Tortoises - Amphibiandude... listen.

Your Reptile and Amphibian Resource and Information Site

Back to Tortoises Forum Forums Home Members Area

Tortoises Forum

Reptilefreak23 Amphibiandude Reptilefreak23 Reptilefreak23 Dixie31 Dixie31 Reptilefreak23 Dixie31 Reptilefreak23 Dixie31 Reptilefreak23 RepticTay Amphibiandude Reptilefreak23 RepticTay Mikeornata Reptilefreak23 Amphibiandude Mikeornata RepticTay Amphibiandude Amphibiandude RepticTay Amphibiandude

Member

Message

#1730697

Reptilefreak23
View Profile

Amphibiandude... listen.

Ok well first... I am going to walk you through your soon to be new cage setup for your russian tortoise (and food)

OK

1. use ’Zilla terrarium liner’ mixed with ’Zilla alfalfa meal bedding’ (also may use ’eco earth coconut fiber substrate)

2. large walk in water bowl.

3. feeding - go to petco and buy this... its the BEST tortoise diet I have ever seen.
"Zoo-med natural grassland tortoise food"

(also for your baby turtles get "Zoo-med Natural aquatic turtle food. you will have three choices
-hatchling formula
-growth formula
-maintenance formula)

remember your calcium sup.

ANd ps. Im going to tippets house to look at the turtles so wish me luck!!!!!!

05/09/08 09:10pm

#1730702

Amphibiandude
View Profile

Message To: Reptilefreak23 In reference to Message Id: 1730697

Amphibiandude... listen.

dude ive started construction on the vegie garden

05/09/08 09:13pm

#1730703

Reptilefreak23
View Profile

Message To: Amphibiandude In reference to Message Id: 1730702

Amphibiandude... listen.

cool

05/09/08 09:14pm

#1730706

Reptilefreak23
View Profile

Message To: Reptilefreak23 In reference to Message Id: 1730703

Amphibiandude... listen.

BUY THE TORTOISE FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (its great)

05/09/08 09:18pm

#1730781

Dixie31
View Profile

Message To: Reptilefreak23 In reference to Message Id: 1730706

Amphibiandude... listen.

There is no premade tortoise food that is as good as the natural foods. Variety is key in a russian diet. Also, alfalfa meal bedding is ABSOLUTELY not ok for russian tortoises. Its only safe for Carnivorous Reptiles. Here is a link from Zilla’s own website. Link Alfalfa is never ok for russians.

05/09/08 10:54pm

#1730788

Dixie31
View Profile

Message To: Dixie31 In reference to Message Id: 1730781

Amphibiandude... listen.

In addition to what I typed in the previous post here is the russian diet from russiantortoise.org. Its a very good one. I would suggest getting your starting information from there. I have yet to find anything I disagree with on that site.

GREENS
Most grocery stores have a decent selection of greens that Russians readily eat. Ideally the greens should be organic and pesticide free. However this is the real world and not all tortoise keepers have access to "ideal" food. So, I have this section as a starting point for a varied diet. The following greens are easily found in my local stores:
Romaine lettuce
Red and green leaf lettuce
Endive
Escarole
Radicchio
Turnip greens
Mustard greens
Kale
Collards
Spring Mix (mixed salad greens)
cabbage (on occasion)

With the above veggies one can develop a good diet. Once again (and I can’t stress this enough) variety is the key!
Don’t feed the same food day in and day out. Mix varieties and choose a different green as the basis every few days.

OTHER GOOD CHOICES
Some other favorites of my tortoises that are available:
Hibiscus (flowers and leaves)
Hosta
Sedum
Mulberry leaves
Hen and Chicks
Ice Plants
Prickly pear flowers, fruit and pads (burn the spines off)
Dandelion
Plantain (not the banana type fruit....the weed plantago major)
Mallow (flowers and leaves)
Henbit
Rose (flowers and leaves....make sure no systemic pesticides were used)
Chrysanthemum flowers
Cornflowers Plagiobothrys ssp
Forsythia (flowers and leaves)
Dayflower Commelina diffusa (flowers and leaves)
Californian Poppy escholzia

Make sure all are pesticide and herbicide free.

AVOID
The following food items should be avoided for a variety of reasons. there are many books and groups that go into great detail...so I won’t repeat them here. At the end of the page are a few links).
All fruit (although fruit is often recommended, its sugar content can lead
to parasite blooms....just not worth it) the exception is apples due to the high quantity of pectin....but still not frequently.
Iceberg lettuce
Bok Choy
All grains (including bread, pasta etc)
Dog and cat food
Meat
All human food except what’s been listed as "good"
Pellet type foods (An often overlooked factor of pyramiding is grain based diets. These are the pellet food that some claim to be essential to health. They typically contain soy, wheat and or rice. These are high in omega 6 fatty acids which has a negative effect on health. They also have an acidifying effect which causes a leaching of bone. They are high in phytate which binds calcium and other minerals. They also have an unfavorable ca/ph ratio and a low ca/mg ratio which has a negative impact on calcium metabolism. Grains alter Vit D metabolism. Diets high in grains can have a negative impact on bone growth in spite of adequate exposure to sunshine. (http://www.sawellnesscenter.com//nutrition/Diet/Cereal%20article-1.pdf)

05/09/08 11:01pm

#1730800

Reptilefreak23
View Profile

Message To: Dixie31 In reference to Message Id: 1730788

Amphibiandude... listen.

I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!

I have kept tortoises for years.

But you really need to check out this tortoise food I am talking about.

Its not the only thing I give them.... That would be crazy

I know every thing on your posts by heart. But one thing is wrong you are feeding them WAY TO MANY low fiber greens
Their diet should be 70 percent grasses and weeds. For healthy digestive system

If you feed all those greens and vegies to your tortoise ... I am suprised it has ever pooped.

That isnt a healthy diet.. even though they might eat it.

05/09/08 11:38pm

#1730810

Dixie31
View Profile

Message To: Reptilefreak23 In reference to Message Id: 1730800

Amphibiandude... listen.

I certainly hope you aren’t feeding and keeping alfalfa in with your russians as you suggested here. And you are and have been wrong in so many posts about diets in regards to russians. This isn’t the first post you have also suggested the alfalfa as well. I currently have 14 adult russian torts and 4 hatchlings from July ’07 - and have numerous hatchlings every year. I’ve probably been keeping them close to the total time you’ve been on this earth. That said I am not saying I know everything nor am I trying to upset you......but when you give incorrect information it needs to fixed.

The key to a russian diet - as stated previously - is variety. Variety means that you take numerous foods from the "good" lists and mix it up. Grocery store greens can be used when their natural diet is not possible.

05/10/08 12:10am

#1731030

Reptilefreak23
View Profile

Message To: Dixie31 In reference to Message Id: 1730810

Amphibiandude... listen.

I do not feed them alfaflfa... I feed them timothy. (and other stuff obviosly) But their is a ’substrate’ that is recycled parts of alfalfa and other grasses and weeds.

When Have I ever been on a russian forum saying ANYTHING ABOUT ALFALFA????????????????????????????????????????? You show me the post and i will admit my wrongs.

1. I never said ’feed them alfalfa’.
2. I never said ’dont mix it up’

Here are a list of a safe russian diet.

- all grassland tortoises (pancake, greek, russian, hermans,desert, sulcata, leopardetc.) need a a high fiber low protien diet. Lettuces such as romain, green leaf etc. are low in fiber and should be fed as a treat.
(70percent grasses and weeds) and nnone of those greens you listed are calcium rich..... (im not saying you cant feed them but they should not be a staple part of diet)

- mixture of edible grasses and clovers, hibiscus leaves and flowers,and other grass hays, water cress, dandelion, rose leaves and petals should be the 70 percent.

- From World Chelonian Trust. org- "Avoid over reliance upon ’supermarket’ greens and fruits which typically contain inadequate fiber levels, excessive pesticide residues and are too rich in sugar." Once again not saying cant feed it, saying its healthy to be a staple part of diet.

I am enjoying learning things from you and others so this is not personal... we are merely exchanging our beliefs.

Also do have pics of your tortoises.

05/10/08 10:59am

#1731082

Dixie31
View Profile

Message To: Reptilefreak23 In reference to Message Id: 1731030

Amphibiandude... listen.

The substrate you have suggested is only safe for carnivorous reptiles. The reason for this is because they will oftentimes eat it. The link to the manufacturer where it is stated that its for carnivorous reptiles is previously provided. So when you suggest a bedding that tortoises eat and it contains alfalfa, you are feeding them alfalfa. 50/50 playsand and topsoil (bed-a-beast, ect) is a much safer choice.

Secondly - read the information provided instead of glancing at it. The small section of easily found grocery store greens states its a starting point when the ideal diet cannot be used. Even on the Chelonian Trust site it provides the same information. (the one you are quoting from)

Now the next section that was listed above is not supermarket greens. I believe this is what you were referring to with your "weeds" comment.
Hibiscus (flowers and leaves)
Hosta
Sedum
Mulberry leaves
Hen and Chicks
Ice Plants
Prickly pear flowers, fruit and pads (burn the spines off)
Dandelion
Plantain (not the banana type fruit....the weed plantago major)
Mallow (flowers and leaves)
Henbit
Rose (flowers and leaves....make sure no systemic pesticides were used)
Chrysanthemum flowers
Cornflowers Plagiobothrys ssp
Forsythia (flowers and leaves)
Dayflower Commelina diffusa (flowers and leaves)
Californian Poppy escholzia "

Thirdly; thet final section is the "do not". And if you actually go to the site that I list in every post it has a complete listing as well as links to see which foods provide what nutients. Read it. Its quite helpful.

05/10/08 12:32pm

#1731466

Reptilefreak23
View Profile

Message To: Dixie31 In reference to Message Id: 1731082

Amphibiandude... listen.

Thankyou for the correction on the substrate....
But I have never used it before so dont worry.

And I have been to russiantortoise.org many a time, Im not denying what it says .... but adding usefull information to it.

And I do not nead any correction whatsoever on the ’do nots’ though’.
I totaly understand that and have known those things forever

Once again this post is not made to be personal. we are just exchanging and correcting each others Ideas of how things should be.

05/10/08 10:13pm

#1732786

RepticTay
View Profile

Message To: Reptilefreak23 In reference to Message Id: 1731466

Amphibiandude... listen.

O.o alfalfa is really bad for tortoises.

They can get dehydrated and if consumed they can get bad stomach problems i think.

05/12/08 10:06am

#1733490

Amphibiandude
View Profile

Message To: RepticTay In reference to Message Id: 1732786

Amphibiandude... listen.

hi im the dude whos actual tortise started this argument and im srry for watever friendship endings shes caused and i wonder why u two cant just work together to help me with my tortise who is so cute and is on a very good diet of some stuff u both have suggested( except the alphalpha) and poops regularly

05/12/08 09:21pm

#1733593

Reptilefreak23
View Profile

Message To: Amphibiandude In reference to Message Id: 1733490

Amphibiandude... listen.

We were not arguing saunders as I said 3 times before. but exchanging our ideas and correcting each other.

It turns out were more on the same page than we thought. Just understanding each other...... not arguing as I posted 3 times above

and .....NO your tortoise has not been on a goog diet but is pooping regularly

You as I tell you all the time and I hope you have started. ... stop feeding him romain and greenleaf every meal.

He is eating some grasses ...right?

05/12/08 10:29pm

#1734183

RepticTay
View Profile

Message To: Reptilefreak23 In reference to Message Id: 1733593

Amphibiandude... listen.

OK before this gets out of hand, i believe we should just give our ideas and thoughts and leave it be.
if noone takes our advice in then thats their fault and will end up with problems one day.

Romain and greenleaf arent so bad, but should be mixed up with a number of foods like dixie had stated.

Also, russians do not NEED grasses, but it is good for all tortoises to have grass every now and then, unlike sulcatas they need grass ALL the time.

05/13/08 03:35pm

#1734347

Mikeornata
View Profile

Message To: RepticTay In reference to Message Id: 1734183

Amphibiandude... listen.

Hey Dixie do yours eat Dandelion? I cant get mine to touch it.

05/13/08 05:55pm

#1734463

Reptilefreak23
View Profile

Message To: Mikeornata In reference to Message Id: 1734347

Amphibiandude... listen.

Mine do.

You add them to your salad mix and you take out more of the lettuce every day until you get all dandelions

Good Luck!

05/13/08 07:36pm

#1735826

Amphibiandude
View Profile

Message To: Reptilefreak23 In reference to Message Id: 1734463

Amphibiandude... listen.

ok but i do not only feed him lettuce and its not romain its iceburg

05/14/08 10:36pm

#1736100

Mikeornata
View Profile

Message To: Amphibiandude In reference to Message Id: 1735826

Amphibiandude... listen.

Most tortoise owners would agree that iceberg is not the best choice. Because it contains ZERO nutrients. Romaine is way bettter.

05/15/08 09:24am

#1736115

RepticTay
View Profile

Message To: Mikeornata In reference to Message Id: 1736100

Amphibiandude... listen.

I think someone needs to do some more researching.

Romain is fine to feed, but with a mixed diet of other things.

ICEBERG is not good to feed, as mike said it contains NOTHING but water

05/15/08 09:50am