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 #190393


Sly Hat Jones
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 Oriental Fire Bellied Toad deaths

Hey frog/toad experts:

We bought some Oriental FBTs (Bombina orientalis) and we have a nice water/land setup. One toad died after two days... it didn’t really show much in the way of symptoms, it just got kind of slow and didn’t react much to anything one evening and the next day it was dead.

After a week the other toad seemed fine, it got a bit darker but it was doing fine so we went to a different store (petco) and got another toad. This new toad did just fine for like 2 weeks. The older darker toad is a male probably, because it barks a lot, we thought the new one was probably female because the other one liked to mount it a lot and it only made really quiet noises.

But then two days ago the newer toad suddenly bloated up really big. I thought maybe it was gonna lay eggs, but today it was dead.

Our tank is a 10 gallon tank. We have a big log in there that goes most of the way across the middle, it has an overhang on one side. We filled up the tank on one side of the log with fish-tank gravel to create a land side and the other side has about 2-3 inches of water. On the gravel side we put a little artificial ’cave’ thing for some shelter, and also some live moss. They have a dish over there too which we pushed down into the gravel.

We put in a small filter that goes in one corner, it has a charcoal filter in it and it seems to keep the water fairly clean, but the wood does stain the water a bit, so it looks sort of yellowish. We also put in some small floating plants called American Frogbit.

We put in more water every few days. I mix tap water with ’Stress Coat’ which says on the bottle that it removes chlorine and neutralizes chloramines and detoxifies heavy metals. It also says it has aloe in it which is supposedly good for fish. I dunno if it helps the frogs or not.

I’ve been feeding them with medium crickets and sometimes I put mealworms in the dish. I’ve seen both frogs (the older darker one and the one that just died) eat crickets and mealworms. The mealworms are alive, I just put a few in the dish and a day later most of them are gone, I don’t think they are escaping. The crickets I put in a different little box, it’s like a tiny pet carrier. We put in carrots and also ’gut load’ stuff that they love to eat, and a piece of sponge with water for them.

So I’m wondering why the frogs died? I think the one that just now died might have been because it ate a piece of gravel. They go after the crickets really fast, it could accidentally swallow a piece. Before it died it was really big and swollen, it’s whole abdomen and even its hind legs looked kind of fatter.

But also could it be the mealworms? After they eat a mealworm you can see their little bellies move a bit, I think the worms thrash around a lot. The frogs don’t seem to mind much but it worries me. Another thing is the crickets are not all the same size, when you ask for medium they give you a bag and some are bigger and some are smaller. I’ve seen both frogs gobble down crickets that are really big, they kind of stuff them in their mouths and then jump in the water to help drown the cricket or something.

Another possibility is the temperature. The tank has a screen top so it doesn’t get too hot, the thermometer usually reads between about 68 and about 80. There is a light at the top with two normal bulbs in it but the tank is next to the window so I open the blinds to give them some natural sunlight too. The house has a heater with a thermostat so it shouldn’t get below about 64 at night.

The first frog that died after 2 days didn’t get fat but maybe it was already sick from the store? Or maybe it was handling, we had to take them out a couple of times while we were figuring out the best tank setup.

Here is the frog that just died after we had it in there for about 5 days...
picture 1
picture 2
picture 3

They seem to love the Frogbit, but could it be a problem? What about the mealworms? The guy at the store said they only feed their frogs with crickets, but I have seen other people’s websites that say they can eat mealworms.

Is the chunk of wood a problem? It doesn’t seem to be huring the loud male frog, he’s still acting totally normal. But maybe he’s just tougher than the other ones?

We’re gonna get some dry moss and cover up the gravel, hopefully that will help keep them from eating the pieces. Any other advice guys? I don’t want the last frog to be lonely, he should have more froggy friends but I’d hate to kill more of them, it’s so sad! They’re supposed to live like 10-15 years, not 2-3 weeks!

-SlyHatJones



11/28/04  9:41pm
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 #190487


Sly Hat Jones
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  Message To: Sly   In reference to Message Id: 190393


 Oriental Fire Bellied Toad deaths

OK I took some pictures of my current setup so you can see how the tank looks.



This is a picture of the whole tank. The one frog that is left is hiding in amongst the little green floating plants, kind of under the edge of the log. You can’t really see him.


In this picture above you can see where I put in mealworms. Theres one in there along with some cricket parts. That’s pretty gross, huh? The one mealworm in there was eating parts of a cricket that must have died last night. Yuck.


Here you can see the filter. It’s a Duetto 50 Submersable Power Filter which has a variable flow setting. I have it on a very low setting so it doesn’t disturb the water too much. The frogs seem to like the water being still. The rocks help keep the frogs from getting up against where the intake is. I was worried one might get stuck but probably they are strong enough to resist the current since it’s on so low.

Any advice guys?

-SlyHatJones



11/29/04  12:23am
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 #190646


Scott14
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  Message To: Sly   In reference to Message Id: 190487


 Oriental Fire Bellied Toad deaths

Hi, welcome to the forum.

Wow! you have a very impressive setup!
Thanks alot for the information you gave it has helped alot, Rite im pretty sure the reason your toads have died is because of the mealworms,do you chop of their heads before giving them to your toads? Mealworms are known to eat the linning of the toads stomach if you don’t cut off their heads its not so bad with reptiles because they have teeth to kill the mealworms.
i would soak you wood in boiling water to get rid of the staining!
abd change your pebbles to something bigger
Scott15,



11/29/04  10:29am
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 #190889


Orc Bow Man
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  Message To: Scott14   In reference to Message Id: 190646


 Oriental Fire Bellied Toad deaths

They both died because they ingested a pebble. Those are way too small pebbles change to pebbles that cannot fit in the toads mouths. Mealworms are okay but don’t feed too many to the toads because they are hard to digest for them.



11/29/04  7:57pm
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 #190927


Scott14
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  Message To: Orc   In reference to Message Id: 190889


 Oriental Fire Bellied Toad deaths

mealworms can and will eat the linning of your toads stomach



11/29/04  8:42pm
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 #190976


Rishdude
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  Message To: Scott14   In reference to Message Id: 190927


 Oriental Fire Bellied Toad deaths

I agree



11/29/04  9:30pm
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 #191052


Sly Hat Jones
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  Message To: Rishdude   In reference to Message Id: 190976


 Oriental Fire Bellied Toad deaths

OK thanks guys. We are thinking we will remove some gravel and put something better on top of it so the toads don’t actually toutch or get near the gravel.

No more mealworms I guess. If I cut off the head, how will the toad eat it? They normally seem to only go after things that move. If the mealworm is dead, wouldn’t it stop moving? Or are you guys feeding mealworms by hand somehow? Maybe a long pair of tweezers or something?

Hopefully Survivor Toad will hang on until we have a chance to change the pebbles.

Thanks for all the advice!

-SlyHatJones



11/29/04  10:31pm
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 #191298


Scott14
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  Message To: Sly   In reference to Message Id: 191052


 Oriental Fire Bellied Toad deaths

Thats ok,
Ermm im not sure wether the mealworms still move or not as ive never feed them to my toads but if they dont you can just use a pair of tweezers with foam tips on them(so the toads dont hert themselves)
Scott15,



11/30/04  12:19pm
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