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MissAnne2u Doublemom MissAnne2u MissAnne2u Skullkeeper Uro_fan MissAnne2u Uro_fan El toro MissAnne2u |
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MissAnne2u View Profile |
A little concerned about my Uro’s
1) How long have you owned the animal? Since Nov. 2007 2)Dimensions of the enclosure you are using? Measure it- Do not guess or give gallon size. 5ft x 2ft x 18”, Oak enclosures 1)Species (if known), length, and weight of the animal. Mali’s, just over 7” STT, weight unknown 2)Listing of all animals kept in the enclosure referred to in the post. 3 Mali’s, just over 7” long STT 3)Basking spot temperature and how that temperature was measured. Basking spot ranges from 119 to 128 degrees (depending on where I measure the temp). I use an IR Temp Gun. 4)Temperature throughout the rest of the enclosure (warm and cool areas) and how these temperatures were measured e.g. digital thermometer, stick on dial thermometer. Provide the nighttime temperatures as well. Cool end Day time: 85 Cool end night time: 75 – 78 Ambient Day time: 99 – 101 Night time warm end: 82 – 84 All temps measured with Fluker’s Digital Thermometers w/ Hydrometers built in. 5)Acknowledge whether you are using a UVB bulb and if so, the brand, age of bulb, and distance from the bulb to the Uromastyx. Currently using a 160w SunSeeker MVB with a Repti-Sun 10.0 compact fluorescent as a supplement for UVB. Each bulb is under 2 months old. The SunSeeker is at an angle pointed into the corner and is approx. 12” from the corner basking spot. (See Picture)
6)Diet items being fed and how often each item is fed. Staple is endive, escarole and a little organic spring mix. Rotate in Bok choy, grated squash and zucchini every other day. Treats include pansy petals and dandelion leaves and flowers on the weekends only. 7)List of the supplements being used, how much is used, and how often the supplement is used. Miner-all sprinkled 1 time per week and ground up Mazuri pellets sprinkled 1 – 2 times per week. 8) Type of substrate (cage bottom material). If this is sand, state whether it is calcium sand. White millet seeds, approximately 1” deep. 9) Describe your animal’s daily routine. When it exits the hide, when it retreats for the night, how long it is usually out throughout the day, is it active during this time, how much time does it spend sitting on the basking spot….Lights on at 7am, come out around 11am, bask a little, nibble (only sometimes) then back in their hides for most of the day. 10)Describe your animal’s appetite. Nibbles on food maybe 1 – 2 times per week. 11) Describe any unusual behaviors you are seeing or any recent changes in behavior. Also note whether any recent modifications have been made to this animal’s environment. e.g new enclosure, move to another room, new heat bulb.... This is where my problem is …We moved the little ones into their new enclosure on March 15th. For about 3 weeks after that, their routine was pretty straight forward, come out about 11am, bask, eat, poop, bask, eat, poop, glass dance, bask … etc. until around 5pm then they would crawl back into their perspective hides (we have 3 in each enclosure). Then about 2 – 3 weeks ago, they stopped coming out during the day, cut back on their basking and eating but haven’t stopped pooping each day. I am not home Mon – Fri during the day and hubby says they come out but when I am home on the weekends, I hardly see them. I try to entice them out with dandelion flowers and leaves, but they seem to just want to sleep under their slate hide. 12) Describe how often this animal is handled and the type of handling. Used to handle them a lot, but now I don’t except for cleanings and vet visits. 13) State whether the animal has been to a vet, when that was, and whether the animal was diagnosed with a medical condition. Also state whether the Uromastyx has ever had a fecal check. If so states when the fecal check was done, what was found, and if medication was prescribed. None of the three in this enclosure have been to the vet. They were from the same clutch and got them all from Doug Dix at Deer Fern Farms so I didn’t feel the need to take them, but now I think I might just take them all in for an exam. We have a good reptile vet that knows Uro’s less than 2 miles from us. I would appreciate any constructive criticism you may have to offer and any ideas on WHY my Uro’s hide almost all day and aren’t really eating as much as they were 3 weeks ago. Here are some pictures: Here is their Enclosure:
Here they are sleeping under the slate:
Recent Pics of each of them: Athena:
Azreal:
Albert: (He hasn’t come out lately to get a newer pic)
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| 04/26/08 07:45pm |
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Doublemom View Profile |
Message To: MissAnne2u In reference to Message Id: 1717213 A little concerned about my Uro’s
I have to add in here for anyone reading this that I’ve seen Anne’s Uros in person and they are very well taken care of and look really healthy :) Andi |
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| 04/26/08 09:16pm |
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MissAnne2u View Profile |
Message To: Doublemom In reference to Message Id: 1717294 A little concerned about my Uro’s
Quote: Anne - Do you think they could be getting ready for a shed? I know mine all get grumpy and sleepy and don’t eat as much for a couple of weeks before they start shedding. Just a thought.
That could be a possibility... Azie and Athena both had the starts of shedding on their feet last week. Quote: I have to add in here for anyone reading this that I’ve seen Anne’s Uros in person and they are very well taken care of and look really healthy :)
Thanks Andi !!! I do spoil my animals and only do the best for them that I can. I just wish I could use the darn MegaRay Bulb. I don’t think that even moving their slate hide would make it possible to use it. :( |
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| 04/26/08 09:25pm |
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MissAnne2u View Profile |
Message To: MissAnne2u In reference to Message Id: 1717309 A little concerned about my Uro’s
Since I’ve never had the Megaray on the babies, I don’t know how it might effect them. I’ll talk to Hubby and see what he thinks. The only other thing I should mention is: My other Uro Enclosure is set up EXACTLY the same, same light set up, same light schedule and is getting the same heat readings with the digi therms and Temp Gun and Liono (who is alone in that enclosure because he is much bigger and older) is running around and eating from like 9am til 4pm each day. Here he is:
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| 04/26/08 09:37pm |
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Skullkeeper View Profile |
Message To: MissAnne2u In reference to Message Id: 1717213 A little concerned about my Uro’s
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| 04/27/08 05:27am |
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Uro_fan View Profile |
Message To: MissAnne2u In reference to Message Id: 1717329 A little concerned about my Uro’s
You posted several times that you had to allow at ‘least’ two weeks for this enclosure to properly cure and yet, you ran it less than a week and then put the animals in. Several weeks of curing at full temperature would help eliminate irritating fumes/gases. Several weeks would not guarantee that the enclosure would be fully cured but it certainly would have helped in eliminating some of the potential irritating gases/fumes. I also noticed that you soaked some bricks/pavers in a bleach solution. Porous items like this will hold bleach (even with rinsing) and release fumes under higher temperatures. The airflow in a closed enclosure like this is more restricted than the open screen top enclosure you were using so irritating fumes will pose a greater risk. This is a big routine change for these animals and routine changes often bring stress. Stress often brings a change in behavior and this change is often demonstrated by increased hiding and/or lethargy. Quote: White millet seeds, approximately 1” deep
This is too deep. You only want to cover the bottom of the enclosure, which should not take much more than ¼”. Quote: I’m also considering removing the swivel light fixture and replacing it with TWO Ceramic fixtures and try the MegaRay again.
Unless you have a uvb meter, I would not play around with taking a high output uvb bulb like Mega Ray and placing it within 6-8 inches of these animals. Even if you are able to find a fixture that mounts directly on the top of the enclosure, you will still be under the recommended distance from the lamp to the animal and I only suggest closer distances than recommended if you are able to verify uvb output. Quote: Currently using a 160w SunSeeker MVB
I know nothing about this uvb bulb other than the fact that it suggests that it not be used in small enclosures. I have seen some reports of low uvb output with this bulb but keep in mind, this may not represent every bulb. Some of the manufacturers using inferior materials and or workmanship may produce bulbs that are extremely low in uvb output and others that are extremely high. I am willing to bet that most of the companies selling these terrific deal uvb bulbs are not placing a lot of money into ’quality control’.  I am not saying that this manufacturer/product is one of them but the possibility certainly exists so without much bulb data to go on or a way to at least measure the output, you are taking a chance with a lesser known bulb. I would seek out any/all information you can find on the bulb, talk to the manufacturer or company selling the product and see what testing has been done with regard to uvb output and the spectrum/wavelength produced from this bulb.
The fact that you are placing ANY uvb bulb within 6-8 inches of an animal without knowledge of the actual output is very concerning. There is sometimes a huge difference between individual bulbs from the same manufacturer and this is like a game of Russian roulette when taking a uvb bulb you know little about and using it as the primary basking spot at 6-8". Again, the angle concerns me as well. ‘If’ there should happen to be an issue with this light irritating the eyes and/or skin due to a high output or the angle at which the uvb is hitting the uromastyx, I would think that hiding would be one of the first signs you would see. My suggestion would be to remove all uvb from this enclosure and replace the bulb with a standard heat bulb. Give it several days and see if you notice a change in behavior. Quote: None of the three in this enclosure have been to the vet. They were from the same clutch and got them all from Doug Dix at Deer Fern Farms so I didn’t feel the need to take them,
Weren’t you the poster that acquired two uromastyx from Doug that died? If so, this should have been a clear sign that uromastyx coming from Doug can be just as much in need of vet care as any other uromastyx. Many of the uromastyx Doug sells are imported. If I remember correctly, your animals came from a batch of imported mali Doug had just recently received. If I were to believe the claims on some of the CITES labels of ‘farm raised’, these claims suggest that uromastyx are hatched out in large enclosed areas. In the wild, uromastyx have a little more roaming roam and parasites are not as ‘concentrated’ as they may be in a limited penned up area holding a lot of animals. Therefore, some of the so-called ‘farm raised’ uromastyx that are housed with or exposed to wild caught adults may actually stand a greater chance of exposure in these confined areas. |
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| 04/27/08 09:02am |
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MissAnne2u View Profile |
Message To: Uro_fan In reference to Message Id: 1717694 A little concerned about my Uro’s
Regarding the enclosures and fumes.... These are the same enclosures Doug uses for all his reptiles, so I’m not concerned about that. And YES we did cure them, unfortunately, we had to move Liono (the older one) in early (after 10 days of curnig) because the cat fell through the mesh of the 40g breeder and it was unrepairable, but Liono is doing fine in the new enclosures. We didn’t move the little ones into theirs until 3 weeks after we got the enclosures and had been running them at full heat for those three weeks, even during the night, there was no smell in them at all. Yes I soaked the pavers in bleach and rinsed them, then put them outside on the back porch for over a week. Quote: White millet seeds, approximately 1” deep
I’ll remove some today. And yes, the seeds are the same as they were in their old enclosure, but I am sure they are eating it, I am also considering moving them to sand, but if they are stressed for some reason, I don’t want to mess with them.
This is too deep. You only want to cover the bottom of the enclosure, which should not take much more than ¼”. As for the SunSeeker, it was the only MVB light I could find that wasn’t 6-8" long. The majority of the UVB/heat is being directed into the corner. If I put it straight down, it will be too close to the basking spot. I know its not good to have it at an angle, but right now that is the only way we can get it to work. We are looking into other options. Quote: The fact that you are placing ANY uvb bulb within 6-8 inches of an animal without knowledge of the actual output is very concerning. None of my lights are within 6-8" of the basking area. As stated, the MVB is at an angle pointed into the corner which is exactly 11-3/8" from the corner to the bulb. And I am working on the angle thing. I really wish I had the enclosures built 24" High.
Quote: Weren’t you the poster that acquired two uromastyx from Doug that died? If so, this should have been a clear sign that uromastyx coming from Doug can be just as much in need of vet care as any other uromastyx. Many of the uromastyx Doug sells are imported.
The Uro’s we got from Doug that died were Egyptians that were imported. The Mali’s we got he hatched and were from the same clutch. But yes, I am going to get them to the vet this coming week just to be safe. Thanks again for all your help and I will look into some different options for the lighting. Anyone know of a HEAT bulb that is shorter (Less than 6" long)? I’m thinking of taking out the MVB light and replacing it with just a Heat lamp and keeping the Repti-Sun 10.0 for the UVB. |
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| 04/27/08 10:00am |
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Uro_fan View Profile |
Message To: MissAnne2u In reference to Message Id: 1717733 A little concerned about my Uro’s
Quote: Regarding the enclosures and fumes.... These are the same enclosures Doug uses for all his reptiles, so I’m not concerned about that.
Doug does not use these cages for all his reptiles- he uses this as a display cage for a very small percentage of his animals. Regardless, Doug using this enclosure does not mean that the enclosures are not emitting fumes that in some way could surface as a health issue down the road. If Doug cures his enclosures for several weeks before using them and you are using the enclosures after only curing half that time, fume/gas exposure could certainly vary. Quote: And YES we did cure them, unfortunately, we had to move Liono (the older one) in early (after 10 days of curnig) because the cat fell through the mesh of the 40g breeder and it was unrepairable, but Liono is doing fine in the new enclosures.
You moved Liono in on the 8th day (not 10th as just stated) of curing. As long as this has turned from a suggested possibility to a discussion, I thought I should verify the actual time frame and set the record straight as my statement that this was less than a week and your reply that it was ten days were both inaccurate. Quote: We didn’t move the little ones into theirs until 3 weeks after we got the enclosures and had been running them at full heat for those three weeks, even during the night, there was no smell in them at all.
This confuses me as I saw a post on March 14th stating that the enclosures were all set up and ‘everyone’ was moved in the day before. You stated that you placed the smaller uromastyx in the bottom of the new enclosures. This was less than two weeks after you received the enclosures. It is great that you waited until the obvious odor dissipated but fumes/gases do not need to be detectable to a human nose for them to be dangerous. My point was that you yourself suggested at ‘least’ (your words) a 2 week cure period for these enclosures. You did not run the enclosures that long before placing the animals in the enclosure and irritating fumes/gases from these new enclosures ‘could’ be a reason you see a change in behavior. You asked for suggestion and this is one possibility. I am not here to debate this possibility unless you have a gas chromatography report showing that the enclosures are and have been free of all noxious gases/fumes. If you have this, then I would agree that the enclosures are just fine and there is no chance of fumes/gases (past or present) resulting in the behavior you are seeing. Quote: As for the SunSeeker, it was the only MVB light I could find that wasn’t 6-8" long. The majority of the UVB/heat is being directed into the corner. If I put it straight down, it will be too close to the basking spot. I know its not good to have it at an angle, but right now that is the only way we can get it to work. We are looking into other options.
Please see the rest of my comments regarding this light and the distance you have it mounted at. This bulb could potentially be causing harm to your animals at this distance and should be removed until you can verify that it is not harmful at the distance you have it mounted. You asked for suggestions as to what might be causing the behavior changes and this is one possibly that would be easy to remedy- just remove the bulb for several days and replace it with a bulb that produces heat and light. There are many short neck options (home improvement store) for this. Quote: None of my lights are within 6-8" of the basking area. As stated, the MVB is at an angle pointed into the corner which is exactly 11-3/8" from the corner to the bulb. And I am working on the angle thing. I really wish I had the enclosures built 24" High.
Is the bulb facing up? If not, the uvb is spreading out as it exits the face of the bulb. You previously stated that with the length of any mv bulb, the distance to the basking spot would be 6-8”. Even if you angle the bulb at a corner, the uvb is spreading in all directions from the face of that bulb and at these lower heights, output should be verified before using. Quote: The Uro’s we got from Doug that died were Egyptians that were imported. The Mali’s we got he hatched and were from the same clutch. But yes, I am going to get them to the vet this coming week just to be safe.
I am fairly certain that the malis you got from Doug last fall were from a group he imported that were labeled as farm raised or from a batch he got in last year that he stated were hatched by someone out in California. Did Doug suggest to you that these three uromastyx were hatched by him? I guess the main point here is the fecal is a good idea and the fact that you got these animals from Doug Dix does not in any way suggest that you do not need a vet and/or fecal check like implied in your initial post. I would suggest talking to the vet and asking if you can bring in a sample without an office visit. Depending on your rapport, he/she might agree to this. If the vet agrees to this, I would ask if you can combine samples from all three of your uromastyx. |
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| 04/28/08 06:25am |
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El toro View Profile |
Message To: Uro_fan In reference to Message Id: 1718684 A little concerned about my Uro’s
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| 04/28/08 01:02pm |
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MissAnne2u View Profile |
Message To: El toro In reference to Message Id: 1718926 A little concerned about my Uro’s
Just on a side note, I was home all day Sunday and they were all out, running around, eating, basking and pooping. I’m still going to have them checked out and do some rearranging of my lights. Thanks again for all your help everyone. |
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| 04/28/08 03:56pm |
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