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#2052423
AlexisMS24
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Any advice about my new Sulcata??? 
I am really worried about Sami, my new 2 month old Sulcata. I just got her 2 days ago from a really reliable and knowledgeable family. They have been breeding, loving, and caring for Tortoises for years now. So I really do not think my problem with Sami stems from her previous owner. Anyhow, we did not get her a heat/UV lamp until today and I got her late Tuesday night. Not sure how long it takes a baby Sulcata to suffer from the effects from not having these lamps, hence I am not sure if her acting sick is my fault? =( So around noon today I took her out to bask in the sun as directed by the seller. She was so very happy and running around all spunky. Then after about 15-20 minutes she started bubbling saliva from her mouth. No, not her nose, just her mouth. I only saw her gape her mouth open a couple of times and that was it for that. I also only saw her producing bubbly saliva from her mouth a few times and she stopped after those few times (about 30 minutes in all for that I guess). Then her body was also moving oddly as if breathing hard or finding it difficult to breath. I immediately freaked out thinking maybe she was too hot and brought her in and put her in her shallow water dish. Sami then sat there for possibly 1-2 hours before leaving her dish and just sleeping all day now. I have called several reptile stores and vets, and even the lady I bought her from. Everyone I spoke to thinks she may have a respiratory problem. However, the gal I bought her from thinks she may just have got overheated. So this all happened sometime aroun 1pm today. She has since been calmed down with no more bubbling saliva discharge since that first hour this afternoon. She is not breathing as oddly, but I am still noticing a slight difference than when we first got her. Her nose is clean and has always been with out discharge. Her eyes are also clear with no puffyness. She did eat breakfast and did pee and poop a healthy amount before all of this took place this afternoon. I am hoping that she just got overheated! I also hope that this detailed paragraph of Sami’s day helps someone get a clear picture of exactly what may have happened to her. As of now she is just acting kind of lethargic if I had to guess. She has not moved much since the incident this afternoon. She has been laying under her new heat lamp that we put above her home as of about 2-3 hours ago. Of course along with her UV lamp. She also threw up some of what looks like her breakfast about 30 minutes ago (which would be around 8:45pm) So I basically need a non professional diagnosis and I would also like to know if I should not give her any more water for quite some time. I do not want her to have too much. I know to do the whole soak thing a couple times a week for about 15 minutes. Does that mean she would benefit more if I do not keep her water dish in her aquarium? The thought of her having water only a couple times a week makes me really nervous! Someone tell me which route to go and if I decide to keep her water dish out, then tell me that is more than ok and healthy for sulcatas. Is it possible she overate as well? Her portion was far too big this morning.
To whoever replies...Thanks a million
AlexisMS24!
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08/06/09 11:25pm
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#2052446
AlexisMS24
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Message To: AlexisMS24 In reference to Message Id: 2052423
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
By the way...Is it possible Sami just got really over excited about her new home and surroundings, attention, and freedom?! I mean she was just living with like 12-15 other hatchlings! Is this behavior possible from excited?
Thanks again,
AlexiMS24
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08/07/09 12:27am
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#2052584
Heatseeker
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Message To: AlexisMS24 In reference to Message Id: 2052446
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
Sounds like she just got over heated. I recomend checking this link out. There is a tab just for sulcata owners called sulcata station. I love it. http://tortoiseforum.org/index.php you can get a lot of good advice from many people who have them.
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08/07/09 10:07am
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#2052605
SkumBoss
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Message To: AlexisMS24 In reference to Message Id: 2052423
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
Did she eat anything while outside? I only have experience with russians, but I’ve read a lot about sulcatas. When my russians eat, they are pigs an sometimes salivate more than others. Overheating in that short period of time seems unlikely.
Lack of UVB effects take awhile to do damage, definitely more than 2 days.
My torts breath faster if I put my hand by them without food, or pick them up, I think thats normal, they’re just a little scared.
Throwing up is bad. You may have fed her too late, or too much. My torts eat in the morning, get a treat in the afternoon, and are in bed by 8:30.
If they get too much water it just makes their stool runny, I don’t believe it would make them sick. I’ve been told soak once a week, I spray them daily, one of them soaks in their water bowl a lot, the other never goes in. Leave the water in and let them decide.
As for being excited, I’m guessing jus the opposite. One of my torts didn’t eat the first day I got her. They get stressed out from moving and take some time to get adjusted.
No need to panic just yet. Keep an eye on her and only feed her once in the morning. If you see the bubbly again you need to take her to a vet. If she didn’t have heat for 2 days and the humidity was high it’s likely she got an RI. Again my experience is with russians, but this may help.
Joe
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08/07/09 10:59am
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#2052633
Heatseeker
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Message To: AlexisMS24 In reference to Message Id: 2052423
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
Sorry I didn’t give more info this morning I had to run...
I have two baby sulacatas and one did the "bubbles at the mouth" when I took it out on a really hot day. So now I wait and just take them out in the early morning becuase we are in AZ and it is so hot here right now... I haven’t had any problems with them over heating since. But I have not had them throw up. I had to take it slow with outside time at first becuase they get hot and tired fast so 10 -15 mins and then 20 minutes at a time. I soak mine daily and keep half their enclosure nice and moist to get the humidity up. I also keep water in their enclosure so they can cool off when they need to, its important for them to have access to it :) its how they cool off if they get too hot. keep an eye on it but I don’t think its an RI if there was only bubbles that one time I think she just over heated. Mine also go into their hide after an outing so they can sleep for a bit. Babies get tired a lot. They will eat alot if you let them, what are you feeding her? and what is her set up like? Temps, humidity? Hides?
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08/07/09 12:04pm
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#2052748
AlexisMS24
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Message To: Heatseeker In reference to Message Id: 2052633
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
Thanks so much for your response. Well her one side stay between 95 and 99 according to the thermometer. Her other side is around 83 or 84. Yes she has an easy accessible place to hide (temporary shoe box type dome) that we keep on the cooler side. We put it on that side cause that’s how we saw all of the reptile stores doing it...is that right?! She did not eat anything outside the other day cause she was in an enclosure area and I did not take my eyes off of her even for a second. I don’t understand, she was so happy and zooming around and then the next minute bubbling at the mouth. As of right now she is just laying in her home which is like a long plastic thing my bunny used to live in. It is probably 4 feet long by close to 2 feet high. Its not see through at the bottom so she can not see out. The upper part is see through plastic. The lid is like metal bars and the lamps sit on top of course. The bottom of her home has rabbit pellets spread across it cause that’s what we decided on. As for her food, we partially feed her what the previous gal did, but only for now. Some diet fruit blend for birds. Just a tad and we soak it and mix her veggies in it. We also feed her Zoo Med Natural Grassland Toirtoise Food (that we also soak). They are both found and Petco or Petsmart. I read to just feed them 1/4 cup of food a day. Is that correct? I know everyone does it a little differently. Yes we decided to keep her water dish in there at all times also. And no she only bubbled that one day a couple times with the half hour, which is when I took her out of the heat. But it was not till the evening when I noticed she vomitted her earlier meal. But she has not done either again since. All day today so far she has just snoozing on the heated side of her home. I take her out a bit and talk to her and she responds , but her eyes are closed. Just barely has been opening them all day. How do I know if her eyes are puffy? Hard to tell if one has never seen puffy sulcata eyes before, lol. by the way...do I turn her UVB light off at bedtime also? Or just the heat one?
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08/07/09 03:23pm
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#2052754
AlexisMS24
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Message To: SkumBoss In reference to Message Id: 2052605
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
Thank you so much for your response and for sending me that site as well. No she did not eat anything outside the other day. I had her in an enclosed are since she is so small and I never took my eyes off of her. We did not feed her late the other day. My fiance fed her in morn sometime, but when I came to look at her home I had noticed that he had fed her a lot! I know she had eaten cause she was so messy. She did have 2 bowel movements and urinated quite a bit soon before this all started. Her stool was also solid. Yes I will definately keep an eye on her. I am only worried now because she has not been active all day...just snoozing in her heated side of home. She did not eat today either and is not really opening her eyes much. She does respond when I pick her up though. She tries to open her eyes when I am holding her and does so somewhat. I guess by tomorrow I will really know whether to take her to herp vet or not. My fiance keeps saying she will be fine. But he is at work and I am the miserable one here looking at her! I guess I will keep you all posted on her health. Thanks so much again for your post. i am going to that site you sent me right now!
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08/07/09 03:33pm
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#2052769
Heatseeker
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Message To: AlexisMS24 In reference to Message Id: 2052754
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
Mine are also very young and when I first got them they were very active checking things out and not they sleep alot as they are growing :) But they do wake up during the day and cruise around off and on inbetween naps.
Please take out the rabbit pellets. They are not good for her and she will eat them, too high in protien and the bird food probably is not good either. Hay, Leafy greens and edible weeds like dandelions are best. Spring mix salad is good (no spinach tho) and grass hay (not alfalfa). The tort diet is ok but not as a staple, just ocassionally. She needs humidity so you need a bedding you can add water too, like the bed a beast/sand or potting soil/ sand or cyprus mulch. The two sites I am listing below have food lists that they can and can not eat and lots of really good info. Let me know how it all goes :)
http://www.sulcata-station.org/basics.html
http://africantortoise.com/sulcata.htm
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08/07/09 04:06pm
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#2053331
Reptyelfreek
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Message To: Heatseeker In reference to Message Id: 2052769
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
I also say over heat. I only had one tortoise do it and it scared the crap outa me. I keep my tortoise on Timothy hay so when he gets fed he will sometimes grab a little of the hay too. Since he is a baby he doesnt want to eat the hay but this helps introduce it. And I just spot clean his enclosure. But HEATSEEKER... you sound very knowlegdeable and I was wondering, I always heard these guys should have very little humidity due to the whole desert thing? Let me know cuz I keep Marlins cage dry. I just soak him as much as possible.
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08/08/09 09:29pm
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#2053351
Heatseeker
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Message To: Reptyelfreek In reference to Message Id: 2053331
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
Thanks. I have been spending a lot of time doing research and hanging out on a few different forums as well. I have had one of my box turtles for 19 yrs but have only had my sulcata babies for a month.
Well they are from a very arid place but they burrow down 20-30 feet and poo n pee in the tunnel so it gets very humid. you don’t want the whole enclosure to be moist but at least half of it. I poor water on one half of mine every morning and mix it in. The heat light drys out the top layer so it won’t cause shell problems but underneath it stays moist to creat the right humidity. Without the humidity they can get pyramiding and have other problems. I also keep their deep hide moist and they seem to really like it. I would change the substrate to a mix of sand/cior or sand/soil 50/50 or 70/30 with less sand or even cypress mulch (i hear its less dusty)and if you want you can put a small pile of the hay in one corner for hiding and burrowing in. You can also soak it in water and offer small amounts chopped up with the greens or grind it up dry in a coffee grinder and sprinkle over their greens too :)
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08/08/09 10:00pm
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#2053366
Reptyelfreek
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Message To: Heatseeker In reference to Message Id: 2053351
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
Yea I’m about to upgrade his enclosure cuz he’s growing out of it already. I told myself that I would find a more suitable substrate then. The hay is just so easy to burrow in for the little guys cuz it doesn’t take alot to move. But I do notice him scratching alot more so I need to make the new arrangements soon. Marlin actually almosts hates his cage. He gets the run of the apt for the most part and lots of natural sun since its summer. He really only eats in there. Anyway but I will definately try some of those ideas when I upgrade him. I’m sure he’ll love soil to dig in
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08/08/09 10:25pm
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#2053374
Heatseeker
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Message To: Reptyelfreek In reference to Message Id: 2053366
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
I used some bricks to make the hide and coverd it with the dirt mix. I dug it out inside for them and they dig some too. I think the hay is good but maybe just for one area. I tried to post the pic earlier but it didn’t show so lets see if it works this time :) for their next home i will go with a bigger storage container that is darker in color or I will build a tort table.
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08/08/09 10:36pm
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#2053732
KritterKeeper
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Message To: Heatseeker In reference to Message Id: 2053374
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
it looks good. id make the water dish a bit bigger tho. mine always love soaking.
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08/09/09 03:10pm
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#2053779
Heatseeker
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Message To: KritterKeeper In reference to Message Id: 2053732
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
It is deeper now but I have to be careful, one of them flips over all the time (his name is Flip). I also soak mine every morning.
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08/09/09 04:31pm
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#2059297
AlexisMS24
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Message To: Reptyelfreek In reference to Message Id: 2053331
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
Sorry I am just now thanking you for your response, for I have been out of town. I have read over and over and also asked my herp vet, and also a few reptile stores about the humidity amount for Sulcatas. They do NOT need a lot of humidity and too much can cause respiratory problems. I have a couple of thermometers and it tells me the humidity for my tortoise on that side of her home. The amount of humidity I have it set at is just right. Also, every single reptile store I have ventured into (about 7) keeps the rabbit pellets down in their aquarium. So I think I will stay with that. I spend a majority part of my day in the same room as my tortoise and I have yet to see her eating the pellets. However, I learned that they may nibble here and there on them, but it will not hurt them in any way. Thanks again for responding. And by the way, it must have been the heat for Sami is back to her old self again! Yayyyyy =0)
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08/18/09 02:21am
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#2059299
AlexisMS24
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Message To: Heatseeker In reference to Message Id: 2052769
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
Sorry I am just now thanking you for your response, for I have been out of town. I have read over and over and also asked my herp vet, and also a few reptile stores about the humidity amount for Sulcatas. They do NOT need a lot of humidity and too much can cause respiratory problems. I have a couple of thermometers and it tells me the humidity for my tortoise on that side of her home. The amount of humidity I have it set at is just right. I made a mistake in a previous post about her humidity level. It stays around 41-43 I believe. Also, every single reptile store I have ventured into (about 7) keeps the rabbit pellets down in their aquarium. So I think I will stay with that for now, or at least until I find something we both prefer even more. I spend a majority part of my day in the same room as my tortoise and I have yet to see her eating the pellets. However, I learned that they may nibble here and there on them, but it will not hurt them in any way. Thanks again for responding. And by the way, it must have been the heat that set her off that day, for Sami is back to her old self again! Yayyyyy =0)
I do have another important question though, while I am writing you. I really want to make sure she gets enough of her veggies. Is it ok to alternate feeding her certain things each day? Right now I have been feeding her shredded carrots, cuccumber, romaine lettuce and I put the calcium on it once a week. Can I just sprinkle a dash all over her veggies, or just on the lettuce? Can I feed her one main veggie on one day and then a different veggie on the next? I just want to get a good pattern down. And of course I still give her a lil bit of her Zoomeds Grassland pellet. Oh and thank you for sending me those links. Was thoughtful of you!
Take Care!
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08/18/09 02:29am
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#2059419
Heatseeker
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Message To: AlexisMS24 In reference to Message Id: 2059299
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
I really suggest you read those links and go to that other forum http://tortoiseforum.org/forum-3.html
There are people there who have had sulcata’s for years and know a lot about them.
Please read the diet list of off http://africantortoise.com/sulcata.htm it can really help you when feeding and yes you can feed one thing at a time as long as you are rotating it. With babies I use calcium at every day, sprinkled on lightly.
Vets are still learning and don’t know as much about reptiles as they do other animals.
I’m sorry but they do need humidity to a point... not soaking wet and not as much as a redfoot tort, but some. Those pellets will not be able to provide any humidity, you can not get them wet. Humidity does help their shells, eyes and keeps them from getting dehydrated when they are young.
the following is off of sulcata website: http://www.sulcata-station.org/basics.html
Supplemental humidity sources
The smaller a tortoise is, the more easily it can become dehydrated. If you have a hatchling or juvenile tortoise, you should be aware that it can become severely dehydrated, literally overnight, if its habitat conditions are not corrected to prevent this.
You should provide a supplemental humidity source in the tortoise’s enclosure – in addition to a shallow water bowl – to prevent overnight dehydration. One way to provide supplemental humidity is to pile up a deep, moisture-holding substrate like Sphagnum moss or Bed-A-Beast® in one corner of the tortoise’s enclosure where the tortoise can dig in and sleep overnight. Make sure to keep this corner moistened.
Another way to provide supplemental humidity is to provide a hide box with a dampened sponge attached inside it. To do this, find a large plastic storage container (make sure that your tortoise will fit inside easily). Discard the container lid. Cut a doorway large enough for your tortoise in the side of the container, glue a cellulose sponge to the inside-bottom of the container, then invert it and put it into your tortoise’s enclosure. Make sure to dampen the sponge regularly.
Anyway I hope you do some research of your own so that your baby will get what he needs... please check out all those sites I gave you.
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08/18/09 09:43am
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#2059640
Reptyelfreek
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Message To: Heatseeker In reference to Message Id: 2059419
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
I also strongly agree with heatseeker. I have had sulcatas on and off for a few years and your always learning somthing new. Also, you cant always believe what pet stores are saying. I am sorry to say I have this knowledge first hand as my parents owned a pet store and alot of the times just to keep costs down, everybody had the same substate. Also they hope that the animal gets sold sooner then not and that they’ll do research and put them on what they choose. My sulcata always gets a little of his substrate in his mouth when he eats. Even if it cant fit now it will at sometime. And it might not hurt him now but eventually it will be too much protein. But the humidity thing can be different depending on where you live. I do suggest making sure your sulcata has a water dish in its cage but my house is already really humid so I dont spray my sulcatas cage down. Maybe when he is a little older I will keep his hide a little moister. Also food choices can be varied. I keep my sulcata on a basic few things then add a couple things here and there to give him variety. But you should try to keep his food as close to what natural things he would eat. I would definetly think twice about any pellets. Also make sure you dont feed it to many veggies or fruit. A good staple diet in greens and grasses are best. With just a little veggies and friuts everyonce in awhile. And those sites are definetly the best out there so keep those in mind when you have any questions. Hope this helps
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08/18/09 02:51pm
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#2065916
AlexisMS24
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Message To: Heatseeker In reference to Message Id: 2059419
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
Promise to do! Thanks a million!!! :0)
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08/31/09 04:20pm
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#2065918
AlexisMS24
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Message To: Reptyelfreek In reference to Message Id: 2059640
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
Thanks a million!!! :0)
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08/31/09 04:21pm
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#2066100
Mjli nuogenerm
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Message To: AlexisMS24 In reference to Message Id: 2065918
Any advice about my new Sulcata???
i am not sure if this information will be relevant to you or not but it possible that your sulcata has acquired a bacterial infection due to the enclosure it is being kept in. if there was a rabbit previously kept in that enclosure recently, within a year, then it is possible that the bacteria from one animal is causing the illness in the other. reptiles should not be kept in an enclosure that has previously housed mammals as the bacteria that would normally be beneficial to the mammal are often harmful or fatal to reptiles and can remain in the enclosure and on the cage decorations and bowls etc for years after the mammal has been removed. my advice would be that if you intend to keep the sulcata in that enclosure make sure that it has been cleaned and disinfected thoroughly using a dilute bleach solution.
like i said this information may not be relevant if you have cleaned and disinfected the enclosure previously or if a rabbit was never actually present in the enclosure.
i wish you the best of luck with your new baby. i have two sulcatas that are 3 and 4, both raised since birth and they are some of the best pet i own. feel free to ask any other questions you have and the other forum members and i will do our best to give you the best information possible to ensure your baby a happy and healthy life.
Cheers,
MJLI
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09/01/09 12:47am
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