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 #1682007


XKairos_hXc
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 *sigh* uro woes

Okay, so my Uro is one of the most active creatures ever. I have had him a few months and nothing about his cage set-up has changed, temps are fine, diet is great.

Normally he wakes up at 9am or so, poops, eats runs around, poops, and then sleeps. Everything has been normal until friday morning. I woke up at 12p and he wasn’t up. Okay, maybe he’s tired you know around 1-130 he wakes up and stays up late that night running around and eating until about 7p, normal activites.

Saturday morning comes and he’s not up again! So, I figure okay I’ll wait, well 4pm rolls around and I’m worried. So I lift the hide up and he gives me this "pissed off" look, so I knew he was okay and set it back down and let him sleep. I figured maybe he wore himself out and needed a full day.

Well, now it’s Sunday and he is not out, yet again. I am a little worried, I don’t know if this is normal behavior for them to do this sometimes, or if I have a problem. He is healthy and I haven’t noticed any changes in behavior other than this.

One other thing is that he no longer sleeps on the hotside. Thursday night was the first night he slept under his hide on the cool side and woke up late Friday afternoon and has been sleeping there since.

Any help or information would be wonderful, thank you.
03/30/08  01:22pm

 #1682019


Pinecone
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1682007


 *sigh* uro woes

how cool is the cool side? sometimes when a uro sleeps in a cool spot they take longer to wake up
03/30/08  01:30pm

 #1682077


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: Pinecone   In reference to Message Id: 1682019


 *sigh* uro woes

lower to mid 80’s. He hasn’t gotten up at all though, that’s my worry, it wouldn’t be too big of a deal if he just got lazier.
03/30/08  02:04pm

 #1682111


Tut Tut
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1682077


 *sigh* uro woes

Have you had a recent fecal done? Could be parasites. My female Egypt had roundworms and she became very lethargic. She started meds a few weeks ago and is now extremely active.
03/30/08  02:23pm

 #1682118


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: Tut Tut   In reference to Message Id: 1682111


 *sigh* uro woes

Awesome(that your uro is doing better) and no I haven’t. How would I go about doing this?

He isn’t even coming out to poop so, I can’t get one, and if he does what do I do, just scoop it up, put it into a plastic bag and bring it to the vet?

Should I lift his hide and move him?
03/30/08  02:25pm

 #1682220


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1682118


 *sigh* uro woes

So I checked again and he opened his eyes. left him a some dandelion greens infront of his exit as well as on top of one of his rocks hoping I could bribe him out, he looks fine, no abnormal signs or anything. Should I just put him on the hot side on his basking rock? I am kind of nervous.
03/30/08  03:41pm

 #1682455


Skullkeeper
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1682007


 *sigh* uro woes

First what is the size of your cage , ( actual measurements ) , the type of substrate , size and species of your uro , how many and what types of thermometers , exactly what are your basking , ambient , cool end and night time temps , what are you feeding him and are you using any supplements ? A temp . change of just a few degrees can change your Uro’s activity .Is he in a cage by himself ? No matter what I would collect a fresh stool sample in a baggie and take to a good reptile vet asap to be checked for parasites .It would also be helpful if you could post a picture of the Uro and enclosure .
03/30/08  06:33pm

 #1682576


Pinecone
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   Message To: Skullkeeper   In reference to Message Id: 1682455


 *sigh* uro woes

You might want to fill out the "Read before posting"
03/30/08  07:27pm

 #1682595


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: Skullkeeper   In reference to Message Id: 1682455


 *sigh* uro woes

it’s a 40 gallon breeder (36x18x16 I think). Washed play sand. 6" or so last I checked(maybe a little bigger now) he’s under a year I believe. Mali Uromastyx, I have one digital thermometer with a probe and an IR temp gun. Night temps in the 70’s. Day temp is 80-85 on cool side and 95-105 on warm side. Basking site is arouind 110-115. (My Mega Ray went out a few weeks back and I’m using a different bulb til I get the new one in the mail normally it’s around 120-125ish) He gets Belgian Endive, Endive lettuce, escarole lettuce, dandelion greens, sometimes bok choy once a week or so, I’ll sprinkle mazuri pellets on his food every-every other day. Once or twice a week I will dust his food with miner-all. In a cage is by himself.

Now for tons of pics: (sorry the enclosure ones are not very good.)














03/30/08  07:41pm

 #1682600


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1682595


 *sigh* uro woes

btw he is getting a bigger cage in a few, he’s still small enough where this is a good size for him I do believe, but within a few months I will be purchasing something much larger for him. Just doing research on which one to get him
03/30/08  07:43pm

 #1682609


Morsel
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1682600


 *sigh* uro woes

Could there be some digestive issues with the sand? Like a blockage?



03/30/08  07:46pm

 #1682622


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: Morsel   In reference to Message Id: 1682609


 *sigh* uro woes

There never has been before, I mean I guess I can not rule it out, however he has been pooping regularly, the last day before he went to sleep he had pooped like regular as well.
03/30/08  07:51pm

 #1682707


Pinecone
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1682622


 *sigh* uro woes

Umm there shouldn’t be mesh between the light and your lizard, it effectively eliminates up to 50%(standard mesh) of your UV rays...secondly I noticed in many of your pictures when your lizard is basking he/she has their head down...I’ve come to think that when uros have their legs sprawled out liek that, and even have their head down, it means they’re trying to get as much heat as possible out of the rock...this roughly translates to the fact that your tank might not be hot enough...invest in a $25 IR gun and you’ll be shocked at how low your temps actually are
-Ray-
03/30/08  08:31pm

 #1682751


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: Pinecone   In reference to Message Id: 1682707


 *sigh* uro woes

It’s a self ballasted mercury vapor bulb. You’re thinking of a regular UVB UVA flourescent if I am not mistaken. I also do have an IR temp gun so I know my temps are correct. He only has his head down in one pic btw. I do appreciate the advice, but it seems like your fishing for reasons to say I am not taking care of him. Maybe I took it wrong, but again, I don’t believe the mesh rule applies to the type of bulb I am using
03/30/08  08:51pm

 #1683016


Tut Tut
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1682751


 *sigh* uro woes

On the fecal issue, yes, scoop it up and stick it in a zip lock bag. If you cant take it immediately to the vet (they will usually let you drop it off without an appointment) then put it in the refrigerator and try to get it in to them within 24 hours for a float and a smear.

Of course, this is contingent upon your uro pooping.

Best of luck!
03/30/08  10:39pm

 #1683054


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: Tut Tut   In reference to Message Id: 1683016


 *sigh* uro woes

Thanks :) I’ll keep everyone posted, if anyone has any other ideas, let me know.

Anyone have an opinion on if I should wake him up tomorrow and drag his poopie head on the rock see if that helps?
03/30/08  11:01pm

 #1683123


Doublemom
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1683054


 *sigh* uro woes

Ditto on collecting a fecal sample and keeping it in the fridge, and getting it to a reptile vet asap to check for parasites. If I read right, you said you had changed his basking bulb within the last few weeks? I know that most everyone who has megarays reports a much higher activity level, maybe a change in the bulb/basking temp could be causing him to slow down?

Another thought is that my Uros (3) tend to get really lazy and sleepy a few days before starting to shed. At first I worried about it, but now that I’ve seen this pattern in them, it doesn’t worry me as much.

One more thought... have you tried bee pollen? There is a lot of good info on this forum about where to get it and how to use it, try doing a search. It’s a good thing to try to stimulate appetite :)

Keep us posted :)

Andi
03/31/08  12:21am

 #1683136


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: Doublemom   In reference to Message Id: 1683123


 *sigh* uro woes

I will try and do the fecal sample on Friday as that is my day off, I have been meaning to do that for good measure anyway.

Yep, you did read correct, my megaray died after a whopping one month use, coincidentally a few days after I threw the receipt and packaging away from Deer Fern Farms. It may be part of the reason, but he never had a problem with the other basking lamp before.

Just the other day I looked at him and he looked like he was going to start shedding, he has grown alot over the last few months but hasn’t shed in a while, I hope that is all it is.

The bee pollen sounds like a great idea, I read about it alot and actually was going to get some this weekend for him. His appetite doesn’t seem to be the problem though, he literally hasn’t moved from his hide in 2 days now. :- I’m giving him time, but tomorrow I think I am waking the little guy up and if anything at least maybe that will get him to do something, who knows.

Anyway, I just wanted to say Andi, that you have been most helpful since I started on this board with informative posts, so thank you for that.

I will keep you guys posted, and let you know what I find, any other suggestions keep them coming and thanks in advance!
03/31/08  12:40am

 #1683143


MissAnne2u
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1683136


 *sigh* uro woes

Quote:

I threw the receipt and packaging away from Deer Fern Farms.



YOu can still exchange it with ReptileUV.com. Call them and get an "No Receipt" ARM number. I had to do that. YOu send the old one to them and they send you a new one.



03/31/08  12:58am

 #1683314


Pinecone
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   Message To: MissAnne2u   In reference to Message Id: 1683143


 *sigh* uro woes

I’m not fishing for reasons to say you’re not taking care of him...That wasn’t what I was trying to say...I was simply suggesting he might be cold...In regards to the bulb, it does not matter if it’s megaray or not. The screen still blocks the UV rays no matter what bulb it is. I would suggest you find a way to remove the screen. 50% less UV rays, is not a good thing ’cause you can’t properly estimate the amount getting to your uro.

Think about it logically: Each one of those strands is blocking light,right? Take the mesh and hold the light and wave the mesh underneath, doesn’t it look like there’s a cloud over the bottom of the tank?

-Ray-
03/31/08  09:31am

 #1683345


Skullkeeper
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1682595


 *sigh* uro woes

Here are a few suggestions - you may want to put his tank in another place . I notice that you have it in between two couches in the center of the room . He may be frightened . You might also want to cover 3 sides of the tank with aquarium back ground or even cut up brown paper bags . That will give him a more secure feeling . He maybe seeing his reflection in the glass . Movement over top of the cage will cause shadows and scare a Uro also .In the wild a shadow over head could mean a predator about to eat you .It also looks like you only have one hide . I would have at least two , one at each end of the tank .My guess is hes frightened and still getting acclimated to his new home . You will need to suspend your UVB light under the screen . A florescent bulb does not get hot and can be much closer to the Uro . That’s what I prefer . Just have a 10.0 or higher and be prepared to change the bulb at least ever 5 -6 months .Hope that helps .
03/31/08  10:10am

 #1683351


Skullkeeper
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   Message To: Skullkeeper   In reference to Message Id: 1683345


 *sigh* uro woes

I see that there is one hide under slate . Uro’s want low dark hides so that he can feel it against his back . It looks like its low enough but they would not want two entrances to the hide . In the wild they push their tail up against the opening to keep predators out. He can not block both sides . Try moving the one hide so that there is only one way in . I think I would still add another hide in the warm end . He may not like the one that is there . Then he can choose the one he likes .If he continues to act unusual I would get a fecal check done . It will not hurt , better to spend a few bucks and be on the safe side .
03/31/08  10:17am

 #1684526


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: Skullkeeper   In reference to Message Id: 1683345


 *sigh* uro woes

His tank is actually away from everything. There is a futon next to it, but it’s actually in my personal bedroom. I don’t sleep there I sleep in the other bed in my room, that used to be like a seperate living room until I got him, I covered the coffee table and that entire part of the room does not get visited by anyone.

I will try the 3 sides of aquarium paper, any suggestions on where would be a place to get a nice set? I assumer this goes on the outside of the glass so that the Uro doesn’t scratch it?

I do have two seperate hides, one is not quite as low, but he sleeps there sometimes.

I like the Mega Ray for it’s heating abilities, are you suggesting a fluorescent on top of the mega ray(well suspended under the screen of course)? If so I will pick one up immediately so long as it won’t be "too much" UV rays

Thanks so much for the help.
Any rebuttle or question I ask is meant to be informative and not defensive, as well as to get my bearings straight, so if anything comes off "ifyish" I don’t want it to seem that way. Thanks again guys
03/31/08  10:25pm

 #1684539


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: Skullkeeper   In reference to Message Id: 1683351


 *sigh* uro woes

I will build him another hide on the hot side as well, that is low. My first thought is that he outgrew the one, but he’s back under there tonight. Do you have any suggestions on how to build a hide that has only one way in?

Speaking of which I woke him up this morning, I couldn’t bare going to work this morning not knowing if he was gonna eat, so I did (I’m sure disturbing him wasn’t the smartest or most highly recomended approach) Anyway he got up ran around I left him some food right before I left and almost all of it was gone!

I called my roomate to check on him around one and he was still running and prancing like normal. I think the hide he was in may absorb too much heat on the cool side. My thoughts on that were he got cool and never warmed back up if the material absorbed it like a spounge and kept it from getting inside. Wether that is the case or not, I’m not sure and think I will go ahead and remove it and replace it.

All is well today he made his poops and he’s back under his hide on the hot side, I will keep posted to let you guys know if he stays active.

Ways to improve the well-being of my uro as well as the environment he lives in are definitely welcome, I’ve done tons of research and still feel helpless at times on wether I’ve got the best for him. Money is not an object so please let me know, thanks.
03/31/08  10:30pm

 #1684888


Uro_fan
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1682007


 *sigh* uro woes

Quote:

Everything has been normal until friday morning. I woke up at 12p and he wasn’t up.



If your sleeping patterns are erratic and you do not have the lighting for this uromastyx on a timer, this could be part of the problem. There should be consistency in the photoperiod so my suggestion would be a timer if you do not already have one.

Quote:

I have had him a few months



Many parasite issues will surface a month or two after acquiring a uromastyx. Part of the reason for this is that the excessive stress the animal is going through during acclimation can result in normal flora/fauna getting out of whack. It takes time for ‘some’ parasite loads to get to a level where the animal shows outward signs of illness. The fecal is a good idea.

Quote:

Everything has been normal until friday morning



Just curious- was there handling on Thursday? I ask because some uromastyx will show an attitude and hide for days after being taken from their enclosure and handled even if the animal has been handled before. If there was handling (even if previously handled) or handling when the uromastyx is under stress from shedding, this could be enough to result in the behavior you are now seeing. My suggestion- cut out handling for a while and see if things improve.

Quote:

I’ll sprinkle mazuri pellets on his food every-every other day



My suggestion would be to cut this out. Dried fibrous pellets and small uromastyx are not a good combination. My suggestion would be to get away from the high corn supplement and go with something like a timothy and/or alfalfa based pellet and grinding this and sprinkling it on the greens.

Quote:

he’s still small enough where this is a good size for him



Actually, this size enclosure is not a ‘good’ size for any uromastyx due to the heating requirements and ability (inability really) to achieve and maintain a proper ambient and basking gradient. I know you are working on upgrading but I wanted to point out that I do not feel that this size enclosure is ‘good’ for any size uromastyx. It can be an ‘ok’ temporary enclosure but I would never suggest that it is a good one.

Quote:

Basking site is arouind 110-115



Rather than waiting for the Westron, try to get this up to 120-130 with a regular halogen flood. Make sure that your cool zone remains a cool-zone.

Quote:

Anyone have an opinion on if I should wake him up tomorrow



Yes, do not do it. Your uromastyx is choosing to stay in the hide and has a reason for doing so. If this is due to stress, removing him from the security of a place he has chosen to hide only adds to that stress. You can look for the underlying reason and try to correct it (timer, less handling, increasing basking spot, fecal..) but there is little you can do if the animal is hiding because it is simply going through a shed.

If the enclosure is located where it has been for the last two months and the uro was eating and basking properly without hiding, I would not suggest moving the enclosure now, as it will likely just add stress. I would suggest limiting all handling to that which is necessary for health evaluation. I would also not suggest covering the sides right now. This is typically recommended when the uromastyx first arrives to give it time to adjust to the new surroundings and time to find a secure hide without the stress of outside movement. Once the uromastyx sets up a regular routine of basking, hiding, and eating (which it sounds as if yours did), I recommend removing the covering so the animal can adjust to movement outside the enclosure. Leaving the sides covered for a long period of time can result in a uromastyx that is more sensitive to outside movement that will stress and hide more.



04/01/08  10:50am

 #1685339


Skullkeeper
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1684539


 *sigh* uro woes

Well ,if there isn’t a lot of activity around him and he’s is not afraid , then I would up your basking tamp a little and get that fecal check run asap . Let us know what happens .Hope he is okay .
04/01/08  05:47pm

 #1685950


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: Uro_fan   In reference to Message Id: 1684888


 *sigh* uro woes

I do have the lights on a timer, I believe 630-630 or so.

I am definitely going to do the fecal check this weekend when I’m off work, thanks for the informative post on the parasites.

No handling, I haven’t handled him since I got back from vacation 3 weeks ago. Handling is kept at a minimum and generally only when necessary, I may give him a gentle pet when I (sometimes) hand feed him, but that is about it.

I can stop the mazuri, I guess I was under the impression from deer fern farms that it was good for them?

Well the temperatures seem fine, I’m sure with the bigger cage they would be better, but I do get what you are saying, I am going to get his cage soon, I just don’t know what to get I may make a seperate thread asking opinions or basically let you guys build the cage for me. Again I read, or at least thought I did, that it was a good size for a Uro of his length and age. I did buy him spur of the moment, which I shouldn’t have, but I am impulse(y) like that and after getting him I did my research... big uh oh there.

He is on a routine, I’m not moving the encloure, but I did wake him up and he has been out and about, active, as normal. I think the one hide he was under, whatever material it is made of, was absorbing the heat and possibly keeping underneath to cool for him to wake up, I don’t know this is just an undeucated assumption.
04/01/08  11:33pm

 #1685953


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: Skullkeeper   In reference to Message Id: 1685339


 *sigh* uro woes

The basking temp will be up as soon as I can get my hands on an additional light until I get my new mega-ray. By the time I get off work everything is close, and in the mornings I just don’t have time. I work 4 long smarty pants days.

But so far so good, I didn’t get to seem him today, other then him peeking his head out from under the hide this morning like he normally does before he comes out. When I returned home however, his food was here and there and most of it consumed. And he did his daily poop, it was a little less then normal, but he did just go 2 days without eating.

I am going to do a fecal check this weekend.
04/01/08  11:35pm

 #1686124


Sahells Mom
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   Message To: XKairos_hXc   In reference to Message Id: 1685953


 *sigh* uro woes

Neither of mine eat much before a shed. And sort of stay "in bed" more. You can make a hide of two pavers from like Home Depot (1/2 a brick) & a piece of slate. Total cost of about $2.50. If you put it against the covered wall, he has a perfect hiding place. That sort of hide will last him forever. My adult wedges his big self in his every night. Tail to the door. Also, did you say he was 6" long? He should still be on paper towels or brown paper until he is 7" or more. I know my young one still puts everything in his mouth, so even at 7", I have hesitated putting him on sand yet. I would check him for parisites, and do the cover the sides, build more hides (mine each have at least six hides per enclosure ~ on hot side, cool side & middle), change his substrate if small & then just give him time. I think those will make a bigger difference than you think! Sometimes the more you worry (& watch & check on him, etc), the more we stress them out. Not so sure they like seeing our big faces hovering over them!!
04/02/08  07:01am

 #1703705


XKairos_hXc
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   Message To: Sahells Mom   In reference to Message Id: 1686124


 *sigh* uro woes

*UPDATE!*

So I’ve found the culprit(sp?). I woke my Uro up on a Monday which was the weekend following my issues. He looked around and got up and played and had been running around ever since. Two weeks went by and he decided to sleep under the log again! Well he has not gotten up... So tomorrow I will wake him again and remove the log, I just need to find something to make another hide for him on the cool side. Should I just use two pieces of slate like I have on the hot side or find something different. I’m waiting for Deer Fern Farms to get back to me so I can get this new cage built. But he is doing fine I thought I’d let everyone know, and I am positive it’s the log since this is the second time it happened, and everything else was fine other wise. Here are a few recent pics! He was chillen like this for a good 15 minutes it was odd!





yep he’s got a belly!




04/14/08  10:54pm
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