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Rainforest View Profile |
Requested Thread
I’ve found that some species do well when mixed and some don’t. I’ve done some harmless experimenting on what can live together and what can’t. Nothing died or was harmed. I don’t have any pictures because my dad broke the camera on a bike ride and he’s working to get the exact same one Right now I have a 30 gallon long. I used a piece of glass(Seamed so it won’t cut the animals) and used 100% silicone seal it onto the glass. The purpose of this was to provide a terrestrial area as well as an aquatic area with a couple islands and such. I placed the glass so it divided the tank about in half. I didn’t measure it, because it doesn’t have to be perfectly half On one side, I put coconut fiber substrate with a water bowl, a cave, and a couple of live plants. On the other side, a layered the bottom with large pebbles(Way too big to eat). I placed a couple of fake plants(I have trouble keeping live plants alive in the water) in and a huge filter(the biggest one I could find). I piled up some flat rocks and put a small lilly pad(fake) as well as a plant that’s meant to hang(Provides different water levels where they can sit at). Then, I filled the water about four inches(there is no open water except one hole I left in the middle for swimming). I got them a UVB/UVA light and placed that on one side of the tank, a digital thermometer and humidity measurer I tried a mandarin salamander on the terrestrial part, a fire belly toad in the aquatic part, and(Yeah, yeah, very stupid idea) a fire belly newt in the aquatic part as well. I couldn’t quite figure out a way to get the temperatures to work right(I was thinking cold water on the bottom, where the newt was, and warm water on the top, where the toad was. But it didn’t work out) I gave the newt back to where it came from. By the way, I bought these guys all from the same store. They were divided by plastic dividers with big wholes all over them(Plus the mandarin salamander dug into the FBT’s tank) so I figured what’s the point of quarantining since they’re all in contact I tried an anole, but it didn’t seem happy, so I moved it to a 20 tall I tried a green tree frog, but it didn’t seem happy so I moved it to the same 20 tall I also tried a red legged walking frog, but decided it just wasn’t a good idea and gave it to a friend who loves owning them So I settled on two fire belly toads and a mandarin salamander in the terrestrial/aquatic tank, and an anole and green tree frog in the arboreal tank. Now to answer the questions people asked: The FBTs and the mandarin salamander have lived healthy lives in that tank for about 6 months now. The tank is a thirty long for terrestrial/aquatic and a 20 tall for arboreal I keep both of them at 60-70 humidity and 70-80 temperature A fire belly toad died in the first month, but I believe that was from too many wax worms The mandarin salamander has a water bowl on the terrestrial side and I’ve never seen the FBTs anywhere but the aquatic area(Mind you, I watch them A LOT) Questions? Suggestions? Comments? |
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| 08/18/08 09:29pm |
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Amphibiandude View Profile |
Message To: Rainforest In reference to Message Id: 1835603 Requested Thread
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| 08/18/08 10:33pm |
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Rainforest View Profile |
Message To: Amphibiandude In reference to Message Id: 1835669 Requested Thread
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| 08/18/08 10:35pm |
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Amphibiandude View Profile |
Message To: Rainforest In reference to Message Id: 1835671 Requested Thread
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| 08/18/08 10:48pm |
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Rainforest View Profile |
Message To: Amphibiandude In reference to Message Id: 1835689 Requested Thread
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| 08/18/08 10:50pm |
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Rrrragdoll View Profile |
Message To: Rainforest In reference to Message Id: 1835692 Requested Thread
What in your experiments told you that it didn’t work with each species? (why you removed them?) |
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| 08/18/08 11:38pm |
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Rainforest View Profile |
Message To: Rrrragdoll In reference to Message Id: 1835735 Requested Thread
I removed the fire bellied newt because I knew I was stressing it out by not keeping the water cold enough. It wasn’t fair to the newt. I removed the anole, not because it was getting sick or stressed out, but because it always seemed a bit restless, so I decided it would be more fair to give it a taller tank to climb higher. I was going to give it back, but I had grown attached to her, so I used a spare 20 gallon. I removed the green tree frog for the same reason as the anole I removed the red legged walking frog because it was making me nervous by always going to the deep water. I thought it might drown. |
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| 08/18/08 11:45pm |
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Ammeratsu View Profile |
Message To: Rainforest In reference to Message Id: 1835741 Requested Thread
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| 08/18/08 11:53pm |
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Jboogy23 View Profile |
Message To: Ammeratsu In reference to Message Id: 1835747
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| 08/19/08 12:33am |
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Rainforest View Profile |
Message To: Jboogy23 In reference to Message Id: 1835777 Requested Thread
I think it was a good question, J(Mind if I call you that?). It gives you a chance to see lots of peoples’ opinions. But, in the end, it’s up to you to decide who’s opinion you trust the most. |
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| 08/19/08 12:39am |
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Hoppy View Profile |
Message To: Rainforest In reference to Message Id: 1835786 Requested Thread
Experimenting is fine.... Many though don’t wish to put their species at risk especially when they have bonded with their pet or the expense of risking vet bills etc... Its your choice on what you do but a true experimentation is only considered sucessful when the inhabitants have reached full maturity near their full life times together and in exactly the same set up with say 10 specimens of each and only two together at a time... or more tanks needed.... A full experimentation is costly and work and research must be documented by date and pics etc... So until you reach success this way I wouldn’t encourage others to do it until yours have reached this point of maturity. By then you can see if they die of illness or eachother or attack etc...depending on species.. Its always ok to try anything at YOUR OWN RISK with YOUR OWN PETS but try not to encourage others to do so without knowing all risks or them knowing they are risking their pets... Good luck with your experiment... HOPPY |
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| 08/19/08 07:15am |
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Amphibiandude View Profile |
Message To: Hoppy In reference to Message Id: 1835885 Requested Thread
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| 08/19/08 02:44pm |
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Reptilefreak23 View Profile |
Message To: Amphibiandude In reference to Message Id: 1836169 Requested Thread
BUT A TWENTY TALL with amphibian and a anole??????????????? you should go to the anole forum and see how they think about that. Sry I am really not trying to be mean but I think it may be inhumane to do that, they CAN live together (rarley) But it will require like a 50tall tank. and also its crowded it usually 1 anole per twenty hight and one tree frog per twenty high. (or 2 with the tree frogs) But I am just going to harn you there will be a horrible outcome... I tried it thought it was all fine, but little did I know that I doomed them to die, if it wasnt the EXTREMELY DEADLY diseases that transfered to to the reptile or to the amphibian. it was the extreme STRESS. i can gauranty that your frog is usually burrowed and is a dark color and your anole usually has black behind its eye. Once again im not trying to be mean but im just stating this from my experiance and how i know to keep healthy reptiles and amphibians |
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| 08/19/08 05:11pm |
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Reptilefreak23 View Profile |
Message To: Reptilefreak23 In reference to Message Id: 1836300 Requested Thread
Quote: People who start out mixing species will usually continue to do so regardless of any advice. They ask the question to justify what they are doing. Unfortunately, the Anoles suffer from a reduction in lifespan when sharing an enclosure with another species.
and this was on the same topic |
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| 08/19/08 05:14pm |
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Amphibiandude View Profile |
Message To: Reptilefreak23 In reference to Message Id: 1836307 Requested Thread
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| 08/19/08 05:16pm |
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Rainforest View Profile |
Message To: Amphibiandude In reference to Message Id: 1836310 Requested Thread
2)From what I’ve heard, it’s 10 gallons per anole and 10 gallon per frog. 3)Then your guarantee is incorrect. My GTF is usually a light, leafy green with the exception of being olive green when it’s on the ground. My anole is always light green and sometimes light brown. Her eyes are perfectly normal. 4) Alright, guys, I understand the reptile/amphibian thing. I’ll give the anole away once I find a good home for her. |
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| 08/19/08 05:32pm |
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Lovebug_lovr View Profile |
Message To: Rainforest In reference to Message Id: 1836331 Requested Thread
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| 08/19/08 05:36pm |
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Rainforest View Profile |
Message To: Lovebug_lovr In reference to Message Id: 1836339 Requested Thread
I know I don’t have to listen to them, but I think this is perfectly reasonable, so I’m just going to do what’s best for her. The disease thing really is an issue. |
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| 08/19/08 05:44pm |
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Lovebug_lovr View Profile |
Message To: Rainforest In reference to Message Id: 1836350 Requested Thread
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| 08/19/08 05:49pm |
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Rainforest View Profile |
Message To: Lovebug_lovr In reference to Message Id: 1836356 Requested Thread
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| 08/19/08 06:01pm |
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Lovebug_lovr View Profile |
Message To: Rainforest In reference to Message Id: 1836371 Requested Thread
I am just wondering. i am not going to like break in or anything. hahah |
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| 08/19/08 06:08pm |
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Rainforest View Profile |
Message To: Lovebug_lovr In reference to Message Id: 1836387 Requested Thread
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| 08/19/08 06:21pm |
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Lovebug_lovr View Profile |
Message To: Rainforest In reference to Message Id: 1836407 Requested Thread
Well, from me living in there natural habitat none i have seen are in groups. i have seen 2 together but that is because they were mating. |
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| 08/19/08 06:38pm |
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Reptilefreak23 View Profile |
Message To: Lovebug_lovr In reference to Message Id: 1836429 Requested Thread
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| 08/19/08 07:14pm |
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Reptilefreak23 View Profile |
Message To: Reptilefreak23 In reference to Message Id: 1836475 Requested Thread
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| 08/19/08 07:15pm |
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Rainforest View Profile |
Message To: Reptilefreak23 In reference to Message Id: 1836478 Requested Thread
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| 08/19/08 07:19pm |
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Rrrragdoll View Profile |
Message To: Rainforest In reference to Message Id: 1836487 Requested Thread
This is precisely why I asked how long you’ve been doing this and everything. What you could do is instead of telling people it is ok, tell them "look I’ve tried several ways to do this and it just hasn’t worked out" "my animals seemed to not be doing well so I moved them into their own enclosures or rehomed them because I didn’t want to stress them further". Instead you continue to promote it. In the case of an earlier person stating you’d need at least a 50gal tank to mix the two (anole and frog i think) the purpose they are conveying is that in a larger tank like that they have the ability to get far away from each other if needed. Granted a single animal would be fine in a 10 gal. BTW I really wouldn’t consider a 30 long tank arboreal either, they are about 12" tall, hardly room to cllimb. Now take a 20L and flip it on end and that is a different story. I have mine in a 29 gal which is 18" tall and they would go higher if they could. My newest tank is 24" tall. I think there is something to say also about your statement of if people trust you they can choose what to do. The point is when new people come on and don’t know anyone from anyone they may take statements like you said as being reliable and knowledgeable and do it, not knowing all the facts. |
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| 08/20/08 02:34am |
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Froggy&Gribbit View Profile |
Message To: Rrrragdoll In reference to Message Id: 1836897 Requested Thread
There is now evidence at all in his experience that shows the safety or success of mixing any animal species let alone different treefrogs!! As I said in the last thread. If people read what he says the evidence clearly goes agains his argument |
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| 08/20/08 11:07am |
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Froggy&Gribbit View Profile |
Message To: Rrrragdoll In reference to Message Id: 1836897 Requested Thread
Just because it is harder to tell that amphibians are stressed or unhappy it DOES NOT make it ok for us to experiment at the animals cost. Not when there is clearly enough evidence already out there showing these "experiments" people want to try are unsuccessful. And honestly how many are truly taking a scientific approach that could be counted in the scientific world as evidenc??? This thread show us what kind of "experience" and time we are talking about. Beyond our own desires for what we would "like" the wellbeing of the animals MUST be put first. And sorry but "I reckon they are happy" and "in my opinion" just doesn’t cut it!!! |
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| 08/20/08 11:20am |
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Hoppy View Profile |
Message To: Froggy&Gribbit In reference to Message Id: 1837053 Requested Thread
The idea of my post was to point out that the treatment of mixing species was risky and could cause ill health and hiding under the term ’scientific’ was absurd.... I agree there is ample evidence of mixing being the cause of ill health of the inhabitants as all of us can attest to... Individual owners however wrong risk their pets/amphibians everyday.... I’m not saying they should...I’m saying not to encourage others to do the same... If they want to risk their own there is nothing anyone can do unfortuntely as most is done behind closed doors only know the risks.... The only time its interferred with under animal cruelty etc is if ’abuse’ is present or neglect.... Mixing with amphibians doesn’t fall into this category mostly because they are low on the food chain...... The crickets and worms and spiders etc could all be argument for abuse on mixing depending passions of the person viewing... Frogs unfortunately a food source for many birds and reptiles fall into the insect stigma.... .................................................. Thought should also be taken; At least this member had the courage to come forward and say this is what they were doing on this post. They certainly didn’t have to; so must be praised for their courage to do so.... It doesn’t mean we have to agree but much must be said for someone with courage to go against the mainstream... Even so this person has now learned alot and may possibly do what is best for his pets and leave science to those with the right facilities..... Hopefully others will of learned from this post...’ mixing is a no no...Individual tank per species Please.. HOPPY |
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| 08/20/08 05:13pm |
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Requested Thread| Pages 1 |