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Ynevar Minya TwilightDreamer1979 Ynevar Ynevar TwilightDreamer1979 Ynevar TwilightDreamer1979 Ynevar Ynevar Cphill58 Ynevar Cphill58 TwilightDreamer1979 |
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Ynevar View Profile |
Surprise! We have a CWD!!!
Well we pick it up. Low and behold. It’s not a bearded dragon. It’s a Chinese Water Dragon!!!!! It was on bark... loaded with dead crickets, pinhead crickets--I think they were breeding in the tank as it was just teeming with crickets. I swear I wish I took pictures, I just had to get him OUT of there as quick as possible. He was so lethargic. Well. My husband picked him up and that was it. They chose each other. My husband was like, "We should keep him." I told my neighbor about it being a water dragon, that he will be anywhere from 24" to 36" and needs a very large enclosure. That he likely needs a vet visit if the fecals don’t provide info, heck he probably needs one anyway. She was like OMG.. I think it all sounded overwhelming to her. I explained what needed to be done to his tank and what I was doing and she was like wow... I said we want to keep him and she was like OKAY!!!! hehehe... He is BROWN not green. Although he has turned more green since we first got him. I ran out and got a UVB light for him as he did not have one and he is a few months old. I am sure he needs to have fecals done, I bet he has parasites. His first poo tomorrow I will do a fecal on him. He did do a tiny pooh in his bath. So much it took 3 hours to get everything squared away. My dragons are nuts and jealous. I have their views blocked off but they KNOW something is going on. My husband was talking to Gimpy and said, "Remember how you felt so icky when Mommy first brought you home and she took care of you? Well that’s what we need to do for this guy." It is so damn cute! So the dragon and the tarantula were being housed in the same 40 gallon breeder with a divider. I took the tarantula to the pet store and he was happy to take it. Tarantula scared the HECK OUT OF ME.... Yes I am a chicken. I bought the UVB light. Got home, took the bark out... NASTY... NASTY... All the while we had him in a sterlite container with the UVB over him and a basking light pointed his way. He went from brown to some green. He has a bit of retained shed on his head and under his eye. Once we got all the nasty bark out (I put it in a garbage bag and then in the freezer to kill anything in there then it will go into the trash), my husband rinsed out the tank outside and then brought it in and I used the professional cleaner on it. Dragon still lethargic. Once we got the tank sterilized and dried out we gave him a warm bath. Suddenly there is LIFE! He perked up, got more green and held his head high. My husband dried him off. There were brown goo all over his tail and we put him back in the bath and washed it off again gently. Then he did not want my husband to put him down into his clean tank. He climbed back up my husband’s arm. By this time... the husband is really taken with the little guy. After his bath, we got him in the tank and I got some greens and squash for him. He didn’t really look interested in them. I did get some dubia nymphs for him and he voraciously ate them. I was afraid to give him too many, so I gave him 7 that weren’t to big. I will see how he does and give him some more tomorrow. He didn’t seem to even want to eat the crickets in his bark. I think I’ll order some Phoenix worms for my dragons and for him to share. Before bath: [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7714042200/]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7714042200/]Untitled[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/54528314@N06/]ynevar[/url], on Flickr Bath Time: [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7714274516/]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7714274516/]Untitled[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/54528314@N06/]ynevar[/url], on Flickr This is from his tail after the bath... we put him back in and got more grime off him. I will rebathe him tomorrow. I didn’t want to stress him out too much with a vigorous scrubbing. [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7714273326/]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7714273326/]Untitled[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/54528314@N06/]ynevar[/url], on Flickr After bath, he is green!!! WOW! [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7715357136/]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7715357136/]stanley[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/54528314@N06/]ynevar[/url], on Flickr Hubby loves this lil one already! Who ever would have thought. Hehehe... cute!!!!!! [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7715357276/]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7715357276/]stanley2[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/54528314@N06/]ynevar[/url], on Flickr Okay I just copied that from the beardie forum I belong to... the above^^^^ We got him yesterday... I read your forum info and have spent all day yesterday and today going over info on Tricia’s site as well as other recommended sites of information. 1. What are your symptoms of sick CWD? He is not very active, he is more brown than green most of the time. I am sure he probably has some parasite going on. I will be doing a fecal exam as soon as he goes pooh. I do this for my beardies and am pretty adept at identifying parasites etc. I consult if need be for meds. I err on the side of caution and will take to the vet when in doubt. I read the most common ailments on Tricia’s site and didn’t notice anything that was described. We don’t have a great herp vet here (I live in Alaska). He breathes somewhat fast but is not gaping or anything like that. 2.What are your temps and humidity levels? Using a temp gun, temps vary in the enclosure. Basking temp 105, warm side 90 cooler side 79. Humidity level is unknown at this point. I purchased a humidity gauge from one of two pet stores in town. One is a big chain the other is a small pet store. The had them at the big chain, I had gotten it for my dubia colony that I am starting. However, it read 70% humidity... yet the cage walls were dry, egg crates dry as a bone... I am SURE it was defective. There is NO way it was 70% humidity. I had the small pet store order me some gauges since they were out. I live in Alaska so it will be a few days. I have been misting the sides of the enclosure a few times a day. There is a large water area for him to go into on one side as well. I covered about 1/2 of the screen top with a damp towel and re-dampen it. He was living on DRY bark before I got him. There was one area that was wet, I think that’s where they had the water. I can’t wait to get a gauge. 3.What are you using for heat? Currently have two basking spots using a 50 watt and a much smaller watt bulb, not even sure of the wattage but have tested the temps on that side and it keeps the tank from getting too cold on that side. 4.What are you using for lighting? Do you have a UVB bulb? and What kind is it? The previous owners never used UVB for the poor baby. I went out and got a Reptisun 5.0. It is 18" I have it set up so it is above his basking spot and the screen is moved to the side so he gets the full UVB not filtered out with the screen. I have been trying to find out exactly how high they should be away from him. 5.What is the CWD’s diet? What are you feeding him? He was being fed only crickets. That were breeding in his tank. When we got him we did not see him move toward or eat any of the crickets. We fed him 7 tiny dubias last night dusted with calcium. Today he ate 10 tiny dubias dusted with multivitamin. Not sure about the dusting and supplementation information, if that is the same as beardies or not but figured since he has never had them it won’t hurt for these two days. I also tried to feed him a bit of grated hubbard squash and finely chopped mustard greens, no interest. I don’t think they ever fed him any greens or veggies like that. I found a WHOLE grape tomato in his tank. 6.What size is your enclosure? He is in a 40 gallon breeder. He is about 12 inches long from nose to tail. We already have plans to build him a custom enclosure that is taller and bigger with a waterfall and live plants. Hubby is all excited about that. I am too actually! I have seen some very cool set ups for them. 7.What are you using for substrate? I am using paper towel right now. I didn’t want to put any soil in there until I got his fecals done. Any help you might give and information I would appreciate it. I am on overload and worried about the poor thing. I do see a noticeable difference in him from yesterday. He looks so much better. Not a beautiful green like he should be, but so much better. I know the UVB has helped him. Thanks in advance... Marcy |
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| 08/05/12 10:26pm |
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Minya View Profile |
Message To: Ynevar In reference to Message Id: 2275739 Surprise! We have a CWD!!!
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| 08/06/12 05:57am |
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TwilightDreamer1979 View Profile |
Message To: Minya In reference to Message Id: 2275759 Surprise! We have a CWD!!!
What a wonderful story and how lucky for that WD that you found him when you did! He would have been stressed from incorrect tank conditions and his food crawling all over him! The brown stuff you got off his tail could have just been stuck on bark dust. He looks LOADS better now he’s had a bath and a decent meal. I think you were right to restrict his food intake. Normally I would say you can’t over feed a baby WD, however, since this little guy hasn’t had the right heat, light, suppliments, or a varied diet, I think it’s wise to take it a little slow with him for now and not let him overload himself straight away. Once you’re sure he’s ok then let him eat as much as he wants as long as it’s gut loaded and of the correct size. 
Your WD should be able to get witin 12 inches of the UV, but ideally no closer than 6 inches. This is (or was) the optimum distance for UVB absorbsion. I have observed that the female WD’s tend to prefer men and the male WD’s tend to like women better, however, at face value I’d say your WD looks boyish 
From the pics your WD looks intactm tail, toes etc. his legs look to be right also (no hip issues) This is excellent. His eyes look bright and clear. That stuck shed will come off, just make sure he has a poor he can submerge in and he’ll make sure it comes off (don’t pick it  )
If he wont eat any greens (most WD’s refuse) make sure his live food is gut loaded with all the yummy goodness of the greens. The WD not being very active could just be the stress of the move. New house, new people, new smells, new food, new everything. Take it slow. the sooner he feels happy and secure the better it will be for his health. as long as he has a pool and you spray an area of the tank a couple of times a day that should be fine for his needs. Don’t make the whole tank wet though, leave him a dry area. TD.x. |
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| 08/06/12 07:02am |
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Ynevar View Profile |
Message To: TwilightDreamer1979 In reference to Message Id: 2275761 Surprise! We have a CWD!!!
I am patiently (rather impatiently I should say) waiting for him to go pooh. I talked to one of my very experienced herp friends and she suggested waiting a week for him to readjust before I do the fecals as his stress levels might make for higher counts that when he is not un-stressed his body may fight off and the numbers would be lower. I think that makes sense and honestly I think he does need a little time before I start putting medication syringes near his mouth, were he to have high levels of parasites anyway. I know right now he just needs to build trust and get settled. OH Stanley POOHED just poohed in his pool! I am half tempted to run a fecal on it just for curiosity sake. Tempting.... (HA... you know you love your reptiles when you want to play with their pooh!) HA!!!! At least I know he is not impacted... If I see just a few, then I know he will likely improve with less stress. If I see tons I will know at least what meds to have on hand. I already have Albon, Toltrazuril and Panacur. We tried to give him two small crickets in a feeding tub last night and he was NOT interested AT all. Dubias on the other hand he will chow on. I purchased 500 small dubia to see how my beardies would do with them before I started a colony. Lo and behold all three dragons LOVE them. I just pray I can get over my fear of the big bugs. LOL I figured I can, I got over my cricket fear--I can get over the dubia fear. So now... i think I will just have to order some more feeders. I was just going to start the colony and wait. But with Stanley not eating any crickets (I don’t blame him, he was under cricket attack 24/7 for who knows how long! I am just amazed he didn’t have any sores from them nipping at him lucky baby. I have seen what terrible sores can happen from crickets left in tanks) He had pinheads crawling all over him... poor guy... I am going to see about getting some Phoenix worms, silkworms and has anyone fed them micro supers? I know they have a higher fat content but was thinking it might be a good treat for this guy. I won’t try to rub or pick his shed. I did put some warm water on it with a soft cloth and gently wiped it. (NOT scrubbed) I also put a tiny dab of olive oil on it too. I hope that was okay. We were so happy last night that the green is moving down into his tail!!!! YAY!!!! I am very curious if he is a boy or a girl... I hope we don’t have to do a name change or keep calling a girl Stanley LOL... I think that this lil guy KNEW that if he didn’t win over the big guy with the long hair that there was NO way he was staying here because my husband was like NO more lizards. I find it very cute that the cost for a fogger or waterfall "is not bad" but when I wanted something for mine it was just too much haahhaa... Maybe now he will understand. LOL I dunno... just joking around there. I am glad my husband has a lizard to love. Maybe he won’t think I am so strange for being in love with my beardies. They are like my babies. LOL I gutload all my feeders with good chow and fresh food. I don’t feed them anything I wouldn’t feed my dragons. I am growing my own alfalfa plants and smooth turnip greens for my beardies too. I will offer Stanley the fresh veggies every day because I am preparing 2 other dishes of greens, why not 3. If he eats some then great, if not then no big deal. We dropped the dubias into the dish of greens and squash the other day, that seemed to help keep them from wanting to wander and gave Stanley time to eat them before they ran off. He is moving a lot more than when we first got him and WOW is he fast!!! I am off to see about buying a colony start for dubias, see if I can get some plants for him. Suggestions on getting plants online for vivariums. I live in Alaska so shipping will be crazy....Another reason why I’d want to start a colony, Shipping bugs in winter is going to be sketchy and if I don’t get one going NOW I’ll be stressing in mid winter. **Note I ran the fecal just for my curiosity sake. I see some unknown bug types in there. I am currently looking them up. My local vet is NOT a herp vet and actually doesn’t have access to the internet at the clinic, they took it away, apparently too many people at the vets were doing too much online so my vet can’t even look up parasites. That’s how he MISSED pinworms in my beardies. GAH! He did know coccidia though, which they both had... I am sure I brought them home with it from the pet store. I will run fecals again next week and am even considering buying a better microscope and one I can capture images on. That would be more helpful here with no herp vet I imagine. Thanks! |
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| 08/06/12 04:23pm |
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Ynevar View Profile |
Message To: Ynevar In reference to Message Id: 2275812
He was sitting with my husband today and suddenly bolted and took off across the living room. It was kind of scary I was like OMG he is FAST and I don’t want the dog or cat to go after him. It was a little unnerving for a second there. My husband quickly and gently got him from climbing up in the TV stand. The dog and cat didn’t even react it happened so fast. 
WOW... FAST FAST FAST!!!! That’s all I can say. I can TELL he is getting better because he is moving a lot more today and instead of being lethargic he moved like lightning! We are going fishing tomorrow and I am worried about them all. My daughter is going to come by and check on them and feed them some dubias. She loves feeding my beardies some mango. They crack her up... At any rate. I am so glad that Stanley is doing better. I think I’ll have a peek under his tail and see if I can see any pores or two bumps. |
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| 08/07/12 04:15am |
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TwilightDreamer1979 View Profile |
Message To: Ynevar In reference to Message Id: 2275870 Surprise! We have a CWD!!!
We started with 2 babies from different clutches which turned out to be male and female. after I got more confident with the whole reptile and bugs I decided I wanted something a little more of a challenge, so I bought a baby WD. Once they settle you can really see the differences between the species. oh they look different for sure, but beardies can’t run on 2 legs! That is amazing when they shoot off and up they go lol. As far as diet goes. For beardies and WD’s as babies and juvis - they need more protein (live foods) to enable them to grow FAST. For a beardie adult I believe the greens to live food ratio should be something like 50/50 where are as an adult WD should be 20/80. If you feed a beardie high fat foods, they get fat and it can impact on their health as it would a human. If you feed a WD a high fat diet they can get fat deposits build up in their eyes *gags* gross huh?! WD’s also require a higher Vitamin A intake than beardies do. so if you can gut load your roaches with foods that are higher in vitamin A, that would be a great benifit to your little guy. (carrots are a nice easy one) I can’t blame your little guy for not wanting to eat crickets! He’s probably sick of the sight of them. Roaches are an excellent staple for WD’s. I have trouble getting them over here (I’m in the UK) I use Locusts as my WD’s staple diet. I try to mix it up with Mario worms and waxies. I also dig up earth worms from my garden and give him the occasional defrosted pinky mouse I sometimes buy Butter worms, silk worms, cut worms and beetle grubs to help keep his diet varied. I have also found that he’s not keen on his greens, but he does like to eat a couple of peas and he also likes very thin slices of fresh apple and a little tiny bit of kiwi fruit (the vitamin C is supposed to aid the shedding process) Don’t sress too much about the shed on his head, that will come off in time. It will only be a problem if it’s struck to the tip of his tail or his toes. anywhere where it can restrict blood flow. I don’t have my WD out of his tank when our cat is around. I’m not sure who would win in a fight but I wouldn’t want either of them to get hurt so i just don’t risk it
It sound slike your little guy is settling down. I know it’s hard but leave him alone as much as possible. let him get used to the new tank and new house, then he can get used to you
TD.x. |
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| 08/07/12 08:16am |
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Ynevar View Profile |
Message To: TwilightDreamer1979 In reference to Message Id: 2275883 Surprise! We have a CWD!!!
We only took him out because he was going nuts on the glass. He sat quietly for about 15 minutes, happy to sit with my husband and then he took OFF! I think this lil one really needs a different enclosure, and next month finances will be a bit easier so we’ll take care of that then. I am going to have to have two feeder bins of dubias then, one for the beardies and one for Stanley. I am going to be ordering some Phoenix worms, silk worms and of course, more dubias. I just ordered 1000 more dubia feeders for him and my beardies. I will try various fruits with him and see what he eats. Thank you! |
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| 08/07/12 12:29pm |
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TwilightDreamer1979 View Profile |
Message To: Ynevar In reference to Message Id: 2275901 Surprise! We have a CWD!!!
I found WD’s to be more of a challenge. They’re slower to trust and harder to catch
It IS possible to train them, and train them well. My last WD "Killer" was very well trained *does proud mummy face*. He trusted and understood me, but it took a LOT of work. Watch your WD. Learn his little quirks and his personality, you’ll soon know if the glass dance is for "FEED ME!!" or for "LET ME OUT!" lol Keep us posted on your little one’s progress please, we love pics
TD.x. |
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| 08/08/12 06:31pm |
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Ynevar View Profile |
Message To: TwilightDreamer1979 In reference to Message Id: 2276075 Surprise! We have a CWD!!!
He is not a big eater, which makes me nervous... do they eat less than beardies? I think he wanted out, but had "had enough" and maybe he is still adjusting (I am sure he is) and will start being more relaxed and eating etc the way he should later. Just worried. Will resize some pics and post them in a bit. |
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| 08/08/12 09:47pm |
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Ynevar View Profile |
Message To: Ynevar In reference to Message Id: 2276109 Surprise! We have a CWD!!!
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7745252390/]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7745252390/]stanley5[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/54528314@N06/]ynevar[/url], on Flickr Dubia Time! He is really starting to CHOW on the dubias. How big can I go on them? I have been giving him 1/4 inch ones maybe 3/8. Is the rule same as beardies, distance between the eyes? I read something that read length of the head is the rule? [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7745240872/]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7745240872/]stanley1[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/54528314@N06/]ynevar[/url], on Flickr [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7745240948/]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7745240948/]stanley4[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/54528314@N06/]ynevar[/url], on Flickr Hubby is bravest to hold him while we clean his enclosure. He moves too fast for me. I snap pics LOL. He tried to run up my arm and it makes me a bit nervous. I guess I have to get used to him. [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7745241024/]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7745241024/]stanley3[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/54528314@N06/]ynevar[/url], on Flickr [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7745241088/]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/54528314@N06/7745241088/]stanley2[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/54528314@N06/]ynevar[/url], on Flickr He ate about 12 dubias today, which was the most he ate in one sitting so far. He is super cute... This guy is something else. Marcy |
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| 08/09/12 04:32am |
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Cphill58 View Profile |
Message To: Ynevar In reference to Message Id: 2276154 Surprise! We have a CWD!!!
This could be an area that you allow him in / on whilst you have time to supervise....just wait when he starts climbing curtains and the plants i see in the photos in the background ....lol Have you been to "beautiful dragons.com" Check out the food / nutrition chart for all the great veggies and fruits that are high in calcium...maybe , just maybe you can entice your little green friend into enjoying something special...grapes are a good treat I could list many more , but you already know about them since you have bearded dragons. Beautiful Dragons Good job ...he / she is very lucky to have you...! |
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| 08/09/12 04:59am |
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Ynevar View Profile |
Message To: Cphill58 In reference to Message Id: 2276158 Surprise! We have a CWD!!!
I understand they have a little different needs as far as food goes. He has no interest in crickets still. Which is fine with me, I’d just as soon phase crickets out as I get a dubia colony up and going. I just ordered 1,000 dubia and am going to be getting a breeding colony going as well. So I will have feeder tub and a breeder tub. What about superworms? I have read multiple care sheets that say they are good feeders for CWDs and need some advise on this. If they are okay to mix in as feeders I will order some. Do I get the small ones for a little one? That’s my gut instinct on it. Also he will not chase his food, yet. We have to put them in his dish so he’ll eat them, put the dish in front of him and he’ll eat the food. Once he is done he will run away. But I wrangle up the leftover dubias and feed them to him later and he will only eat the ones we put in his bowl. My husband was like, I don’t want him to just eat what is in his bowl he needs to go after his food... I was like, I just want him to eat. Then we can work on where he eats. LOL (Typical mom/dad reaction right?) I am trying various fruits and veggies. I use the Beautiful Dragon link religiously for my beardies (that is so helpful!) Thank you though, had I not known about it, I would have just loved the resource! I am going to see if I can cook some butternut squash and see if he’ll try it. If not the beardies will love it. They eat theirs raw and grated. We get a lot of fruit etc so I will keep trying different ones that are okay for them and see if one strikes his fancy. I also read to feed them meal worms. Which I don’t feed my beardies because of the high chitin ratio. I don’t know if the danger of impaction is the same with these guys? If I can feed him small mealies that would be another food source for him. I went to order silk worms but Mulberry is out temporarily. I will order them as soon as they get them. Also will order some Phoenix worms as well as even if he doesn’t like them, my beardies will devour them. I have been considering breeding supers if Stanley can eat them. I also wondered about earthworms. Is he too small to eat them now? I get so scared of giving him the wrong food, but feel like he needs to eat. I am so happy he at so much yesterday, as I have been just worried. Not sure where to get them, too worried to dig them up here??? how would I be sure that all the parasites etc are out of them? Scary to me... He is going pooh regularly in his water bowl, which I am sanitizing with the professional cleaner from beardeddragon.co, rinsing out and then refilling with bottled water (not distilled). Okay can’t wait to get the info from you guys. |
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| 08/09/12 11:16am |
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Cphill58 View Profile |
Message To: Ynevar In reference to Message Id: 2276202 Surprise! We have a CWD!!!
He was about 5-6 years old and was easily able to swallow an adult mouse. So the worms were not a concern if fed in moderation. I had a pesticide free garden and a composting box which I plucked juicy earthworms from and other grubs which he ate as well. I used live fish , but was advised not too, So today I recommend frozen thawed SAN FRANCISCO BAY "silversides" I fed CAN O SNAILS but those were expensive. He never ate his veggies but I could syringe some butternut baby food to him now and again. Worms are fatty treats ...stick to the Dubia and Discoid roaches , I raise Discoid , virtually the same creature, just slightly bigger and I was given a small colony some years ago ...they are prolific breeders/ feeders. To stimulate the roaches to breed I use banana and oranges 2x a week in the tubs...they will eat everything including the peel within 24 hrs. What isn’t gone within that time I will remove. I do cut the orange in 1/2 and peel the banana.I keep a small 8 watt zoom med UTH under each tub to produce a hot spot of 100-102F then they can thermo regulate via the egg carton. I also feed all the greens our iggy and dragons do not eat to the roaches daily and a generic cat food dry product. I do recommend a large variety of food items and according to my vet even the occasional wild grass hopper won’t poison the guy....it takes many occurrences for the toxins to build up to dangerous levels. If they even carry any pesticide residue. I doubt that many folks up there are spraying...I was in Atlin, BC and White Horse Yukon for a spell. I miss it very much...went to Skagway 1x too. Anything the bearded dragon can eat so can the WD |
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| 08/10/12 11:27am |
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TwilightDreamer1979 View Profile |
Message To: Cphill58 In reference to Message Id: 2276350 Surprise! We have a CWD!!!
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| 08/25/12 07:20pm |
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Surprise! We have a CWD!!! 
