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 Member  Message

 #1783229


Eekster
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 Free Handling Article!

Free Handling Venomous Snakes

I’ve been working on a little project over the past 5 months involving free handling venomous snakes and the possibility of taming or calming. I personally feel they cannot be tamed or calmed but opinions without proof don’t mean much. The reason for this research is to educate I have heard many newcomers talk of taming or calming venomous snakes along with free handling and this is very risky business to say the least and should not be done by anyone.

Just for the record I do not condone free handling Venomous Reptiles

I put myself in danger to gather information in an attempt to further understand venomous snakes along with writing an article on free handling venomous with actual hands on research rather than personal opinions.

Ok to get started this project involved 9 Cobras 5 CB babies and 2 WC sub adults and 2 CB sub adults averaging 2 years old. Cobras are my main focus since they are somewhat predictable Vs vipers and such.

The snakes I used:
1.1 Blue Eyed Leucistic Monocled Cobras
1.1 Red eyed Leucistic Monocled cobras
0.1 Formosa Cobra
1.1 Black and White Spitting Cobra
1.1 Black Pakistan Cobra.

I used a variety of species in my research although in my personal opinion cobras have a similar mentality but there are exceptions to every rule. I also handled different sexes of different pairs I will break down in a moment. The snakes I chose to handle in each pair were decided at random but were the only snake in the pair that was free handled. I handled the chosen snakes twice a week from February 15th 2008 to July 1st 2008 the exception is the Formosa cobras since I only have a female that I have possessed since April but she has been handled twice weekly.

The snakes I chose to handle:
1.0 CB 07 Red eyed Leucistic Monocled Cobra
0.1 CB 07 Blue Eyed Leucistic Monocled Cobra
0.1 CB 08 Formosa Cobra
1.0 WC 06 Black and White Spitting Cobra
0.1 CB 06 Black Pakistan Cobra

Now you know the snakes used, we will move on to the handling. It was done Monday and Friday, the reason I chose those days was due to feeding. I wanted to see if it made a difference in temperament on an empty or full stomach. I feed on Saturday so Friday they would be hungry, and Monday 48 hours give or take after feeding they would be full. I handled the snakes for an average 10-15 minutes although some days less due to temperament. I didn’t document each snakes time being handled but I did monitor days, feeding, and temperament.

I know everyone is dying to know the results of this research so I will get to it.

Handling different sex of snake of the same or different species made no difference in temperament of the snakes both acted the same.

Handling on a full or empty stomach also made no difference in temperament.

Now on to my conclusion of the snakes that were handled and the ones that were not. It made no difference what so ever! The snakes that were handled are no calmer than the snakes that were not handled. I brought my little study to an early end of five months originally planning on a year but since the snakes have not calmed after five months the results are clear.

I do believe all the snakes used in this project can be handled using different techniques but as far as taming or calming not going to happen. Free handling is very dangerous and far too risky after this project I can assure you that you are not going to tame a cobra.

The results were obvious to me before doing this little project but I wanted to document and put it on paper. The whole project was very risky and stupid to say the least and some people might say well you must have done something your still here. I know my snakes and there reactions very well but they are by no means tame or calm. The handling made no difference.



07/04/08  11:52pm

 #1783399


Guido1090
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   Message To: Eekster   In reference to Message Id: 1783229


 Free Handling Article!

wow. good job on the experiment.

were some of your cobra species more relaxed than others?
07/05/08  10:44am

 #1783633


Eekster
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   Message To: Guido1090   In reference to Message Id: 1783399


 Free Handling Article!

The pictures I promised.


























07/05/08  03:30pm

 #1783705


Guido1090
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   Message To: Eekster   In reference to Message Id: 1783633


 Free Handling Article!

wow. are the first 2 pics of Sampson?
07/05/08  05:11pm

 #1783711


Eekster
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   Message To: Guido1090   In reference to Message Id: 1783705


 Free Handling Article!

Yeah that’s him/



07/05/08  05:22pm

 #1783855


Guido1090
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   Message To: Eekster   In reference to Message Id: 1783711


 Free Handling Article!

i didnt realize how small he is. he is a beauty!!
07/05/08  07:46pm

 #1783996


RePtiLOVER
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   Message To: Guido1090   In reference to Message Id: 1783855


 Free Handling Article!

GOOD STUFF! How long until you pop out some babies?
07/05/08  09:55pm

 #1784000


Eekster
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   Message To: RePtiLOVER   In reference to Message Id: 1783996


 Free Handling Article!

Well the black Paks will be ready next year and the leucistics will need 2 more years 2010 give or take.
07/05/08  09:57pm

 #1784007


Guido1090
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   Message To: Eekster   In reference to Message Id: 1784000


 Free Handling Article!

2010 is a good year :D i graduate that year
07/05/08  10:04pm

 #1784179


Shiftylarry
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   Message To: Guido1090   In reference to Message Id: 1784007


 Free Handling Article!

An interesting project, but entirely unnecessary. I could have told you that before you started. I can tell that you acknowledge that though. You’re right. It’s fairly stupid. You see like a bright guy, so why not stick around for a while? Although you may not die from a bite if you have access to anti-venom isn’t the potential loss of mobility in your hands and fingers reason enough to abandon this project? Furthermore, why not wear welding gloves to reduce the risk of envenomation from a knick?

Anyway, glad to see you’re alive. Now, leave that nonsense to the television personalities on Animal Planet. You know, the ones who can afford $100,000 cameras but feel it’s necessary to use a flimsy twig instead of a $20 snake hook.

Cheers
-Chris
07/06/08  01:11am

 #1785305


Slitherinslors
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   Message To: Eekster   In reference to Message Id: 1783229


 Free Handling Article!

well whats the deal with people handling venomoids? these type of snakes seem to be tame.

http://www.smuggled.com/VenSur6.htm
07/07/08  12:25am

 #1785347


Shiftylarry
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   Message To: Slitherinslors   In reference to Message Id: 1785305


 Free Handling Article!

I don’t think any responsible venomous snake keeper supports the inhumane practice of creating venomoids.
07/07/08  01:07am

 #1785352


Eekster
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   Message To: Shiftylarry   In reference to Message Id: 1785347


 Free Handling Article!

Well when one of my snakes starts getting irritated I have to put it down if it was a venomoid I could just keep pushing it basically breaking it with no fear of getting bitten. I can handle my snakes but I know when it’s time to put them down and for the record these are not venomoids just incase you thought that.



07/07/08  01:12am

 #1785361


Slitherinslors
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   Message To: Eekster   In reference to Message Id: 1785352


 Free Handling Article!

oh no dude by no means did i imply that your collection were venomoids. i dont support venomoids at all. with that said what i mean is that i have read many articles and seen many pics of retards who do keep venomoids that the snakes are must be handled by the keeper much more often so that the snake i would assume get accustomed to being handled so wont bite the owner and in the long run stop biting. understand what im trying to say? i think that this is an interesting point and observation. what do you think?
07/07/08  01:21am

 #1785363


Slitherinslors
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   Message To: Eekster   In reference to Message Id: 1783229


 Free Handling Article!

by the way i give you a lot of credit for your project. i think its very interesting and ingenious.
07/07/08  01:23am

 #1785369


Eekster
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   Message To: Slitherinslors   In reference to Message Id: 1785361


 Free Handling Article!

I have a venomouid gaboon I use in differnt shows and such it was given to me a year or so ago. I have only held the snake 3-4 times for less than 5 minutes the snake was never handled much by the previous owner. Since I have a show coming up next weekend and got him out held him for about15 minutes without any problem.

I would be willing to bet I could do the same thing with my female that is hot but I’m not that crazy cobras are some what predictible where gabons are not.



07/07/08  01:29am

 #1785370


Eekster
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   Message To: Slitherinslors   In reference to Message Id: 1785361


 Free Handling Article!

The thing is the fear is not there with a venomoid so a seeming agressive venomous may not be all that bad if you weren’t worried about getting tagged once the venom is out of the subject people are not afraid to handle them.



07/07/08  01:31am

 #1785373


Slitherinslors
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   Message To: Eekster   In reference to Message Id: 1785370


 Free Handling Article!

are you sure that it was given to you or did you you go out and buy a venomoid?
07/07/08  01:33am

 #1785374


Eekster
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   Message To: Slitherinslors   In reference to Message Id: 1785373


 Free Handling Article!

I’m sure it was given to me but I personally don’t have any feeling towards venomoids for the most part. I feel it’s unesscary and would never pay 500.00 venomoid when I can get the real deal for 100.00



07/07/08  01:35am

 #1785377


Slitherinslors
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   Message To: Slitherinslors   In reference to Message Id: 1785373


 Free Handling Article!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! that was a joke. oh by the way im having trouble trying to register to your site. whats the problem. can you help me?
07/07/08  01:38am

 #1786267


Beardieaddict2012
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   Message To: Slitherinslors   In reference to Message Id: 1785377


 Free Handling Article!

Hey guys, i was just roaming the forums and i dont know much about snakes, I am more into monitors. So if you would please overlook the stupidity of this question...whats a venomoid??
07/07/08  09:17pm

 #1786386


ReptiGal94
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   Message To: Beardieaddict2012   In reference to Message Id: 1786267


 Free Handling Article!

A venomoid is a snake that’s had it’s venom glands removed and therefore, is not deadly.I myself have never owned a hot since I’m still underage and I don’t plan on owning one for probably 20 or so years and I can study up a bit.

People think that if they get a venomoid it will be just like a little python or boa and never bite.Any snake can bite.I know,I’ve had WC water snakes with no teeth bite me even though it wouldn’t do anything.Creating a venomoid is inhumane and just causes stress on the animal.

Lately I’ve even heard people say they wanted to see if they could make gilas and beaded lizards venomoids.it’s disgusting in my opinion.

Eekster: Thank you for that information.I had been wondering that for quite a while.I tame many aggressive wild caught snakes for people and a little girl actually asked me if I could tame a water moccasin so it got me wondering.Your pictures are beautiful and you’re very brave.
07/07/08  10:38pm

 #1786457


FLVenom
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   Message To: ReptiGal94   In reference to Message Id: 1786386


 Free Handling Article!

Eric, I totally disagree with your article and I find it deeply disturbing you would even consider to post this up. I seriously thought at first you were making some sort of joke, but sadly your not. All I have to ask is..whats the point of this so called "experiment"? It shows nothing that hasn’t been proven before, which is you can get away with it for a little while, and then a bite will happen. What was your envenomation plan if you got bit by the Naja naja for example? You would have to borrow antivenom from a zoo or have it flown up from Miami Dade. Again, I’m just shocked that you could try to justify this as science. Because to me, this is nothing but a side show from an inexperienced keeper. I’m sure by publishing this fantastic piece of work that you will have another person consider your accomplishments and try it themselves. Only this time is, they might not be as lucky. Yes, I know you put disclaimers but it doesn’t matter. We live in a do as I do society, where someone will be bound to follow you. While you could of done this article is good faith, you should of used better judgement.



07/07/08  11:25pm

 #1787707


PJ FF
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   Message To: FLVenom   In reference to Message Id: 1786457


 Free Handling Article!

I agree with FLVenom. It was not a needed experiment and it almost seems juvenile. I would have thought that you knew better but this shows your stupidity.
07/08/08  08:32pm

 #1787809


Slitherinslors
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   Message To: PJ FF   In reference to Message Id: 1787707


 Free Handling Article!

Ok im am a very logical reasonable person, with that said i will proceed to add my opinion. i in no way shape or form am going to condone this type of practice. it is evident that this type of practice will get you bitten in the long run eventually. there is no doubt about it. i dont doubt in my mind that us hot keepers disagree with that one bit. we all must agree that we are all guilty of provoking a bite in the scheme of our keeping. even the most experienced of keepers. this type of survey will pop is bound to take place with a hot keeper eventually. it did with much success in my opinion. esp. the fact noone got hurt. us hot keepers are bound to take these risks with our herps at some point or another and not realize it. that is why we are all still here arguing the subject. there is none out there that keeps hot gonna tell me that they put there asses on the line at some time or another for amusement, study or just plain laziness. NOONE!!
07/08/08  10:27pm

 #1788390


Snakeman24
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   Message To: Slitherinslors   In reference to Message Id: 1787809


 Free Handling Article!

I am deeply troubled to why you with five months experience would do this. What went through your mind.
07/09/08  12:31pm

 #1788467


Guido1090
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   Message To: Snakeman24   In reference to Message Id: 1788390


 Free Handling Article!

*snakeman24

i think you misunderstood part of his post.

Quote:

I’ve been working on a little project over the past 5 months involving free handling venomous snakes and the possibility of taming or calming.

he has been working on the project of free handling the cobras for 5 months. he has more than 5 months of experience with hot snakes.
07/09/08  01:21pm

 #1788577


Dawn & Terry
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   Message To: Eekster   In reference to Message Id: 1783229


 Free Handling Article!

Guess they told you aye Eric? lol.
07/09/08  02:54pm

 #1788828


Snakeman24
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   Message To: Dawn & Terry   In reference to Message Id: 1788577


 Free Handling Article!

Still free handling after 5 months training
07/09/08  06:38pm

 #1788894


Guido1090
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   Message To: Snakeman24   In reference to Message Id: 1788828


 Free Handling Article!

snakeman24 read the post better. he did not start free handling the snakes after 5 months of training. he free handled them for 5 months as his experiment. he has had hot snakes for a while.
07/09/08  07:30pm
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