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#2270681 Cinder View Profile	New Uro owner..need alittle help Ok im gonna start by saying ive browsed the urowiki site but for the most part im following recommendations from the deer fern farms uromastyx site. Which is why my set up is as follows - 1) How long have you owned the animal - 4days 2) Dimensions of the enclosure you are using. Measure it- do not guess or give gallon size - 40gal breeder tank. 36x18x16in 3) Species (if known), length, and weight of the animal - marked as moroccan but i believe ’hes’ a mali, length roughly 8-9in and weight unknown 4) Listing of all animals kept in the enclosure referred to in the post - mali alone 5) Basking spot temperature and how that temperature was measured - 115degrees measured w/ a PE-2 temp gun. Bulb is a 100w Exo Terra Daylight Basking Bulb just over 12" from slate basking rock. Multi-level basking rocks range from upper 90s to 115degrees. 6) Temperature throughout the rest of the enclosure (warm and cool areas) and how these temperatures were measured e.g. digital thermometer, stick on dial thermometer. Provide the nighttime temperatures as well. - ambient on warm side in 90s and cool side mid 80s. measured w/ temp gun and digital thermometer w/ probe. night temps lower 70s but never below 70 7) Acknowledge whether you are using a UVB bulb and if so, the brand, age of bulb, and distance from the bulb to the uromastyx -The only UVB bulb i use is a Repti Glo 10.0 26w Desert Terrarium Lamp approx. 16" from floor(DFF recommends no UVB only supplements) Also use 2 other spiral light bulbs for extra light and a little warmth on cool end. 8) Diet items being fed and how often each item is fed -Greens are given each morning roughly an hour after lights go on at 8am. Diet is ripped up organic spring mix leafy greens mixed w/ dandelion leaves, endive and escarole ( havent switched it up at all as i just got the uro a few days ago) 9) List of the supplements being used, how much is used, and how often the supplement is used - So far only using Rep-Cal phosphorus-free calcium w/ D3 (also use herptivite w/ my beardie but havent used it w/ the uro yet) His greens are lightly sprayed w/ water and lightly dusted w/ the rep-cal each day 10) Type of substrate (cage bottom material). If this is sand, state whether it is calcium sand - Substrate is bird seed, mostly millet w/ some equally small seed mixed in(no sunflower). He was on red sand at the pet store. 11) Describe your animal’s daily routine. When it exits the hide, when it retreats for the night, how long it is usually out throughout the day, is it active during this time, how much time does it spend sitting on the basking spot…. - He comes out in the morning to eat then hides for the rest of the day under the basking rocks..possibly poking his head out a few times then heading right back under the rock 12) Describe your animal’s appetite. -Hes given a large handful of greens and ate none the first 2 days but at least 3/4 of it the last 2 days (Id say at least a cup or more is given) 13) Describe any unusual behaviors you are seeing or any recent changes in behavior. Also note whether any recent modifications have been made to this animal’s environment. e.g new enclosure, move to another room, new heat bulb.... - At the pet store he was all over the place(i was in there alot and visited him alot before i got him) Id hold him and hed climb all over checkin me out. I saw him eat and bask and act pretty normal tho their set up wasnt ’ideal’. Now he does nothing.. 14) Describe how often this animal is handled and the type of handling. -I dont handle him as im not going to pull him out of his ’safe spot’ 15) State whether the animal has been to a vet, when that was, and whether the animal was diagnosed with a medical condition. Also state whether the uromastyx has ever had a fecal check. If so states when the fecal check was done, what was found, and if medication was prescribed. -Hes not been to a vet yet or had a fecal done. I figure once hes more comfy ill make an appt w/ the vet my beardie goes to. Hes also has skin that hasnt shed on his back basically between his back legs and down his tail and it doesnt look to be going anywhere I understand that they need time to settle in however dont they also need to bask and heat up? I feel like hes gonna waste away stuffed under that rock. The temps under the rocks are mid to upper 80s. He was so outgoing at the store i guess i just didnt expect him to run at the sight of me when i got him home. Should i eliminate the gap under the basking rocks? There are a couple places to hide on the cool end but he hasnt gone that far yet. I also know my lighting will be questioned and suggestions will be given which is fine and ill look into things further though im not a huge fan of MVB from what ive read however as i said im willing to look further into it.. So Basically what id like to know is - is there something im doing terribly wrong to make him not want to come out..ever? the sooner i catch it the better obviously... Thanks
06/20/12  06:59pm
#2270684 Kelso reptiles View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2270681  New Uro owner..need alittle help sounds about right ecept most people will say its going to need a bigger cage you might wann switch to somthing else besides bird seed as they can become addicted to it and not eat anything else you can try sand but make sure its washed play sand that has been finly screened like from home depot or lowes give him time he will come out just leav him alone for right now let him acumalate
06/20/12  07:46pm
#2270687 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Kelso reptiles   In reference to Message Id: 2270684  New Uro owner..need alittle help Thanks for the reply..i was actually thinkin maybe i should try sand instead. He did eat alittle seed when i first put him in the cage but since then has basically only eaten greens though i cant say what hes doing when i cant see him. I think at this point the cage is big enough but if i have to ill have no problem upgrading when he puts on some size. I use a Repti Sun 10.0 UVB tube light for my beardie..would that be ok for the uro too if i didnt want to use a MVB?
06/20/12  08:11pm
#2270695 Kelso reptiles View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2270687  New Uro owner..need alittle help yeah i think that should work
06/20/12  08:42pm
#2270703 Vers View Profile	Message To: Kelso reptiles   In reference to Message Id: 2270684  New Uro owner..need alittle help Be careful with just any washed childrens playsand--a lot of it is comprised of silica, which is considered a hazardous material by OSHA. Just visit a manufacturer’s website (i.e. Quikrete) and look into the MSDS pdf for more information on the affects of crystalline silica. According to the MSDS on the Quickrete site keeping the sand damp will eliminate any adverse health affects it may have, but this is not advisable uromastyx outside of a nesting application. This is something that I just found out myself and most definitely something to consider before making a decision. While others have been using the stuff for years I personally will not expose my animals to anything considered hazardous to people. I’ve got a few other things to add as well. -How far away are you measuring surface temps with the temp gun? -If you intend on providing UVB lighting the UVB bulb you are using is no good, especially at the distance you have it. I would recommend picking up a 100w or 160w ZooMed PowerSun mercury vapor bulb (which will double as both a basking bulb and a UVB source) OR an Arcadia 12% fluorescent UVB, preferably the t5 HO option (these can be purchased at lightyourreptiles.com--tell them Matt V sent you). Both of these options are the best, IMO. You should also make sure the entire enclosure is well lit--providing a 6500K daylight rated CFL (compact fluorescent) with a decently high wattage (23-30w) will do the trick and will keep energy costs low. If you don’t go with UVB lighting you may want to consider swapping out the current basking bulb for a much lower wattage outdoor halogen flood lamp, which will generally supply the same level of heat at half the wattage. Also, if you decide to forgo UVB lighting, consider Repashy supplements, which are said to be excellent. -Make sure the spring mix is free of any chard and spinach. These are considered undesirable food items to any reptile based on their chemical composition. -How many hides are you offering, where are they located and what are the humidity levels inside them? While the ’open’ space should have low rh levels the hides should provide moderate levels in order for the animal to shed properly and consistently. -Can you post a few images of your setup and of the animal itself within the environment? This will help considerably. I hope that helps for now... Matt
06/20/12  09:40pm
#2270730 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Vers   In reference to Message Id: 2270703  New Uro owner..need alittle help Thanks Matt..ill respond further and look into how to post pics when i get home from work this afternoon
06/21/12  05:20am
#2270764 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Vers   In reference to Message Id: 2270703  New Uro owner..need alittle help Ok i measure the temps from dif levels multiple times a day ranging from 5" to roughly 10" and i move it all around the rocks to see the min and max temps. Since the temp gun is sitting right beside the tank i just randomly use it when i go by my tanks. I will look into the halogen flood lamps. (which types of bulbs are said to hurt their eyes again?) In all honesty even though i did buy that uvb bulb i am planning on trying just the supplements and seeing how that goes. I ordered what they use at DFF and it should arrive tomorrow. I also have supplies for an outdoor ’pen’ so he can be in real sunlight when the weather allows. I just checked the spring mix and it does say red and green chard but no spinach. Ill just buy fresh bunches of greens and do it that way instead so ill know exactly whats in it. There are basically 2 hides i guess. Hot side hide is under basking rocks and cool side is a cave type thing although hes not been to that side yet. Theres also some driftwood he can get under on the cool side if he wants. Im not really doing anything extra for humidity at this point but this weekend ill be changing things up and adding a humid hide where he can burrow. How do you post pics? Thanks! I appreciate all your help/advice
06/21/12  04:35pm
#2270770 Vers View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2270764  New Uro owner..need alittle help Compact fluorescent UVB bulbs have been known to cause eye problems, such as photo-kerato-conjunctivitis. These are the shorter spiral or u-shaped UVB bulbs (Non-UVB CFL bulbs are fine). Be sure to keep updating in regards to the supplement treatment--this seems far less common than the other route (UVB lighting) but might be equally as effective. It’s something that I have been considering myself. As for the outdoor pen, what type of materials are you planning on using? This type of setup is going to need a lot more safety precautions in order to ensure the animal is safe from not only predators and escape but from other environmental hazards (eating just one lightning bug can kill the uro). I think purchasing a couple small heads of greens a week/biweekly is the way to go--it’s much cheaper than buying spring mixes and, like you said, you know what it is and you don’t have to go picking through it. I pluck a couple leafs off per head (mainly feeding escarole and endive as staples) and just dice them up along with any other food items that are on the menu for the day. Some people make up little zip lock bags for the week but I choose to chop the stuff up daily, either the night before or the morning of. In regards to hides you will find that they tend to prefer tight fits, so low clearance, deep, dark, warm and well enclosed hides are best. To measure humidity and temperatures within the hide all you need is either a digital thermometer/hydrometer with a wired probe OR one with a wireless unit. As for posting images--start a flickr account, upload your images there and drag the img links from there into the thread--be sure to click the ’Image’ tab above (or enter it manually) before you paste the img link and then again at the end of the url. If you want to simply have people look at your flickr you could just copy and paste the url to your account.
06/21/12  05:37pm
#2270932 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Vers   In reference to Message Id: 2270770  New Uro owner..need alittle help Ok been busy so havent had time to respond.. I intend to get an actual measurement and weight on this guy this weekend and ill be sure to keep updates on how things go as far as the supplements go. The outdoor pen will only be used a few hours a day in good bright weather. Its goin on a little metal cart with wheels and will be at least 2’ off the ground(cant remember exact height of cart) Its just goin to be simple - wood for the structure with the floor covered in vinyl flooring, vinyl coated fencing w/ i believe half inch square openings and a lid made of the same. Itll have slate and driftwood and other things to climb or lay on as well as a covered side to get out of the sun. He’ll only be out a few hours at a time and never overnight or anything. Im going to be workin on coming up with a humid burrow hide this weekend and will also see about getting a good hygrometer. On a good note he did come out yesterday when i got off work and ate some more and actually crawled up on the basking rock so i was happy bout that. And i took some pics =) Im going to work on putting up pics now... Thanks again
06/23/12  11:18am
#2270935 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2270932  New Uro owner..need alittle help Ok now if this works this is what i took yesterday while he was basking. Can you tell if it is in fact a Mali? Also you can see where he needs to shed on his tail This is his set up before i got the lights set up on the right side (and before i put him in it) And this is just him basking again from dif angle And dont worry..the rocks are secure and not goin to crash down on him
06/23/12  11:50am
#2270936 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2270935  New Uro owner..need alittle help Ok so that didnt work...i dont get how to do it i guess
06/23/12  11:51am
#2270963 Vers View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2270936  New Uro owner..need alittle help Just copy and paste the url to your image hosting account, that would be easier.
06/23/12  04:01pm
#2270964 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2270936  New Uro owner..need alittle help Link
06/23/12  04:23pm
#2270965 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2270964  New Uro owner..need alittle help Please let me know if it works..
06/23/12  04:24pm
#2271001 Vers View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2270965  New Uro owner..need alittle help Yep, it worked. You most definitely have a moroccan.
06/23/12  10:28pm
#2271062 Vers View Profile	Message To: Vers   In reference to Message Id: 2271001  New Uro owner..need alittle help By the way, I’m not sure if you have any lighting over the cool end (the picture of the entire set up doesn’t appear to show any) but if you don’t I would definitely get yourself a high output (1600-2000+ lumens) daylight rated fluorescent (be it a CFL or t5 HO) to place over that area as the enclosure appears pretty dark. You want to aim for very even, bright light across the entire space.
06/24/12  09:52am
#2271071 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Vers   In reference to Message Id: 2271062  New Uro owner..need alittle help I actually have 3 of the spiral bulbs on the cool end. I just didnt have them set up when i took that pic.
06/24/12  11:50am
#2271120 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Vers   In reference to Message Id: 2271062  New Uro owner..need alittle help I added a few pics of the outdoor cage my husband and i built today. Its on a metal cart so it rolls around. The base used to be a dog bed we built a while back ,we just flipped it over. Im not finished w/ the inside but the structure is done..the link i already posted should have the pics
06/24/12  07:56pm
#2273298 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2271120  New Uro owner..need alittle help Ok i realize this is not really the right place for this but i wanted to let people know that im going to be rehoming this guy. Im going to put an ad up in the classified area and saw that there doesnt seem to be alot of traffice there so i thought maybe i could let people know here. I think this guy needs a better home with someone with more understanding of things. I feel like he hides too much and doesnt eat enough(he looks skinny) and although he was super friendly at the pet store he wont let us pick him up now..Its all really frustrating and i feel like im clearly doing something wrong so im willing to take a loss and find someone who can do better with him.
07/14/12  02:37pm
#2273301 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2273298  New Uro owner..need alittle help Well i guess i cant post there..It says no sales here but it doesnt say i cant give him away so if anyone with experience is willing to give him a home please let me know. Im in Findlay Ohio..
07/14/12  02:41pm
#2273341 Kelso reptiles View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2273301  New Uro owner..need alittle help you have to ask the webmaster for use in the clasifieds area. i would take it but i live all the way in california :/
07/14/12  05:34pm
#2273372 Vers View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2273301  New Uro owner..need alittle help That is bad news, especially since it seems like you were on the right track. Honestly, I don’t think you’ve owned the animal long enough...it needs more time to settle and and get used to its surroundings. Are you sure you don’t want to give it a bit more time? If not, I would take him/her off your hands and either keep it for myself or foster it until I could find a good home for it. But before you decide I really would like to see you try a bit longer. While there is a learning curve to keeping these animals once you master the basics it’s all down hill. Others have come here willing to learn only to become overwhelmed and forced to the verge of giving up, but some of them pushed forward and have found success--I hope you become one of them.
07/15/12  12:33am
#2273394 Sie fat uro View Profile	Message To: Vers   In reference to Message Id: 2273372  New Uro owner..need alittle help Shame your having to give her away but I just thought i’d add that as far as I can tell that looks like a female Mali or dispar... As it lacks a nuchal stripe and the head an unbroken black but it has thin cheeks an light build of female.
07/15/12  10:15am
#2273398 Vers View Profile	Message To: Sie fat uro   In reference to Message Id: 2273394  New Uro owner..need alittle help But the head is dark and it has a faint ladder/fishbone dorsal pattern. I’m still sticking with moroccan.
07/15/12  11:25am
#2273400 Vers View Profile	Message To: Vers   In reference to Message Id: 2273398  New Uro owner..need alittle help ps, check out fauna or kingsnake classifieds and look into the moroccans Kevin Switzer has put up--you’ll see the similarities straight away.
07/15/12  11:34am
#2273429 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Vers   In reference to Message Id: 2273372  New Uro owner..need alittle help Ok so yesterday i decided to use a glove and get ’him’ out. He freaked out but once i got him out and took the glove off he just started crawling around checking things out. He never stopped moving though so i was doing the hand over hand thing for a long time. I put him back during a short period where he stopped for a break. Today he didnt run when i went toward the cage and i was able to get him out without the glove and without bein tail whipped which surprised me. My biggest concern isnt that i was unable to hold him before but hes looking really skinny. I know he was eating when i first got him since the food was dissappearing but it seems like hes stopped. When i got him out yesterday i weighed and measured him. Hes 10" and 103grams and waay too skinny. I regret not weighing him right when i got him since now i have nothing to compare to. I honestly feel like hes going to die in my care and i dont know how to fix whatever the problem is. My beardie is going to the vet tomorrow for a checkup so im gonna call and see if i can take him in too. Anyways Ill obviously do what i can to help him but my offer still stands if someone is willing to take him who feels that they can get him healthy and in better shape..
07/15/12  03:59pm
#2273433 Vers View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2273429  New Uro owner..need alittle help I would recommend not handling it for now, this is most likely causing a lot of stress, hence the lack of appetite and prolonged hiding. Try feeding in the early am when the animal is still in a hide and avoid any unnecessary access when the animal is out. Accessing the tank from above, again, causes stress. Top predators of these animals in the wild include birds, which hunt from above. When you stick your hand in from the top of the tank you will trigger a natural response for the animal to seek shelter. This should be avoided even after the animal acclimates. A checkup would be a good idea as well, specifically for a fecal exam.
07/15/12  04:18pm
#2273438 Cinder View Profile	Message To: Vers   In reference to Message Id: 2273433  New Uro owner..need alittle help Well weve been viewing him from a distance to try not to freak him out and yesterday was the first time since ive had him that i tried to hold him. I put my arm in on the other side of the tank and bring my hand towards him close to the ground. Ill try to leave him be though aside from a vet visit. He is fed in the morning after my husband wakes up between 8-9am and hes usually still under the rock then pokes his head out after a while. I was going to change him to sand originally but decided to stay with the millet for now however today i saw him leaning over his log and eating seeds. Could he maybe be eating seeds instead of his greens? Obviously that would cause nutrition problems..
07/15/12  04:58pm
#2273439 Vers View Profile	Message To: Cinder   In reference to Message Id: 2273438  New Uro owner..need alittle help Yes, its quite possible that its eateng the seeds over the greens--I’ve heard of this being an issue with millet.
07/15/12  05:02pm
#2273453 Sie fat uro View Profile	Message To: Vers   In reference to Message Id: 2273439  New Uro owner..need alittle help Sorry that last bit wasn’t too clear.. I meant moroccans usually have large patches or stripes on their head of their underlying colouration... But I can see what you mean by the similarities but with ought the nuchal stripe I’m still inclined to say dispar or Mali. Also dispar often have the honeycomb pattern to a certain extent as do some Mali’s. Also that seems very light I would expect a Uro from (acanthinurus/dispar) group to weigh around 150 to 200 grams as they are bulkier than the ornata/ocellata group and I don’t think that eating the lentils and seeds would cause him to loose weight more the opposite due to their high fat and protien levels. but if he is not eating much he may also be dehydrated as they can only get their water from their food so feeding him high fat and protien level foods is not a good idea as they take a lot of water to digest. leaving my best guess to be parasites which would not be good and the only way to check would be to have a feacal exam done by a vet as suggested by vers otherwise it could just be stress putting him off feeding.
07/15/12  06:12pm

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