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 #2148994


Rtl402
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 Safe materials

Just curious if anyone knows if hard maple or cherry 2x4’s are safe to be used in a Uro enclosure. I keep reading about people building enclosures for other lizards including beardies using cherry or hard maple, but these temps of course are a bit lower then for Uro’s. I cant seem to find a definite answer.

I need to buy some 2x4’s for my enclosure build and I have been unsuccessful in locating oak 2x4’s. Everything inside the enclosure of course will be sealed with 2 coats of acrylacq.
05/20/10  11:15am

 #2149109


Gregory_t
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   Message To: Rtl402   In reference to Message Id: 2148994


 Safe materials

I’m wondering why you need 2 x 4’s if you’re using oak ply. That stuff is strong as stone. All you need are screws. No braces or other support. Once you screw the pieces together, you’ll see what I mean. The 2x4’s will just be overkill. I initially bought steel "L" braces when I build my enclosure thinking I would need them to make the corners more solid. I quickly realized I didn’t need them once I screwed everything together.
05/20/10  06:36pm

 #2149224


Benedita
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   Message To: Gregory_t   In reference to Message Id: 2149109


 Safe materials

I avoid ply and veneer in my home because I want to limit my exposure to VOCs. I used solid white oak. I also didn’t use any "chemical" or plastic finish to seal the wood, rather I hand finished with linseed oil. bottom & sides mostly glass held in place with silicone aquarium sealant.
getting back to the original question, I think any hardwood is fine. 2x4s probably are overkill... I used 2x2 for my corners 1x2s for the top frame, and 1x6s for the bottom frame. are you going very long lengths without support? are you stacking multiple enclosures?
05/20/10  10:21pm

 #2149225


Benedita
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   Message To: Benedita   In reference to Message Id: 2149224


 Safe materials

you know, I would go with 2x4s IF If your length was spanning 6 feet without a middle support, or if I needed to support the weight of 1/4 inch glass.
05/20/10  10:24pm

 #2149291


Rtl402
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   Message To: Benedita   In reference to Message Id: 2149225


 Safe materials

Yes, there will be a storage unit on bottom 5’6"x2’x12" with (2) units 5’6"x2’x30" stacked above it. I know 2x4 is likely overkill, but better safe then sorry. Plus added strength never hurts...

And no, not all hardwoods are safe. Hard maple and walnut emit toxins at high temps. Also I found recently that most oak ply is from china and 50% chance it contains formaldehyde, where as if you buy "Grade A US Oak ply" there is no formaldehyde used. Although its a good thing to know contractors because these normally sell at $84/sheet!
05/21/10  07:23am

 #2149294


UROKEEPER
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   Message To: Rtl402   In reference to Message Id: 2149291


 Safe materials

Why not seal the hardwood 2x4’s with several coats of Acrylaq or hardseal by AFM?



05/21/10  07:28am

 #2149299


Rtl402
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   Message To: UROKEEPER   In reference to Message Id: 2149294


 Safe materials

Quote:

Everything inside the enclosure of course will be sealed with 2 coats of acrylacq.



It will be, I am just trying to use all safe materials rather than using something not entirely safe and just coat it and eventually it will get scratched up and be exposed... just looking to do things as safe as possible.



05/21/10  08:16am

 #2150034


Benedita
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   Message To: Rtl402   In reference to Message Id: 2149291


 Safe materials

what are the toxins that walnut & maple emit? and at what temperature ranges?
05/23/10  08:30pm

 #2150241


Rtl402
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   Message To: Benedita   In reference to Message Id: 2150034


 Safe materials

from a little reading i THINK (not 100% sure) that walnut plywood uses formaldehyde in the glue.. if its solid wood its good with that... but i keep finding random articles about VOC’s from them, not sure on the temps though. Not 100% sure they are safe, so obviously I am avoiding use just in case.

Maple if its soft maple (majority of maple plywood) it can still contain some sap and that will emit VOC’s for sure. The tree smells sweet in nature, you start putting heat in there and its sure to give off VOC’s.

I am not sure about the hardwood maple, but from my finding its hard to come by... not sold in home depot or lowes unless its special order
05/24/10  01:48pm

 #2150404


Benedita
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   Message To: Rtl402   In reference to Message Id: 2150241


 Safe materials

My post was about using hardwoods, not engineered woods.

Kiln dried hardwood is not going to have any liquid sap to worry about, softwood or not.

yes, there’s a lot of info out there on toxic off gassing from engineered "woods" (ply, hardboard, particleboard, et cetera). According to the EPA, VOCs come from "Household products including: paints, paint strippers, and other solvents; wood preservatives; aerosol sprays; cleansers and disinfectants; moth repellents and air fresheners; stored fuels and automotive products; hobby supplies; dry-cleaned clothing."

Notice that list includes paints and other solvents? Be aware that Acrylaq & Hardseal are not VOC free. If you have the time to let it dry properly, use solvent-free boiled linseed or tung oil.
05/24/10  09:13pm

 #2150405


Benedita
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   Message To: Benedita   In reference to Message Id: 2150404


 Safe materials

here’s an article about VOC release from eastern hardwood lumber species, from harvest to kiln drying.
Link
05/24/10  09:19pm

 #2150656


UROKEEPER
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   Message To: Benedita   In reference to Message Id: 2150404


 Safe materials

VOC’s are everywhere in a household. We can only try and limit them. great job on the natural oil. There are many different natural oils to use.I did not like the extreme deepening of the wood colour. I used several cats of "hardseal" and yes it is "Low VOC" it will emit a very low amounts when wet however it does not contain toxic ingredients such as solvents, heavy metals, chemical residuals, formaldehyde and other harmful preservatives. When temperatures reach above 177 Celsius it will start to breakdown and emit fumes. I think pretty much anything would at that temp. I ran my lights without my uro inside for well over a month. The product I used had next to no smell when wet. The enclosure is well ventilated and thermostatically controlled with an emergency backup. For the size of enclosures I built and plan on building solid wood would be very expensive and your not going to find 8-16 foot wide trees. If I were to build a smaller enclosure I would definitely use a solid wood. I guess you could always use planks for "tongue and groove" if your into that. I bought my formaldehyde free hardwood plywood from an eco friendly store about a 3 hour drive from me. I also used solid 12 foot planks I got from a sawmill. I sealed everything very well. I believe this avoids/limits my uro’s exposure to VOC’s and harmful toxins. RTL have you thought about using solid planks ? as for specie to specie wood containing formaldehyde most will. doesn’t matter what species it is the veneer. You also have to look at the core what is it comprised of.



05/25/10  09:31pm

 #2150679


UROKEEPER
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   Message To: Rtl402   In reference to Message Id: 2149299


 Safe materials

Quote:

I am just trying to use all safe materials rather than using something not entirely safe and just coat it and eventually it will get scratched up and be exposed



When I used the sealer it soaked all the way through the veneer into the poplar core and hardened. your uro will have to scratch through the veneer before anything would be "exposed". I like the idea of natural oil. I would be curious to know how fire resistant different oils are and at what temps some emit VOC’s. I hope nobody smokes cigarettes in the house with their uro’s. even cooking in the oven or on the stovetop emits VOC’s. I think plenty fresh air is good for the uro’s. I have excellent ventilation in my home and my enclosures. I hope you can get on your way with building RTL 402
05/25/10  10:31pm


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