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 #1648624


Dj arlt
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 Gaboon for a beginner?

I’d love to have a gaboon, but I’m told there not a beginner hot, YET I’m told there is NO beginning hot! So I sort of get what everyone is getting at and then yet again I don’t. There always a begining
everything for any sort of animal, some are easier to take care of, and some are harder.

copper head or western green mamba? one is DEFINITELY easier than the other. I’ve had reitcs, red tails, tarantulas, scorpions and other things of that nature including many other snakes. I’ve never owed a hot but I am really considering it. Now I think I could handle a gaboon for a first(not literally of course) but I’ve heard many different things. When it comes to most animals I know what I’m doing, but as I say again I’ve never had nothing more than a copper head I’ve caught and kept for a few days and released again. I know the laws where I live, and know what I’m wanting to get into. I know all about the calling to see who would have a anti venom if I was to get bit, and what hospital to go to, the procedure for after I get bit(if I was too). I am a responsible animal keeper, I knew a hot isn’t a pet. It’s a animal I keep to look at, understand, and respect. I don’t want it to show off, play with, or try to "be cool". I absolutely love the look of the gaboons and rhinos, I am aware of venom toxicity, fang size, extremely fast strike speed, and how there attitude usually is.


I just want some experienced hot keepers 2 cents, if you don’t know what your talking about, or keep something rear fanged PLEASE! it’s not quite the same as what I want to get into.

Like I said right now I have a 14 month old male retic python, 3yr old BCI, and a Mexican red knee tarantula. So if I’m in a snake handling mood I can go to something other than a gaboon lol.



Thank you,
DJ Arlt
03/05/08  05:11am

 #1648696


JEFF QUARLES
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1648624


 Gaboon for a beginner?

Ridicules question! I think you know the answer. A Gaboon is the last snake for a biginner.



03/05/08  07:37am

 #1648795


Sully
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   Message To: JEFF QUARLES   In reference to Message Id: 1648696


 Gaboon for a beginner?

what JQ said.
03/05/08  09:35am

 #1648837


Dj arlt
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   Message To: Sully   In reference to Message Id: 1648795


 Gaboon for a beginner?

That makes me want to ask the other dumb question. What is good for a beginner? I would GUESS something like a copper head. Venom isn’t too bad, not a very large snake, and not known to be very aggressive.


See I thought along the lines of, it’s a snake you keep in a cage, care for, feed, and clean the cage. I don’t have to wrestle with it or anything. you just wouldn’t want to get but by a gaboon, there not slim extremely fast snakes. You’ll try just as hard not getting bitten by anything else as you would with a gaboon(i would think so anyways) Wouldn’t the most dangerous part be having to move it out of the cage to clean it? Unless you think about having to remove an eyelid that’s stuck on, which a big ol’ gaboon head would be easier to get ahold of than most snakes.

See people that really aren’t willing to help out, and give assistance don’t help at all. I’m not a ignorant 12 year old wanting to get a king cobra, I’m a experience reptile keeper asking a simple question, not asking weather you think it’s stupid or not.


"a gaboon isn’t a beginner! it had strong venom and long fangs!!"--well hell guys I never planned on getting bit. I didn’t think "well i should get a hog nose because when I do get bit it wont be bad!’’

I know bites happen on accident, no one plans on it but if you have it as a beginner or a experienced keeper and get bit, the venom isn’t any less toxic. I know when you get bit, it’s YOUR FAULT! it’s something you have done to cause the snake to want to strike, I’ve had snakes and other reptiles for about 12 years or so, and I’ve only gotten one really good bite. I had a corn but that thing bit every time it could. Don’t give yourself a chance to get bit, and you wont. Simple as that isn’t it?



So could you all just enlighten me on this subject. Because I really would like to get into hots. I have a full time job, money, room. You know, the basics for expanding a collection a little. Please don’t insult my intelligence and consider me ignorant. Because I am not! I just want a friendly conversation on hots, and a good introduction into this part of the herp hobby.


Thank you,
DJ Arlt
03/05/08  10:27am

 #1648845


Dj arlt
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1648837


 Gaboon for a beginner?

and JQ I’m not trying to insult you or saying you don’t know what your talking about, I know you know a lot more than I do about venomous, hands down. I just would like to hear your opinion and starting out on these sorts of snakes.


And sully I didn’t know you kept hots.


DJ
03/05/08  10:32am

 #1648917


Herpsarelife
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1648845


 Gaboon for a beginner?

if you’ve never kept hots before, i would start with a rear fanged. we have a madagascan blonde hognose (closer to the false cobra than a hognose). he handles pretty good, but is jumpy sometimes. he hoods out some. if you are bitten, it is harder for them to envenomate you since their fangs are in the back and if he does get you, your hand may be numb for a couple days and maybe a little sick to your stomach, but nothing serious.
03/05/08  11:55am

 #1648919


JEFF QUARLES
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1648845


 Gaboon for a beginner?

Copperheads or even Mangrove snakes would always be my first hot. Copperheads were the first hots I caught and kept. One thing that is statistically true; If you keep hots for 10 years or more the odds are or at least studies show that it’s not if you get bit but when. I’ve kept hots for 30 years beginning with a copperhead in a coffee can in my big brothers bedroom closet at the age of 12. I have been popped 3 times since. The last occasion was when my Cottonmouth got me through a pillow case while getting ready to do a boyscout program 2 years ago. My hand was not even near the pillow case but the cotton struck so hard against the pillow case that it managed to reach my pinkie. If anyone of the three hots had been super hot it would have more than likely killed me.



03/05/08  11:57am

 #1648927


Sully
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1648845


 Gaboon for a beginner?

I don’t keep hots~

But even I know a gaboon is a terrible choice for a first hot( and if you had done much research at all, you should know this too ) I’m not trying to condescend, it just doesnt seem you have done much research AT ALL on the matter.
As for what might be a good first hot ( I’m gonna leave out rear fangs, even though I usually suggest them before getting anything truly hot ) copperheads, pygmy rattlesnakes, even cottonmouths can be considered decent first hots. I’ve even heard of naja pallida being a decent first hot( pretty slow strikers compares to most vipers, but that doesnt make it any safer ) if you don’t mind the face mask, but since its an exotic species AV for it could be hard to come by, I personally would not suggest any cobra as a first hot though.

Some people DO consider mangrove snakes ’’hot’’, I’ve read of some pretty nasty reactions from their bites.

People here who actually have experience can tell you more about anything more detailed, as I do not feel I am qualified to say anything more on the subject.
03/05/08  12:05pm

 #1648932


Dj arlt
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   Message To: JEFF QUARLES   In reference to Message Id: 1648919


 Gaboon for a beginner?

Thanks for the information guys. Yeah I’ve heard some odd story’s of people getting bitten before. I know it’s also something you get more relaxed around the snakes, you don’t go out of the way to get bitten anymore and let your guard down, or that’s how i think it would be. I’ve been that way with a black rat snake I caught from outside, seemed docile so i just free handled it and it bit me right on the side of my neck, the people around me were laughing quite a bit and I was more stunned then hurt.

I’ve been interested in a mangrove snake before, those are REALLY hot though are they? I believe I seen one at a local reptile show(venomous free show) so I know it’s not deadly, unless allergic I would suppose. But how are they in terms of feeding reponses, and temperment? I’d hate to have to force feed anysort of snake, the only snakes I’ve ever had a real problem with were balls and corns, I never had luck with what everone told me to get at first so i jumped into a common boa, and my knowledge grew with the snake. then from there a retic! It was all great untill time to house a 7 foot reitc but i got it taken care of.


Thanks once again for the information and taking the time to listen to me, and heres some pictures for you time.

DJ




03/05/08  12:09pm

 #1648955


Sully
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1648932


 Gaboon for a beginner?

Mangroves are not lethal- at least I have never heard of, nor anyone I know, a deadly bite.

the methods of hooking a gaboon is much different from a copperhead too... since gaboons are so much larger, heavy bodies snakes, you must use two hooks ( on an adult ) in order to support the snakes weight, without hurting the snake, plus toxcicity, how freaking fast they strike, and how they are capable of striking. they are capable of striking you no matter where you are ( if you are ever in range of the strike ) even if you are 180 degree behind their head they can get you!

I’d definetly suggest a mangrove snake as a first step towards hots, I know a guy who sells nice looking, healthy specimens, pm if you are interested.

p.s. a mangrove will most likely be my first step towards hots, when I have my own place.
03/05/08  12:33pm

 #1648968


Dj arlt
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   Message To: Sully   In reference to Message Id: 1648955


 Gaboon for a beginner?

I’ve thought about them before, but I’ll definitely consider one now, there a lot easier to get a hold of also.


Thank you,


DJ
03/05/08  12:46pm

 #1648974


Sully
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1648968


 Gaboon for a beginner?


As for mangroves feeding, all of my buddies who keep them have had very few problems with feeding. when its night time they will pretty much latch onto anything-watch out.

the guy I reccomended will give you a rundown of their care, and make sure you know the deal before he sells one to you.

good luck.
03/05/08  12:54pm

 #1648976


Dj arlt
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   Message To: Sully   In reference to Message Id: 1648974


 Gaboon for a beginner?

shoot sounds like my retic, calm and nice as can be, once he smells a rat everything is fair game. My leg, my hand, my dog, my head, he dosen’t have good aim eaither as that goes!



But thanks a lot

DJ
03/05/08  12:58pm

 #1648980


Sully
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1648976


 Gaboon for a beginner?

look for a youtube user named viperkeeper. he has some very informative videos- lots of them too.
03/05/08  01:09pm

 #1649265


Dj arlt
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   Message To: Sully   In reference to Message Id: 1648980


 Gaboon for a beginner?

I’ve been watching his videos since he started making them lol. I love Al!!
03/05/08  04:51pm

 #1649452


FordGT891
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1649265


 Gaboon for a beginner?

I don’t own any hots, but I do have a warm (as stated by herpsarelife,) he is a blonde madagascar hognose. I would like to get into hots eventually, but I decided that I would like to start with a rear fanged. I was hoping for a false water cobra, and nearly bought an egyptian false cobra, but I held out until the next show and found this guy. He acts much like the false cobras, and technically, he is venomous, but a bite wont kill you, it wont cost you thousands of dollars and it wont cause severe agony. Granted, this guy is fairly easy to handle, but something like a mangrove snake would be a step up from this. They can be very ill tempered and quick to strike. Maybe try to keep one of these for a year and see what happens. The mangrove also has the rear fangs, and is only a warm snake.

On a side note, I will never have a gaboon in my house. ever. They scare the living crap out of me. I don’t know why, but they do. I think they are beautiful, and I love to see them through glass, but I could not ever work with one. There are a few species that scare the crap out of me, and the Gaboon is one of them. I will not keep any animal that I can’t be at ease with working with and have a degree of confidience while still giving the animal the full respect that it deserves.

Sorry to go on, feeling wordy today.
03/05/08  06:41pm

 #1649580


Dj arlt
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   Message To: FordGT891   In reference to Message Id: 1649452


 Gaboon for a beginner?

Yeah I mean I have a retic as said before, a lot of people say thats a very aggressive fast to bite snake. Well then I got my own and seen that everyone who said that had no clue, or raised there snake completly wrong. Being bit and the pain wouldn’t bother me(of the mangrove, not the gaboon!). Like someone said somethign about holding down a snake with that much strength. Have you ever tried to remove a eyelid off of a 7ft retic? yeah there nto weak, considering they use there strength to kill there prey. I have sat there and tried to get the eyelid of before he constricted me till i passesd out lol.

It’s just one of those things, I have to learn on my own and take advice from who I see fit.



DJ
03/05/08  08:13pm

 #1649737


FishMich
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1649580


 Gaboon for a beginner?

there are a lot of things that need to be considered here. a gaboon is an incredibly poor choice for a beginner hot and ill try to explain why. you can say all you want that you wont become complacent but it is almost inevitable, gaboons just inspire it with their seemingly calm demeanor. you can also say that you know what they are capable of in terms of strike range but i assure you that until you witness it you wont understand. you cannot compare your dealings with retics and boas to what you may have to deal with in a large bitis. nerves play a big role in how you function while working with these snakes. say for instance you do have to restrain the snake for some reason...you might say youve done so with a large angry retic but this is a bit different. staying calm while you have a gabby pinned and both incredibly large fangs are within a fraction of a second from possibly ending your life is fairly nerve-racking and this makes things much more difficult to deal with. you always have to keep in mind that there is much more to keeping the animal then just moving it to and from its enclosure and you have to ask yourself if you are ready. you also have to come to terms with the fact that if you do get bit, there is a good chance you will die. you should also know that even if the animal wasnt venomous it would still be a bigger challenge to keep than snakes youve previously kept. also, once you purchase the snake it is up to you to give it the care it needs. buying it just to test it out, deciding you arent ready, and then passing it off to someone else who may not care for is not a good option. this is some serious stuff so do your best to make an informed decision, maybe try to find a keeper near you who will let you check things out.
~bill
sorry for the choppy writing, just tryin to keep it short.



03/05/08  09:42pm

 #1649949


Jparker1167
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   Message To: FishMich   In reference to Message Id: 1649737


 Gaboon for a beginner?

i keep venomous and would also like to say something a gaboon is not a good first for reasons already said. no one is saying you couldnt handle it but why risk it when you can start with something that is a better choice? a retic is no where near a gaboon i would rather take an eye cap off a 7 foot retic with my teeth then a angry gaboon lol. gaboons are fast and one slip and you could be in real trouble, gaboons are also strong and have a powerful strike which is hard to read

if you really want to keep venomous then take advise from experienced keepers start with a copperhead or a small rattler then work up to a gabby, i know a guy that was treating a rhino viper for a mouth injury, hes kept venomous along time and it happend to get a fang out and get his right hand pointer finger and pulled it in its mouth holding on for about 15 seconds, he was in a coma for awhile and amputated that finger also the hospital bill was $286,000 thats alot of money to pay for a mistake.

gaboons are great snakes amazing color and for the most part pretty calm my male is a nut case and likes to shot out of the cage on the floor and its the experience with venomous that stops you from trying to catch it. good luck with what ever you do and if you have more questions ask them before you get something not after lol
03/06/08  01:29am

 #1650045


Dj arlt
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   Message To: Jparker1167   In reference to Message Id: 1649949


 Gaboon for a beginner?

lol yeah I know what everyone is trying to say. But it’s also something I’ve heard with the whole you can buy a baby and grow with it, learn it’s habits. People who get bit, are the ones people talking about mostly "my friend has had them for 80 years and he got bit" yeah you learn to let your guard down. You have the snake a few years and think "he hasen’t even tried to bite me in years. i wonder if he’ll let me rub him" hey well that wont work now will it. Its just my nature like when people told me to start with a ball python or a corn snake, i hated that, i hated every time i heard that. Those have been the WORST snakes I’ve ever tried to keep. and everyone says there so great so i just got a red tail and grew with it and it worked. The only thing I see with buying a copper head or something is the sort is practicing not to get bit? trying to get used to a snake I have to be careful around and not play with? yeah it might be a strong snake, but"not to sound like a stupid kid" I’m 6’4 about 300lbs, I’ve worked with snakes and holding there heads down, no they weren’t gaboons but they were snakes.


That’s it I’m getting a king cobra :P lol no but I do start volunteering at my local zoo next week, so maybe I can get some experience with some of there venomous snakes first, before considering my own. It’s just a think if I’m at a venomous expo and see a baby gabby sitting there for 100 bucks, I’ll forget everything I’ve heard lol. It will be heard getting into the habit of not wanting to pick up my snakes and handle it, let it run around. And I’m sure everyone on here is against venomids right? lol stupid question I’m sure. I seen a whole website dedicated to that sort of thing, to me that’s taking away one of the things that makes the snake special. I was actually watching TV last night and noticed Robbie Keszey getting a bite from a gaboon, because it’s fang went thru the bottom of it’s mouth, into his finger. Luckily it was a dry bite! but I thought"that’s some $hit that would happen to me. But I always thought you were supposed to be really careful in not letting the snake bite itself? Well guys I’m off for a while to work.



Thanks for all the advice and criticism, and not completely bashing me into a hole in the ground.


DJ
03/06/08  07:21am

 #1650153


Sully
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1650045


 Gaboon for a beginner?

It’s a whole different story comparing ball pythons and corn snakes to a gaboon. People told you to get a ball python or a corn snake first, you said ’’eff’’ it I’m just gonna get a boa. which is not a bad thing, I think bci is a very good starter snake if you get a baby and grow with it. but ignoring what people reccomend to get AS A FIRST HOT, will most likely end your life. copperhead bite- most likely wont even need AV ( I’m not saying that you shjouldnt go to the hospital if you get bit by a copper head, just saying! ) get bit by a gaboon you run a very good chance of dying.

now I ask you, is that really worth it? or is it worth it to start out small ( like a copperhead ) then work your way up, building the skill, knowledge and confidence it takes to work with any large bitis. and still you could get bit, working with venomous snakes is very unforgiving.

as for volenteer work at a zoo, you probably wont get ANY work with hots there.
Here at the denver zoo the whole first year of volenteering is spent with customer service. When I spoke with them about me possibly working with the hots-after ’’x’’ amount of volenteering there, and once I would be over 18 ( as I am now only 17 ) they said it would be an impossibility. and there are NO other places for me to get any sort of mentoring in this state. the only person in this state ( privately ) who can own venomous snakes is the owner of bushmaster reptiles., and he does know mentoring. I’m still trying to figure out how i plan to keep hots here- legally, might not be do-able.

hopefully thats not the case where you live though :) seek a mentor though.
03/06/08  11:02am

 #1650250


Dj arlt
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   Message To: Sully   In reference to Message Id: 1650153


 Gaboon for a beginner?

I wouldn’t trust anyone I know around in feeding my snakes, there is no one where I live who keeps venomous, besides rednecks with copperheads ect. I’m also going to college this fall for Zoo and Aquarium science, so I don’t know how they’ll react to me wanting to do that. Here you can basically do anything you want at the zoo, if you’ll willing to donate more and more time. Example-if you want to do wild life rehabilitation you have to agree to give 90 hours for that certain season. I’m not EXACTLY comparing corns and balls to a gaboon, I’m not an idiot. Please don’t talk to me like I am. It all comes down to if I’m going to or not, like I said before, if you get bit when you’ve a experienced keeper, or a beginner it’s just as deadly isn’t it? Most people who get bit are experienced keepers! How about that.


I like to think you all worry about me that much not to get one, because I know I have the knowledge to care for that kind of snake. When it comes to owning, a snake is a snake. When it comes to handling that’s where the difference is. If you think I want to see if it’s going to eat food out of my hand, or come up and lick my face your sadly mistaken!! I do that with my other snakes and I would never cheat on them ;) But I wasn’t on my way to buy one right now, I don’t know if I made it sound as such. I was just getting ready for sometime in the future, when I planned on getting another snake, I just spent about 600 on the two snakes I have now. But thanks everyone for you help once more.



Thanks,
DJ
03/06/08  01:23pm

 #1650267


Sully
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1650250


 Gaboon for a beginner?

Ya know I’m guessing you have been keeping snakes for 3 years- about. you said your bci was your first snake and its 3 years old; I rest my case. Ya know if you really think that after all that has been said, you can just go out and get a gaboon for your first hot ( whenever that time is ) then ya know what, go for it.

I was NOT talking to you like you are an idiot, I was just saying how huge the difference is between what your first snake is, and what your first HOT snake is. but again, if you REALLY think its no big deal to get a gaboon as a first, no one here is gonna be able to save you from your own stupidity.
03/06/08  01:39pm

 #1650271


Jparker1167
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1650250


 Gaboon for a beginner?

i dont think anyone is saying you will be stupid with the snake, just that its better to start off low and work you way up. "Most people who get bit are experienced keepers! How about that" ? its alot different getting bit after keeping an animal for 20 or more years then the inexperienced person getting bit in 2 days. the longer you keep them the better chance you have of getting bit, i hear alot about people getting bit a few days after they get the animals just as much as an experienced person.

there was a fire fighter in ohio that got bit by a 20" rhino viper the night he got it. he died.. another story i remember was a person getting a cobra and getting it home when they opened the box and the snake shot out and tried to bite them they got it back in the box and took it outside and dumped gasoline on it and caught it on fire because they where afriad of the snake. you dont want to get in over your head and get something that you will be afraid of. where are you from dj ?




03/06/08  01:40pm

 #1650275


Jparker1167
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   Message To: Jparker1167   In reference to Message Id: 1650271


 Gaboon for a beginner?

i see your in nc im in pa do you ever go to the hamburg show or any shows in the pa area ?
03/06/08  01:42pm

 #1650289


Dj arlt
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   Message To: Jparker1167   In reference to Message Id: 1650275


 Gaboon for a beginner?

I haven’t gone to a pa show but I was thinking it going with mark from Boamaster. Lord you guys are getting far to angry! My BCI was my first "bigger" snake. and it will be 4 years I’ve had her this November. See you do not know me at all, I am NOT the kind of person to give my self the chance to get bit the first night and die. And if someone went to open the box and a cobra flew out "oh lord!" and lit it on fire? are you serious? How stupid is that person? for one when does a cobra just come in a box? There almost always bagged and then boxed if there shipped. You’re giving me some good stories man, but none of them could come near to describing the kind of person I am, or what sort of knowledge and experience I have. You didn’t call me stupid before but you came pretty darn close this time.


You just seem like one of the keepers, who thinks there better than the average herp keeper. Please take time to come down from your throne, and get to know someone before saying absurd things about them. I decided not to get a gaboon, so everyone stop worrying so much please! I mean I might still get one eventually, but not as a first. I though you could tell that from the conversations I’ve been having with all these nice people. Everyone just calm down and don’t’ be so quick to jump for the throat, no reason to kill here.


Alrighty now, lets be friendly now. I’m not getting a gaboon, it MAY be a little out of my league right this second. When I do come to a decision and am ready to get my first hot, I’ll be sure to come back here. I’m sure all of you will kindly remember me, and will help me in my further search.


Thanks everyone

DJ
03/06/08  02:04pm

 #1650290


Dj arlt
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1650289


 Gaboon for a beginner?

And yes I’m from North Carolina, I wont tell you more so you don’t come strangle me or something. Just joking of course!
03/06/08  02:05pm

 #1650291


Sully
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1650289


 Gaboon for a beginner?

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, other than a bci and a tic, what have you kept?
03/06/08  02:07pm

 #1650307


Dj arlt
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   Message To: Sully   In reference to Message Id: 1650291


 Gaboon for a beginner?

ehh nothing to special as far as snakes go, a few balls, a corn or two, a emory rat snake, cali. king, albino cali. king, bull/gopher snake, an I cared for a friends hog nose, and I worked with a number of different things when I worked at the local pet store. As far as other reptiles I don’t have time to list them all lol. I kept a lot of things when I was younger and when i worked at the pet store that I would buy from the local shows and sell for some profit. I kept a lot of different animals in my life, it’s just what I enjoy and what makes me happy. I’m sure you all can understand that. I kept a lot of things just looking for the "perfect pet". and the three things I have now have been my favorites out of the exotic pets.

And are you really just wondering out of curiosity? I’m paranoid now.



03/06/08  02:28pm

 #1650308


Sully
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   Message To: Dj arlt   In reference to Message Id: 1650307


 Gaboon for a beginner?

why else would I ask?
03/06/08  02:31pm
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