn’t bother each other besides being in each others space. They are doing wonderful! Thanks guys! I’m just wondering about those harnesses... |
||
| 04/24/09 03:28pm |
|
||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Message To: Ellagee In reference to Message Id: 1992484 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
And I think it hurts Carli- she’ll squeak when Frankie is on her... |
||
| 04/24/09 06:12pm |
|
||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Message To: Ellagee In reference to Message Id: 1992554 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
I would have blown it off as grooming but someone squeaks... But they are living together and get along well enough so I’m sure they’ll have it all dealt with soon. But now I keep finding some pee that has made its way out of the cage (via wire) and some poop that went through the wire and got caught on the ledge of the tank as well as some that fell into the water bowl that’s right under the top level... This never happened before Carli moved in so I’m a little put out with her... |
||
| 04/25/09 09:43pm |
|
||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Message To: Ellagee In reference to Message Id: 1993125 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
|
||
| 04/25/09 09:44pm |
|
||
|
Dragongirl6 View Profile |
Message To: Ellagee In reference to Message Id: 1993126 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
As for harnesses, if your rats are good sized you can use them, but I’ve had dozens and dozens of rats and never actually really used them. If you spend time with them, bonding with them, etc. they won’t run off. They might go exploring but even when my rats figured out how to open the doors on their old cage I’d find them sitting on top of it when I got home waiting for dinner lol. I’ve found that they generally hate harnesses (especially girl rats, misskythegecko has males). Girls are very adventurous and wiggly and tend to hate them, while boys will usually reluctantly put up with them simply out of lazyness : ) Make sure you get a kind that isn’t just like, rope/string looped around them as they can tangle themselves up quite quickly in these and get injured. The mesh ones with the multicolored binding and stretchy leash are the best. As for the squabbles, as long as you aren’t seeing blood, don’t worry. They just need to work out their hierarchy. As for peeing/pooping in strange places, this will probably stop when they get used to each other. They use urine and feces to scent mark and stake territory (just like dogs and cats), so when they become bonded they’ll stop. Good luck! |
||
| 04/27/09 01:02am |
|
||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Message To: Dragongirl6 In reference to Message Id: 1993765 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
Now, I am really getting worried and am considering taking back Carli. Frankie (the bigger one) has a bunch of little dots on her stomach and legs from lack of fur. They are multiplying but Carli hardly has any. And because of there getting more of them, and a couple are bigger than usual. (I may be imagining it, but I think one looks a little red...) Also, they (Carli I think) keeps squeaking while they fight. Is this normal? I plan on going to the pet store today and asking the lady about it. (She runs a ferret rescue and had like a million rats (possible bred them) in college.) I will also find out if they are willing to take her back and give me a new female rat. (I would get a little bit of money seeing how Carli is a dumbo and I’d probably only get a fancy.) And while there I will grab a harness. Looking at Petco.com reviews of them, the dog-like one seems the best. Someone plain out said they didn’t like the vest ones so I will ppssibly get one of each. Thanks again, let me know about the fights. |
||
| 04/27/09 06:59am |
|
||
|
ShellBabe View Profile |
Message To: Ellagee In reference to Message Id: 1993822 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
Therefore I will be going to talk to the person at WildSide (there is one who runs a ferret rescue and used to breed rats) and get her opinion on Frankie and then talk to Doug (It’s actually "Doug’s Wild Side") about what he can do for Frankie, seeing how I haven’t had her very long and I thoroughly believe that she came to me with someone wrong- whether it be what she has now, or some kind of lack of resistance to it, and I want WS to pay for vet bills or simply take Frankie back under their care. (Hopefully if they do the latter, I could buy her back after she’s got a clean bill of health) Anyway, I’ll give updates. Wish us luck! PS- I plan on going tomorrow and if I can’t go sooner then I will seperate them so Carli can’t get anything in case it’s contagious. |
||
| 04/27/09 10:13pm |
|
||
|
ShellBabe View Profile |
Message To: ShellBabe In reference to Message Id: 1994322 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
But this is "Ella" "talking" and posted that last thing. I’ll see what’s up with that... o.0 |
||
| 04/27/09 10:14pm |
|
||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Message To: ShellBabe In reference to Message Id: 1994323 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
|
||
| 04/27/09 10:15pm |
|
||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Message To: Ellagee In reference to Message Id: 1994325 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
I had to take my dog to the vet today and while I was there I asked him about Frankie. I was very glad to find that he knew enough about rats to give me a vauge diagnose which was that it was probably fine (he had an idea of what it was and mentioned tumors but agreed that she is too young for that to be very likely) but if it starts to bother her then it’d be good to bring her in. He also said (because I asked) that a "first-time animal appointment" would be about $38 so I am very glad I didn’t have to bring her in- that’d be such a bummer to pay $38 only to be told that nothing was wrong with her. Anyway, I’m glad (: And harness? |
||
| 04/28/09 08:51pm |
|
||
|
GreySky View Profile |
Message To: Ellagee In reference to Message Id: 1994785 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
|
||
| 04/29/09 01:11pm |
|
||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Message To: GreySky In reference to Message Id: 1995066 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
Big rat. haha I’ve nailed their personalities (: Carli is sleepy and laid back- she’ll be a little fussy when taken out at first but it doesn’t take long before she finds a cozy place to sleep. (She wasn’t moving in my hood so I kept looking to make sure she was there and she got annoyed with the distruption of her sleep so went under my hoddie completely- between my shirt and jacket lol) And then Frankie is always moving and running around. She will climb onto my shoulders and such but not want to stay on me but not in the cage either. I think Frankie will really be the one who’ll need the harness. I plan on getting just one and checking for size and see if one absolutely refuses to wear it or can get out too easily and stuff. Then I will go back for a second. Either keeping with the same kind or going with the other one. Which kind do you have/use/like? Harness (instead of vest)? I guess you have a dog’s one so it wouldn’t be a vest ^^ Thanks for your reply (: Hopefully I can get enough input from this thread so I don’t have to a new one and clog up with forum. |
||
| 04/29/09 08:11pm |
|
||
|
GreySky View Profile |
Message To: Ellagee In reference to Message Id: 1995265 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
|
||
| 04/30/09 10:14am |
|
||
|
Ellagee View Profile |
Message To: GreySky In reference to Message Id: 1995485 Two Rats: Introducing Help Please?
And also that they are doing great together; I am assuming that their fighting is just playing because they hold no hard feelings by nap time (: They always sleep smooshed together. Carli is usually asleep; even after I take her out of the cage, she quickly finds a place to snuggle down. Frankie is up and about usually and doesn’t need much convincing to wake up to grab some grub. Frankie gets the food from me and takes it down to the "basement" to hide in the bedding. Carli is usually waiting for it. Carli pulls the paper towels that I have in different places to give them a break from the wire bottom of the upper levels, and stuffs them in their tissue box. And as I speak Frankie sniffed out some fresh veggies I left in their food bowl (it usually doesn’t stay full long with Franks near by, but they have just returned to their freshly cleaned cage) and scurried down to the basement with it to eat (: |
||
| 05/11/09 04:50pm |
|
