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 Member  Message

 #2234743


Azrael84
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 Help for constipated Uro

Hi,

My Uro is very constipated at the moment, I was keeping him on millet when I first got him as I had read good reviews of this on lots of care sheets but he was eating the stuff by the bucket load and I believe it may have bunged him up. I’ve changed the substrate now but he still won’t go the toilet by himself and is very swollen.

I have been giving him baths 1-2 times a week and he has successfully pooed during these a couple of times, but not everything and has remained quite swollen. I think the last time he went just in his cage must be approaching 3-4 weeks ago and he is much more sluggish now than he used to be.

His temps are good: 28C cool end, 37c ambient hot, 53C bask spot, he has a hot and cool hide, a 12% UV light etc. I’ve been feeding him mostly spring mix, squash and a couple of times a week things like pepper courgette etc. I’ve cut out the seeds and millet obviously and I’ve started feeding him mint leaves, rosemary and dandelion which he especially likes.

He really is not a fan of the baths, and thrashes a good amount, he also makes a strange clucking noise and appears to inflate/deflate himself, prob defensive mechanism? occassionally he will shut his eyes too. Also drying him is a nightmere. Yes I know Uro’s dont naturally come into contact with much water but I’m only bathing him since it’s an emergency and I don’t know what else to do?

Is there anything else I can do or do I just go straight to the vets now?

thanks



08/28/11  03:05pm

 #2234744


Jbreddawg
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  Message To: Azrael84   In reference to Message Id: 2234743


 Help for constipated Uro

Well first off stop bathing him. Thats about the worst thing you can be doing. All your doing is terrorizing him ,stressing him,stressing his immune system,giving him an excellent chance of a respiratory infection "if he doesn’t already have one from the sounds of the clucking noises" and add in some nice tail rot for good measure.

Why people want to subject a lizard from a dry environment to weekly baths I can never comprehend.

What size enclosure ?
If I were you I would get him to a vet asap. Make sure temps are perfect,feed correctly and jeze,stop sticking him in water .



08/28/11  03:22pm

 #2234756


Mumbos Momma
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  Message To: Jbreddawg   In reference to Message Id: 2234744


 Help for constipated Uro

-_- im so getting tired of this crap!

Google "UroWiki" & read it thru and thru because my chances of being polite are slim at this point.



08/28/11  05:08pm

 #2234780


Azrael84
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  Message To: Mumbos Momma   In reference to Message Id: 2234756


 Help for constipated Uro

I’m sorry but this is nonsense, it was a reptile vet via phone that advised the bathing in the first place. I think we all understand that Uros shouldn’t be bathed as a part of normal husbandry(I tried to spell out that I understood this in my OP as I was expecting your response. Obviously, they exist in an extremely arid environment. We don’t include a water bowl precisely to keep humidity low etc etc) but as a treatment for constipation over a couple of weeks of the Uros life with drying off afterwards it is not going to cause tail rot!

Yes, it’s stressing him out a little, and I’m sad about that, but if it wasn’t for the baths he wouldn’t have defecated at all in a couple of weeks now and I think would be in a lot more discomfort! the warm water clearly relaxes the muscles as at least 50% of the time he defecates within a minute or two of bathing. It’s the standard emergency treatment for nearly all desert reps with constipation not some voodoo cure I just cooked up...

As for the clucking noise coupled with inflation/deflation I’ve since learned (via google you’ll be thrilled to learn Mumbos Mama!) that this indeed a defence mechanism in Uros as I suspected in my OP and not an indication of a resp infection, sigh..

I have no need of googling "UroWiki" because I found the site before I purchased my Uro months ago and read it religiously along with a myriad of other good Uro care sheets such as Deerferns etc etc. I don’t claim to know everything about Uros, prob will never stop learning, hence why I come here looking for those more experienced just to make sure I’ve not left any stone unturned in terms of possibles ways to help my Uro, but receive nothing but a belligerent condescending tone, as it happens totally in contrast to the very helpful advice I’ve received from other rep forums over the past weeks.

I was just hoping someone might have a method or two I haven’t heard yet before it gets more serious and it ends up with laxatives or surgery...



08/28/11  07:07pm

 #2234784


Jbreddawg
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  Message To: Azrael84   In reference to Message Id: 2234780


 Help for constipated Uro

Well it seems like your wonderful highly knowledgeable vet and those other friendly forums and you have it all figured out then.
I think your uro is late for his next bath.



08/28/11  07:29pm

 #2234789


Mumbos Momma
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  Message To: Jbreddawg   In reference to Message Id: 2234784


 Help for constipated Uro

I guess I never got the memo that because someone went through college to become a vet it AUTOMATICALLY makes them a expert on EVERY single species of reptiles and what they need.

My vet openly admitted to me that he had no special knowledge on Uromastyx and just generalized information on reptiles as whole, Well thats not good to me. What works good for one reptile will not work for every one. That is why I take my reptiles to a different vet than my dogs. Because 90% don’t know dung when it comes to reptiles.

Believe what you want but bathing is NO GOOD for uromastyx and as far as you throwing up Deer Fern Farms care sheets,they are some of the most outdated on the web. So your not gaining no special merit badges for that. UroWiki is the only one that has ALL the proper information.

May I also add that I LOVE the way you skipped around JBred asking about your enclosure size. Probably a 40g that your Uro just LOVES and let me guess,he likes being walked on a leash and being held,too?



08/28/11  07:43pm

 #2234806


Kelso reptiles
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  Message To: Mumbos Momma   In reference to Message Id: 2234789


 Help for constipated Uro

trust these people with your heart they know alot about uromastics and beleve me about the tail rot
when i got my mali uro the pet store told me not to put any water in the tank but once a week to bath him in really warm water for 15 minuts then take him out and dry him off compleatly so i did i did this for about a year only to find out that he was suffering from tail rot then i found this site went to this forum and read a bunch of post and care sheets and stoped bathing him i fixed the tail rot but i was to late :( (no he didint die thank god) but all of his spikes on his tail had all ready roted off
his tale still looks like it usally does (well from far away) but up close his spikes are blunt




08/28/11  08:47pm

 #2234809


Jbreddawg
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  Message To: Kelso reptiles   In reference to Message Id: 2234806


 Help for constipated Uro

I tool this pic in a reptile only petstore that has been in business for about 20 years.



08/28/11  09:07pm

 #2234811


Mumbos Momma
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  Message To: Jbreddawg   In reference to Message Id: 2234809


 Help for constipated Uro

Wow.



08/28/11  09:15pm

 #2234813


Herp_Momma
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  Message To: Mumbos Momma   In reference to Message Id: 2234811


 Help for constipated Uro

I would have thrown a giant hissy and gotten myself kicked out before I had a chance to snap a pic.



08/28/11  09:18pm

 #2234814


Herp_Momma
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  Message To: Herp_Momma   In reference to Message Id: 2234813


 Help for constipated Uro

I’d like to say "that, or I’d have a whole store full of Uros up for adoption right now.", but no...I’d throw a hissy. I just know it.



08/28/11  09:21pm

 #2234821


Jbreddawg
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  Message To: Herp_Momma   In reference to Message Id: 2234814


 Help for constipated Uro

I didnt say anything because it was the stores owner that put it in there. She was about 60 and I’m sure the conversation would have gone something like "I have been keeping reptiles forever and I know what I’m doing"
I just waited till she walked away,snapped the pic and walked out.



08/28/11  09:40pm

 #2234825


UROKEEPER
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  Message To: Azrael84   In reference to Message Id: 2234743


 Help for constipated Uro

Stress can cause inactivity which in turn causes the uro’s stomach to not break anything down. Add improper basking temperatures/diet with a small enclosure and a loose substrate that is viewed as a food source you may have a problem . Have you taken in a fresh fecal sample to a vet recently? is the uro visually dehydrated? If the uro is going in the bath (no bathing) than he is not impacted. He is more than likely too stressed from poor husbandry. Where exactly is he "swollen"

Please answer the following questions


1) How long have you owned the animal

2) Dimensions of the enclosure you are using. Measure it- do not guess or give gallon size

3) Species (if known), length, and weight of the animal

4) Listing of all animals kept in the enclosure referred to in the post

5) Basking spot temperature and how that temperature was measured

6) Temperature throughout the rest of the enclosure (warm and cool areas) and how these temperatures were measured e.g. digital thermometer, stick on dial thermometer. Provide the nighttime temperatures as well.

7) Acknowledge whether you are using a UVB bulb and if so, the brand, age of bulb, and distance from the bulb to the uromastyx

8) Diet items being fed and how often each item is fed

9) List of the supplements being used, how much is used, and how often the supplement is used

10) Type of substrate (cage bottom material). If this is sand, state whether it is calcium sand

11) Describe your animal’s daily routine. When it exits the hide, when it retreats for the night, how long it is usually out throughout the day, is it active during this time, how much time does it spend sitting on the basking spot….

12) Describe your animal’s appetite.

13) Describe any unusual behaviors you are seeing or any recent changes in behavior. Also note whether any recent modifications have been made to this animal’s environment. e.g new enclosure, move to another room, new heat bulb....

14) Describe how often this animal is handled and the type of handling.

15) State whether the animal has been to a vet, when that was, and whether the animal was diagnosed with a medical condition. Also state whether the uromastyx has ever had a fecal check. If so states when the fecal check was done, what was found, and if medication was prescribed.

Photos of the animal and/or issue can be extremely helpful.

The more questions that you provide answers to, the quicker and more accurate the return answers/replies will be.



08/28/11  09:52pm

 #2234860


Azrael84
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  Message To: Mumbos Momma   In reference to Message Id: 2234789


 Help for constipated Uro

Quote:

I guess I never got the memo that because someone went through college to become a vet it AUTOMATICALLY makes them a expert on EVERY single species of reptiles and what they need.



The vet is a specialised herp vet who has been keeping a variety of species of Uro, desert iggys, bearded dragons and so on for 20 years, so I’d like to wager he knows enough.

Quote:

Believe what you want but bathing is NO GOOD for uromastyx and as far as you throwing up Deer Fern Farms care sheets,they are some of the most outdated on the web. So your not gaining no special merit badges for that. UroWiki is the only one that has ALL the proper information.



I am aware Deerferns care sheets are out of date in places, in fact if you check my previous posts on this very forum who will find me in discussion with others here about some of these points. I quoted it only to show breadth; that I’ve heard all the standard places and to try and show you I’ve not just stumbled blindly into researching these things in the spare of the moment...

Quote:

May I also add that I LOVE the way you skipped around JBred asking about your enclosure size. Probably a 40g that your Uro just LOVES and let me guess,he likes being walked on a leash and being held,too?



I skipped it because I already know my Uro is in an adequate enclosure, it’s a 4x2x2 and when he grows to full size it will be becoming a 6x2x2. I don’t need help on these aspects, I know my temperatures are correct and so on..I’m as capable of reading UroWiki as you are...



08/29/11  04:32am

 #2234861


Azrael84
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  Message To: Jbreddawg   In reference to Message Id: 2234784


 Help for constipated Uro

Quote:

Well it seems like your wonderful highly knowledgeable vet and those other friendly forums and you have it all figured out then.
I think your uro is late for his next bath.



well yeah, to be honest they probably do, I’ve heard absolutely nothing here but a willingness, even an eagerness in fact, to create conflict and to preach. I’m fine with disagreeing with people if they can express a point backed up with science and logical rational, but sarcasm and sniping adds no weight to your arguments, quite the opposite. I only came here in the vein of "leaving no stone unturned..", to be thorough, but I genuinely wish I hadn’t bothered.

You seem to continually miss the point, or deliberately ignore it, that I totally agree that bathing is not part of ordinary husbandry and that it’s only 2-3 times a week for a few weeks of the Uros life. When you consider this, all those reasons people normally don’t bath Uros fly out the window, and the benefits from bathing (the fact my Uro is actually defecating in the bath and not at all otherwise!) far out weigh the minuscule risk of things like tail rot over this period. Yes stress is not fun, but a vets trip will be stressful too, as will any treatment, it’s just unfortunate.

If you have further points to make, I would appreciate you back them up with reason and not incendiary or ad hominem attacks.



08/29/11  04:43am

 #2234862


Boabab95
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  Message To: Azrael84   In reference to Message Id: 2234861


 Help for constipated Uro




Quote:


The vet is a specialised herp vet who has been keeping a variety of species of Uro, desert iggys, bearded dragons and so on for 20 years, so I’d like to wager he knows enough.



Do you have any proof that this is true other than his word of mouth? do you realize Uro care has changed a LOT in the last 20 years? he’s probably thinking about the requirements from 15 years ago...as opposed to now...



08/29/11  04:54am

 #2234863


Azrael84
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  Message To: UROKEEPER   In reference to Message Id: 2234825


 Help for constipated Uro

Quote:

. Have you taken in a fresh fecal sample to a vet recently? is the uro visually dehydrated? If the uro is going in the bath (no bathing) than he is not impacted. He is more than likely too stressed from poor husbandry. Where exactly is he "swollen"



Not taken fecal sample for screening yet, will do however. He’s not dehydrated (mainly because of the baths. He laps at the water occasionally when in there and he has urinated both on me and in the tank in the last week suggesting perhaps that he is not lacking fluid. I agree he is not fully impacted, but maybe partially impacted, most likely by the millet. He is swollen around his sides so that they push out making his abdomen much more pear shaped than usual.



1) How long have you owned the animal

Around 2-3months

2) Dimensions of the enclosure you are using. Measure it- do not guess or give gallon size

4x2x2

3) Species (if known), length, and weight of the animal

Moroccan, weight unknown, he is appprox one year old

4) Listing of all animals kept in the enclosure referred to in the post

just the one Uro

5) Basking spot temperature and how that temperature was measured

53C measured via an IR temp gun.

6) Temperature throughout the rest of the enclosure (warm and cool areas) and how these temperatures were measured e.g. digital thermometer, stick on dial thermometer. Provide the nighttime temperatures as well.

measured via a twin digital thermometer the ambient cool is 28-30C, ambient hot is around 37C

7) Acknowledge whether you are using a UVB bulb and if so, the brand, age of bulb, and distance from the bulb to the uromastyx

using a 12% Arcadia D3+ positioned only 12" away, it is just over 2 months old. MVB is also in the post..

8) Diet items being fed and how often each item is fed

My diet plan is guided by that on moon valley but basically:

Diet consists of around 80% spring mix (endive, frisee etc), squash...these are daily along with dandelion a few times a week.

then each week I rotate wether he gets 2-3 times a week, items like pepper, courgette, pok choi.

I’m currently growing hibiscus and nasturtiums but not ready yet. I’ve also just ordered bee pollen and manuka honey from ebay as was told these can help boost immune system.

I try and give a lot of variety.

9) List of the supplements being used, how much is used, and how often the supplement is used

Just calcium dust on weekends at the moment.

10) Type of substrate (cage bottom material). If this is sand, state whether it is calcium sand

This was originally millet, which he eat and eat until now he’s bunged up (he stool often comes out lines with the stuff even though he’s not been on it for some time now). Now he is on half slate (the feeding half) and half a thing layer of sand. I’m thinking of going 100% slate now because of the issues he’s experiencing.

11) Describe your animal’s daily routine. When it exits the hide, when it retreats for the night, how long it is usually out throughout the day, is it active during this time, how much time does it spend sitting on the basking spot….

leaves hide approx 9am, sits on log most of the morning, will feed around 2pm, returns to the basking spot a few times during the course of day, never spending much more than 15mins there, will retreat to hide by around 5-6pm most days. It used to be very active, climbing running around, digging, not so much now...

12) Describe your animal’s appetite.

Still eating, but never more than 1/3 of the bowl now. Usually daily, if not every other day.

13) Describe any unusual behaviors you are seeing or any recent changes in behavior. Also note whether any recent modifications have been made to this animal’s environment. e.g new enclosure, move to another room, new heat bulb....

Since constipation and bloating started, much more inactive and spends most of the day just sitting still on log.

14) Describe how often this animal is handled and the type of handling.

Never handled, except for necessities such as cleaning.

15) State whether the animal has been to a vet, when that was, and whether the animal was diagnosed with a medical condition. Also state whether the uromastyx has ever had a fecal check. If so states when the fecal check was done, what was found, and if medication was prescribed.

Not been for fecal screen or full vets consultation as of yet. I suspect I will be doing this this week at this rate..



08/29/11  05:05am

 #2234867


Jbreddawg
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  Message To: Azrael84   In reference to Message Id: 2234861


 Help for constipated Uro

Quote:

You seem to continually miss the point, or deliberately ignore it, that I totally agree that bathing is not part of ordinary husbandry and that it’s only 2-3 times a week for a few weeks of the Uros life. When you consider this, all those reasons people normally don’t bath Uros fly out the window, and the benefits from bathing



No,I didn’t miss the point. I actually understood it quite well. I read your first post about how your bathing him 2-3 times a week and he hates it and is stressing him and drying him is a nightmare .
AND might I add,you asked what should you do ?
I suggested to take him to a vet,make sure his husbandry is correct and to stop bathing him and gave all the reasons why you shouldn’t be bathing him in the first place.

You then came back with a page long response about how everything is perfect and the vet is perfect and the other forums are perfect and we’re just mean.
What more should I have said ? Maybe rub your back a little while talking to you ? Talk softer ?
I gave you info ,period.

Instead of doing what you say you know is wrong but are doing it anyways,you should take him to a vet .And may I suggest you call around and find a vet that actually knows what a uro is.
Most vets have "general"herp knowledge and treat uro’s just like bearded dragons or iguanas.
I would immediately suggest soaking either one of those animals , not a uro though. The simple fact that you say he told you to soak tells me he gave you poor general lizard advice .

I’m also a little shocked. You say you have had him for 2-3 months but now for "2-3 times a week for a few weeks" you have been bathing him. He may not even be settled in yet and is still quite nervous and scared . Now you decide he needed bathing to help go to the bathroom ?
You think the benefits outweigh the negatives and I think there are no benefits and only negatives.
You are doing more damage then good here.

Once he gets all the Millet out of his system and is left alone he will most likely start going again normally. I personally would get him to a vet who knows uros. Maybe an enema would be beneficial .



08/29/11  10:07am

 #2234879


Azrael84
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  Message To: Jbreddawg   In reference to Message Id: 2234867


 Help for constipated Uro

Quote:

No,I didn’t miss the point. I actually understood it quite well. I read your first post about how your bathing him 2-3 times a week and he hates it and is stressing him and drying him is a nightmare .
AND might I add,you asked what should you do ?
I suggested to take him to a vet,make sure his husbandry is correct and to stop bathing him and gave all the reasons why you shouldn’t be bathing him in the first place.



Firstly all the reasons you gave for not bathing: tail rot, repository infection, stress and the general fact that these animals live in arid conditions, I accept are valid, but valid under the assumption that one was bathing the Uro like this as a normal part of keeping over a prolonged period of time like a few months or a year say. This is not what I’m doing I’m bathing my Uro as an emergency treatment over a few weeks of its life, then the bathing will stop, and the Uro will either be de-congested or a vets trip will be in order for my serious (and stressful) treatments to ensue.

I expected a negative response to the idea of me bathing my Uro (believe it or not I have read UroWiki and the like), and I tried to qualify the fact that I’m bathing him for this emergency treatment only and not as part of regular husbandry.

Do you have ANY evidence, even anecdotal evidence for that matter, that bathing a Uro for 3-4 weeks twice weekly has led to tail rot, respiratory infection or similar? We all agree these are problems are likely if one baths the Uro regularly over a sustained period, but over 3-4 weeks say? If so I’d be very interested in hearing this. What’s more bathing has clearly helped, my Uro has defecated in the bath on a number of occasions now. At very best I would say bathing UNDER THESE EMERGENCY CIRCUMSTANCES would divide experienced keepers, but you put forth this point as if it is gospel.

Yes, I understand that if he doesn’t clear in a week or so more serious measures like laxatives, enemas, surgery may be required, but I stand by the notion that these are 10x more stressful than a bath, and this simple option is a port of call worth trying before getting to those things.

Quote:


You then came back with a page long response about how everything is perfect and the vet is perfect and the other forums are perfect and we’re just mean.
What more should I have said ? Maybe rub your back a little while talking to you ? Talk softer ?
I gave you info ,period.



You took the assumption that I must be some keeper who keeps his Uro in a 20g tank and has prob never read a decent care sheet in his life from the outset to be honest. Your tone wasn’t one of someone out to help and provide information but rather one of someone belligerent and basically seeking to set himself up to take the moral high ground. Maybe you get some kind of ego boost or superiority kick out of lording it around the forum and finger wagging? who knows.


Quote:


Instead of doing what you say you know is wrong but are doing it anyways,you should take him to a vet .


Hmm, not quite what I said is it? and me taking him to the vets was never something I said I wouldn’t do.

Quote:


And may I suggest you call around and find a vet that actually knows what a uro is.



I think I already elaborated on my herp vets qualifications in a previous post, so I’ll leave it to you to find that to have a read of.


Quote:


I’m also a little shocked. You say you have had him for 2-3 months but now for "2-3 times a week for a few weeks" you have been bathing him. He may not even be settled in yet and is still quite nervous and scared . Now you decide he needed bathing to help go to the bathroom ?



He went to the toilet just fine (once daily nearly every day and good consistency stools) until around 3 weeks or so ago. Nothing changed in his set up only that I noticed he started eating lots of millet instead of his greens. When he does poo now they studded with whole seeds of undigested millet. Not a vet myself, but sounds like it’s partial impaction due to millet to me wouldn’t you say??

Quote:


You think the benefits outweigh the negatives and I think there are no benefits and only negatives.
You are doing more damage then good here.



Again, I would ask you to consider: Are the negatives of bathing (resp inf, tail rot etc) really a serious concern over what would amount to roughly 6 baths so far in this Uros life, or are they really only concerns if a keeper is planning to do this as part of regular keeping (i.e. weekly for life).

I acknowledge that stress is a genuine negative, but again I point to the fact that so will any treatment be for a constipated animal such as enema..

As for no benefits, I think him defecating in the bath, at least clearing some of the blockage is a positive.

I really didn’t come here to debate the thorny issue of whether bathing Uros for constipation treatment is a good or bad idea. I will be taking the Uro for more serious treatment at the vets in the next few days if nothing improves so no need to say more of that. I was looking for past experiences of people in similar situations and just generally to make sure I hadn’t missed anything obvious to try, if no one has such advice, then that is cool and we will leave it at that.



08/29/11  11:22am

 #2234882


Jbreddawg
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  Message To: Azrael84   In reference to Message Id: 2234879


 Help for constipated Uro

Quote:

I accept are valid, but valid under the assumption that one was bathing the Uro like this as a normal part of keeping over a prolonged period of time like a few months or a year say.



How many bathes does it take to get a respiratory infection ? One ? Two ? Two dozen ? How many wet tails does it take to get an infection and get tail rot ? One ? Two ? Two dozen ? Who’s the expert now ?

I have never had tail rot as I don’t bath my uro’s . I have however seen on numerous occasions on this very forum over the last several years that inexperienced vets will recommend bathing . And some when confronted with the info about not bathing have admitted to having never even seen a uro before.
So, if you want to continue to believe in your vet so be it.

As a matter of fact, you seem to have it all figured out so I will kindly bow out. Good luck.




08/29/11  11:53am

 #2234884


Rocco1005
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  Message To: Azrael84   In reference to Message Id: 2234780


 Help for constipated Uro

You know there is definitely a couple very snobby and just downright unfriendly Uro owners on here so dont worry about it. Granted they know their stuff about these reptiles but then they are readily able to attack anyone with the slightest misconception about Uro care. It blows me away how some new Uro owners on here that specifically say in their posts that they are new to all of this are talked down to like dumbasses from these people and they tell them to "READ UROWIKI!!!". Why even have a message board? Just have one page that says READ UROWIKI!!.



08/29/11  12:11pm

 #2234887


Jbreddawg
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  Message To: Rocco1005   In reference to Message Id: 2234884


 Help for constipated Uro

Quote:

You know there is definitely a couple very snobby and just downright unfriendly Uro owners on here so dont worry about it. Granted they know their stuff about these reptiles but then they are readily able to attack anyone with the slightest misconception about Uro care. It blows me away how some new Uro owners on here that specifically say in their posts that they are new to all of this are talked down to like dumbasses from these people and they tell them to "READ UROWIKI!!!". Why even have a message board? Just have one page that says READ UROWIKI!!.



Where do you think the urowiki came from ? Mysteriously appeared out of thin air ?



08/29/11  12:35pm

 #2234888


Azrael84
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  Message To: Jbreddawg   In reference to Message Id: 2234882


 Help for constipated Uro

Quote:

How many bathes does it take to get a respiratory infection ? One ? Two ? Two dozen ? How many wet tails does it take to get an infection and get tail rot ? One ? Two ? Two dozen ? Who’s the expert now ?



I would suspect prolonged exposure to damp conditions either through too high humidity in tank or by bathing on a regular basis as part of normal husbandry are what would lead to nearly all such problems. I base this on the fact that the accounts I’ve heard of tail rot have been due to prolonged exposure to bathing (months or years of weekly baths). I think the risk of such conditions arising from 6 five minute warm baths, followed by thorough drying off in the morning(so a whole day of basking is ahead) would be fairly minimal. The truth is unless someone has empirical evidence on the matter, and can say something like ’I tried bathing my Uro for constipation for ~3 weeks and he got tail rot’, just like there are people out there who can say that they bathed them for months if not years and it happened, you just can’t be sure.

Despite this, I can’t be sure there is no risk, I just believe the risk is small enough to be worth the benefits. Obviously in ideal circumstances I would like to eliminate the risk all together by not bathing, but these circumstances are not such.

Who is the expert? I’m not sure what this jibe is supposed to mean really; I never claimed expert status, I tried to be humble, stating things like ’I will probably never stop learning about Uros’ etc, suggested too that I am open to contrary ideas providing they are backed up by reason and so on. If anything you have been preaching your antithesis on baths as a constipation treatment as if it is gospel and no other experienced Uro keeper could possibly disagree.

Quote:

I have however seen on numerous occasions on this very forum over the last several years that inexperienced vets will recommend bathing . And some when confronted with the info about not bathing have admitted to having never even seen a uro before.
So, if you want to continue to believe in your vet so be it.



I can truly imagine so, and maybe this is why you appear to be so weary of helping others and instantly put all people into this category of inexperienced imbecile, the problem is not everyone fits into this box. I am openly no expert and I did come here for help hoping more advanced keepers could shed some pearls of advice, but I’m also not at the other end of the experience scale either. I’ve spent a lot of time reading before I bought my Uro, and a lot of money getting him the best setup he needs. I paused a long time before deciding bath treatment was worth a shot knowing tail rot and the like were factors people who had routinely bathed Uros had experienced.

The herp vet advising is very experienced he lived out in the mojave desert for many years researching native reptiles, in particular the gila monster but certainly knows more about Uromastyx than most.
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I would really like to draw a line under this whole bath issue, in summary:

-I believe: bath as part of husbandry=no no. bath over short term in emergency=small risk (based on no accounts I’m aware of suggesting this time span caused such conditions), large benefit=>worth it.
-You believe: bath as part of husbandry=no no (we agree!). bath over short term in emergency=still too risky and has no benefits (even though my Uro does defecate in the bath).

We’re patently never going to agree on the matter, and that is fine.

I suspect the tone has dropped too low for anything useful to come out of this thread now, but if anyone has an experiences they would like to share, any non bath treatment related advice I’d be glad to hear it, otherwise I would like to bow out too, as this thread is proving to be a black hole on my enthusiasm and time.



08/29/11  12:37pm

 #2234890


Azrael84
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  Message To: Rocco1005   In reference to Message Id: 2234884


 Help for constipated Uro

Quote:

You know there is definitely a couple very snobby and just downright unfriendly Uro owners on here so dont worry about it. Granted they know their stuff about these reptiles but then they are readily able to attack anyone with the slightest misconception about Uro care. It blows me away how some new Uro owners on here that specifically say in their posts that they are new to all of this are talked down to like dumbasses from these people and they tell them to "READ UROWIKI!!!". Why even have a message board? Just have one page that says READ UROWIKI!!.



Yep, I think that pretty much sums it up, and more succinctly than I had managed...



08/29/11  12:42pm

 #2234943


Mumbos Momma
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  Message To: Azrael84   In reference to Message Id: 2234890


 Help for constipated Uro

Quote:

You know there is definitely a couple very snobby and just downright unfriendly Uro owners on here so dont worry about it. Granted they know their stuff about these reptiles but then they are readily able to attack anyone with the slightest misconception about Uro care. It blows me away how some new Uro owners on here that specifically say in their posts that they are new to all of this are talked down to like dumbasses from these people and they tell them to "READ UROWIKI!!!". Why even have a message board? Just have one page that says READ UROWIKI!!.




Rocco, Do you ever think that the "snobbiness" and "unfriendlyness" comes from seeing so many people get on here and ask advice just to shrug us off and be rude claiming they "know whats best for their Uro" or the infamous "my vet said..." bit. We say stuff from experience. Azrael asked for advice just as many other then when was told to STOP bathing decided her vet knew best,so be it. Just like many others that have came & gone from this forum she doesn’t want to take that advice. What you have to understand is we see people come back and admit their faults once its too late; once their uromastyx has tail rot or other various issues. As far as the "UROWIKI" statement,why should we restate EVERY word on their when you can just read it for yourself. It is the BEST source of Uromastyx information and covers nearly everything. I guess from now on we just need to copy paste from the site and just not refer people to it because apparently it isnt as good when its coming from the site itself and not from an individual response. The UroWiki was created by owners JUST like us snobby people who felt the need of a updated care sheet because of all the CRAP floating on the internet that is FALSE. Why even have a message board? For uro lovers to get together on a central area,thats why. & if I remember correctly you were given LOADS of good information and help,which may I also add you put to use. Which I applaud you for,by the way. But your response is putting forth no better than the snobbiness you are complaining about. Nobody is made to stay on this forum. If they don’t like the way people approach stuff on here. Easy solution; find another forum. When I first started here I was doing stuff wrong as many others,and I (too) got ripped apart by members on here. BUT I admitted my faults,took their advice,made changes ASAP and through it all became a much better Uro owner and advocate. I have learned so much from these "snobby" people and for that I appreciate EVERY single one of them,they are great. I now,also, own the result of a poor ownership who is blind and came to me skin and bones. Well,we dont like ANY animal resulting in that so yes,we do jump to defense of the animal. If that makes me a snob then so be it. Sorry you feel that way.



08/29/11  07:00pm

 #2234954


Rocco1005
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  Message To: Mumbos Momma   In reference to Message Id: 2234943


 Help for constipated Uro

ok sorry, i went a little overboard with my remarks and i apologize. You as well as others have given me great advice so i appreciate it, im sure we can still be friends.



08/29/11  08:14pm

 #2234955


Hippo130
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  Message To: Mumbos Momma   In reference to Message Id: 2234943


 Help for constipated Uro

dotn ask for the help if you wont take the help, thats my two cents azrael



08/29/11  08:18pm

 #2235006


Azrael84
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  Message To: Hippo130   In reference to Message Id: 2234955


 Help for constipated Uro

Quote:

dotn ask for the help if you wont take the help, thats my two cents azrael



I think you’ll find I will take help, and from the point I got interested in Uros until now I’ve had a myriad of help from forums including this one in earlier threads, I was doing stuff wrong (or at least planning to) and people corrected my path and I was thankful. The difference here is that I simply don’t agree on the issue of
temporary bathing as a constipation solution, I think it’s a dividing issue, and the only thing that will change my mind is if arguments from science or experience (by which I mean people who bathed their Uro for only a few weeks and had problems not years). I wont be swayed because of authority and I won’t be swayed by petty snipes. That is a very different thing from not being willing to change ones opinion.

anyway, can be please put the bathing issue to bed now. Agree to disagree, whatever you want to call it, or bring new evidence to light and then I’ll reconsider my position. I’m not here to fight, I don’t have time nor inclination for a forum brawl.



08/30/11  05:09am

 #2235064


Datsunissan28
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  Message To: Azrael84   In reference to Message Id: 2235006


 Help for constipated Uro

As a third party looking in and as a somewhat veteran member of this forum, Azrael brings up some decent points and is not the typical newbie that comes in here and refuses to listen to anyone.

I do not post nearly as much as some as my expertise lays more towards the construction of the cages and materials. I leave the more in depth health questions to the members that are more knowledgable in these areas.

As we all know the basic care of uromastyx has changed drastically in the past ten years. I’m sure ten years ago people thought they had uro care down. Obviously we are much better off now, but there is a good chance we have just a much room for improvement.

I bring this up as a reminder to my fellow members to be more welcoming to an intelligent new member. He clearly is not deaf to our words like some newbies that have popped up recently.

The original poster is looking for a solution. He clearly shows that he is bathing as last resort due to no other solutions given. There may not be an easy short term solution like bathing can provide with other lizards, but Urokeeper so far is the only one looking into this more to help him out.

I would like to take some time to address a few individuals in this thread.

Jerry, we’ve had our disagreements in the past, but you have the experience to back up your stern no nonsense approach to helping people. There is a need for this to keep the forum in order.

Mumbos Mamma, I appreciate your enthusiasm and you have great intentions. One of the main reasons for the format of UroWiki is that it can be edited. This is what makes it so different than all the care sheets out there. While the Urowiki is a great starting point it is not the end all be all of uro keeping. I understand the that your younger and work a lot and go to school, but lately your posts have not been constructive and only reinforce that they are wrong. Like you said you are relatively new here and don’t have a ton of personal experience yet, and focus on the yet. Please just give yourself some time to gain more experience.

Urokeeper, thanks for looking for a solution.

Azrael, you definitely seem like an intellignet, concerned owner. Please stick around. I know one suggestion that has been given in the past for impaction is a drop of olive oil. I have never personally done this, but have heard it tends to work. My juvenile Moroccan was kept on millet by the previous owner in only a part of the cage. It was passing undigested millet almost four months later.



08/30/11  05:30pm

 #2235257


HeathBar
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  Message To: Datsunissan28   In reference to Message Id: 2235064


 Help for constipated Uro

I don’t understand the hostility on this website these days. We can give good advice without being rude to people seeking help. But I disgress...

To the OP: I’ve only soaked one of my urso once and that was under an extreme circumstance, and I believe it saved her life. She passed a huge impaction of sand with the help of the warm water on her vent area. I did this with the advice of my reptile vet and after trying other ways first. So while you shouldn’t do it on a regular basis it can be used as a last resort if the impaction is bad (confirmation from an xray).



08/31/11  10:49pm
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